Is Tavares an automatic choice for the PK

[Battle Lin]

i dont think babcock employs a 4C that doesn't PK.....hyman, brown, kapanen, our 4C, and johnsson should be our top 5 PK forwards

 

[rent free]

NO. The only automatic choices are hyman, kapanen and brown.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Don't think they will want #91 blocking shots on the PK.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Wonder why Kadri never gets any PK time. You'd think with Babs using him as a shutdown/matchup centre and our lack of centres who kill penalties he'd get more of a prominent place on the pk.

 

[Rielly4]

Hyman-Brown
Hainsey-Zaitsev

Lindholm-Kapanen
Rielly-Holl/Dermott

If Holl makes it he is a great option. If not we may need to use Dermott over Rosen. Not sure on Oz or Borgmans ability to PK.

 

[ACC1224]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Tavares replace Kadri on the PP and Kadri become the #1 Penalty Killer.

 

[mapleleafs34]

no, I'd rather our 11 million dollar man isn't out there blocking shooting lines

If 2 of the top 3 players on Boston are out there killing penalties every game, then so can John Tavares.

 

[Trapper]

5 on 5, PK, PP options this year = unlimited.
Good problem to have.

 

[Mess]

The key to a good PK is having a centre on them that can win draws allowing your team gain possession and ice the puck and kill the clock.

The problem Leafs have presently is that none of their current 1-3 C are currently assigned PK duties.

So it will be interesting to see how Babcock addresses this and who will see PK duty as a result.

 

[ottomaddox]

With all due respect, I don't see us winning many faceoffs. I sure hope these potential 4th line C's can help us with that.

How is J.T. at faceoffs? Perhaps it might not hurt to have him in there for less than a min.

 

[biotk]

The key to a good PK is having a centre on them that can win draws allowing your team gain possession and ice the puck and kill the clock.

This can't be the key to having a good PK, because as I have already shown there is no correlation between winning faceoffs on the PK and having a good PK (if anything the correlation is negative). This is old-style thinking which is wrong, and which Toronto will hopefully continue to completely ignore.

 

[biotk]

With all due respect, I don't see us winning many faceoffs. I sure hope these potential 4th line C's can help us with that.

How is J.T. at faceoffs? Perhaps it might not hurt to have him in there for less than a min.

Why? What evidence is there to support your PK faceoff fetish?

 

[kk87]

I don't think it makes much sense to ever rely on top offensive players to kill penalties, maybe with a couple exceptions (Toews, Bergeron, Kopitar, etc). Whether he's good at it or not, that's ice time being spent in the defensive zone trying to weather the storm instead of generating chances. Doesn't seem like a good way of optimizing elite talent

 

[Mess]

This can't be the key to having a good PK, because as I have already shown there is no correlation between winning faceoffs on the PK and having a good PK (if anything the correlation is negative). This is old-style thinking which is wrong, and which Toronto will hopefully continue to completely ignore.

You don't think a team like Boston has a top PK because Patrice Bergeron is on it or LA because Kopitar is on it?

Really ??

The Selke trophy as the best 2-way players in the game play key roles defensively including PK to help their teams win games.

JT played a lot of PK in NY and so this thread is legit in terms of having a player strong in the FO dot assists killing off penalties.

 

[crump]

Lotsa suckas to take draws. Lol

 

[ottomaddox]

Why? What evidence is there to support your PK faceoff fetish?

There's plenty: I subscribe to faceoff magazine, I watch faceoffs on YouTube, I have a secret faceoff dungeon in my basement, I run a faceoff clinic for disenfranchised /inner city youth, and I changed my name (legally) to Faceoff.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Bruins ability to keep teams honest on their PP intrigues me.

Even if we start the PK with Tavares and or Matthews to scare teams from playing a full offense PP. Then run them into the ground with Brown/Hyman.

Tavares or Matthews // Kapenen or Johnsson ( Depending on who is fresh)

Then
Hyman // Brown for the last half against teams 2nd unit or tired first unit

 

[Liminality]

You don't think a team like Boston has a top PK because Patrice Bergeron is on it or LA because Kopitar is on it?

Really ??

The Selke trophy as the best 2-way players in the game play key roles defensively including PK to help their teams win games.

JT played a lot of PK in NY and so this thread is legit in terms of having a player strong in the FO dot assists killing off penalties.

Like I showed before Tavares only started to PK for the NYI two seasons ago. Before that he maybe averaged 8 seconds of PK time per game since he was drafted.
Hyman is our best PKer and he has around a 41% for SH faceoffs. Komarov had 55% and I'd say he was a worse PKer than Hyman.

 

[Mess]

Like I showed before Tavares only started to PK for the NYI two seasons ago. Before that he maybe averaged 8 seconds of PK time per game since he was drafted.
Hyman is our best PKer and he has around a 41% for SH faceoffs. Komarov had 55% and I'd say he was a worse PKer than Hyman.

I think Kadri bumped down the depth chart is more likely now to get increased PK time to up his ATOI, particularly if his new role is checking/shutdown C.

Hyman, Brown, Kadri and perhaps Kappy being the top 4 Leaf forwards on the PK unless Freddy G makes the team as a 4th line C.

 

[Liminality]

I think Kadri bumped down the depth chart is more likely now to get increased PK time to up his ATOI, particularly if his new role is checking/shutdown C.

Hyman, Brown, Kadri and perhaps Kappy being the top 4 Leaf forwards on the PK unless Freddy G makes the team as a 4th line C.

I wouldn't mind that set up on the PK. It's not a new role at EV though, he's been tasked to shut down lines the past two seasons I believe.

 

[Mess]

I wouldn't mind that set up on the PK. It's not a new role at EV though, he's been tasked to shut down lines the past two seasons I believe.

Right, and he is likely going to be flanked with players like Brown/Kappy on the RW side and that makes for a perfect PK pair to toss out there.

Uncle Leo was #2 among Leaf forwards on the PK last year and someone is going to have to replace that role and it would be more logical that the JT -- Marner line used offensively and Kadri utilized more defensively.

 

[biotk]

You don't think a team like Boston has a top PK because Patrice Bergeron is on it or LA because Kopitar is on it?

You are now saying something completely different. Bergeron and Kopitar are great penalty killers. Kopitar won 49% of his faceoffs on the PK this year (the same percentage of the rest of his team on the PK). The year before Kopitar won 42% of his faceoffs on the PK (way worse than the rest of his team on the PK). Bergeron won 58% of his last season, but only 47% of the faceoffs the year before (when Boston's PK was better).

Bergeron and Kopitar being good at PK has really nothing to do with faceoffs. As I said there is no correlation between teams winning faceoffs and having a good PK. Here are the last two years with teams ranked by the best faceoff percentage on the PK compared to their rank at actually killing penalties:

2018 2017

Team	FO	PK		Team	FO	PK
BUF	1	22		ANA	1	4
CAR	2	24		COL	2	29
DAL	3	14		BUF	3	25
BOS	4	3		CAR	4	6
WAS	5	15		OTT	5	21
LAK	6	1		NSH	6	15
PIT	7	17		MIN	7	8
TOR	8	11		VAN	8	28
PHI	9	29		WSH	9	7
CBJ	10	26		BOS	10	1
ANA	11	5		STL	11	3
SJS	12	2		DET	12	16
VAN	13	21		CAL	13	12
OTT	14	27		NJD	14	23
WPG	15	9		PHI	15	22
DET	16	23		MON	16	14
EDM	17	25		FLA	17	2
CHI	18	20		DAL	18	30
VGK	19	10		TBL	19	13
STL	20	18		NYI	20	11
NSH	21	6		TOR	21	10
NYI	22	31		ARI	22	27
NYR	23	12		CBJ	23	9
ARI	24	19		WPG	24	26
NJD	25	7		LAK	25	5
MIN	26	13		EDM	26	17
FLA	27	16		PIT	27	20
MON	28	30		CHI	28	24
CAL	29	8		SJS	29	18
TBL	30	28		NYR	30	19
COL	31	4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

There is no correlation. On occasion there is a team that both strong at winning faceoffs and killing penalties but that is only because their best penalty killers happen to also be good at faceoffs.​

The Selke trophy as the best 2-way players in the game play key roles defensively including PK to help their teams win games.

Again faceoffs are irrelevant to this. Kopitar won the Selke this year - sub 50% on PK faceoffs. Bergeron won the previous year - sub 50% on PK faceoffs. Kopitar won it the previous year - sub 50% on PK faceoffs.

They won it because they were great 2-way players.

JT played a lot of PK in NY and so this thread is legit in terms of having a player strong in the FO dot assists killing off penalties.

He did play a lot on the PK the last two years. Sub 50% both years. The question is - Was Tavares on the PK because that was the best use of him? Did he make the PK stronger? Or was he on the PK because of old-style thinking that you need a C to win faceoffs? Because the last reason is completely bogus. It is also bogus to think that you need Cs to win faceoffs. Last year wingers took 79% of the Leafs faceoffs and they won a much higher percentage of faceoffs than Toronto did the year before when they had Cs taking the majority of faceoffs (and yes - the wingers specifically won a much higher percentage of faceoffs on the PK than the Cs did the year before).

New thinking is what the Leafs need. Last year they went with two forwards - one righty and one lefty with whichever one was on their strong side taking the faceoff. It worked. It works to send your best penalty killers out there. It worked so well that when Plek was brought in he didn't take many faceoffs on the PK, and half of his games with the Leafs they didn't use him to kill penalties at all (generally only when Komarov was injured).

The Leafs should continue to ditch bad old-style thinking.
You don't need Cs on the PK
Cs are not the only forwards who can win faceoffs. It is a skill that can be learned regardless of position.
Go righty/lefty with the strong side taking it (as they do with Matthews/Nylander at ES)
Most teams only put high-level Cs on the PK because they need to give them more ice time.
By the time Datsyuk won his last Selke he was down to 8th in PK ice time among Wings forwards (and probably only played the PK at all because there was much more of it at that time).
Solve the Matthews/Tavares/Kadri ice-time dilemma by going with 11F instead of wasting their talents on the PK.

 

[Dayjobdave]

#preciousankle

 

[7even]

I'd prefer they not waste hyman on the pk... He has the hardest job on the team and is the most overworked. Imagine him fully rested during the pk and completely fresh to hunt down pucks offensively.

He's not wasted, his PK stats are great. Taking him off the PK would be a net detriment imo.

 

[7even]

Bruins ability to keep teams honest on their PP intrigues me.

Even if we start the PK with Tavares and or Matthews to scare teams from playing a full offense PP. Then run them into the ground with Brown/Hyman.

Tavares or Matthews // Kapenen or Johnsson ( Depending on who is fresh)

Then
Hyman // Brown for the last half against teams 2nd unit or tired first unit

Johnsson and Kapanen both can PK and threaten odd-man rushes. Hell, throw Hyman in there too. I think they really add a dimension to our PK that not many teams have