Toggle sidebar

Is Tampa cooked?

Tamps isn’t cooked. They’re burnt. IMO Cooper is moving on. He sees the downfall and is jumping ship.
 
Mr Nogatco said:
Yeah probably should have specified mid playoff team.. obviously they aren’t truly mediocre in the context of the full 32 team field
Click to expand...

A mid playoff team can win the cup while a great regular season team can lose in the first round (think 2023 Bruins). The NHL playoffs are crazy that way. It's not like the NBA.

This is primarily why I wouldn't blow things up if I'm Brisebois. Slight retool maybe.
 
Honestly reading the injuries they might have a few more seasons they could go on a run on.

Bjorkstrand: (too complicated to write)
Cirelli: MCL Sprain Game 1
Glendening: AC Joint separation
Gourde: Broke a finger Game 1
Hagel: Concussion
Hedman: Broke foot Game 4
Kucherov: Suffered an injury in Feb he was managing
Paul: Tear in left wrist
 
Most likely not a top-tier contender (FLA, TOR, CAR, WSH?) but if they make the playoffs and then have an advantageous matchup they could still go for a deep run. Nobody ever has a walk in the park against the reigning Cup champs in their prime and this postseason for them was unfortunately nothing different. Their pieces are still very solid though, at least from a regular season perspective, and there is still longevity to be had with the key guys:

Kuch: 31 y/o, 2 years left, Hart-nominated season (#1 RW)
Point: 29 y/o, 3 years left, 82 point season (#1 C)
Hagel: 26 y/o, 90 points, 3 years left (#1 LW)
Guentzel: 30, 80 points, 3 years left (#2 LW)
Cirelli: 27, 59 points and Selke nominated season, 3 years left (#2 C)
Bjorkstrand: 30, 46 points, 1 year left (3rd W)
Paul: 30, 41 points, 3 years left (#3 C)

Hedman: 34, 3 years left, 66 points (~#1D)
McDonagh/ Cernak: Ryan's getting older but they're still an elite shutdown duo
Raddysh: 29, 37 points, 1 year left, PP2 (probably want to upgrade him but still viable offensively)

Vasi: 30, 3 years left, 37-20-5 (still #1 G)
 
Yes. Imo the Lightning are on a series downward trend. They still have some really good players, albeit older, and should get into the top three in their division. But their window for winning another Cup is closed.
 
Yeah, their Cup window with their current roster is completely closed now.

Roster isn't good enough to win a Cup currently, and they're only getting older. Not only are they getting older, but they have much more tread on their tires than their ages show due to the numerous and long playoff runs they've had.

One of the worst farm systems in the entire league, especially since you can now write off Howard. And no first round picks in the next three drafts.

They might make the playoffs as an A3 or one of the WCs over the next season or two, but then they're going to be at the bottom of the standings for years.

If the GM was smart, he'd start selling off what he could this summer. But I doubt ownership wants to wave the white flag yet considering they just made the playoffs.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Crunchrulz
JTToilinginToronto said:
Yeah, their Cup window with their current roster is completely closed now.

Roster isn't good enough to win a Cup currently, and they're only getting older. Not only are they getting older, but they have much more tread on their tires than their ages show due to the numerous and long playoff runs they've had.

One of the worst farm systems in the entire league, especially since you can now write off Howard. And no first round picks in the next three drafts.

They might make the playoffs as an A3 or one of the WCs over the next season or two, but then they're going to be at the bottom of the standings for years.

If the GM was smart, he'd start selling off what he could this summer. But I doubt ownership wants to wave the white flag yet considering they just made the playoffs.
Click to expand...
this is such a brain dead take, ah yes sell what we can now when we don't have any picks to take advantage of tanking. don't look at our countless nmc/ntc's

one of the wild cards? we were one of the top teams in goals scored/goals against and we're running literally the exact same roster back with an extra $10 mil to spend on our depth players

unless we get completely f***ed with injuries what reason is their to believe that we won't be competing for the top of the division next year again?
 
creg said:
this is such a brain dead take, ah yes sell what we can now when we don't have any picks to take advantage of tanking. don't look at our countless nmc/ntc's

one of the wild cards? we were one of the top teams in goals scored/goals against and we're running literally the exact same roster back with an extra $10 mil to spend on our depth players

unless we get completely f***ed with injuries what reason is their to believe that we won't be competing for the top of the division next year again?
Click to expand...
Why would I be bullish on the Lightning going forward?

The Tampa Bay goal differential has been carried by superstar Nikita Kucherov over the past three seasons as he's been in his career peak.

But despite having Kuch in his peak, over the past three seasons, the Lightning have been first round exits.

Now the Tampa core is getting older and Kuch probably isn't going to be as productive as he has been in '22-'25. Hedman is turning 35. Basically anyone of note on Tampa other than Point and Hagel is on the wrong side of 30.

There is no notable help coming from the Tampa farm and there are no good futures for Tampa to trade for help.

There are numerous up-and-coming teams in the Atlantic with young cores and assets to trade to improve their teams.

But yeah, sure. The future looks good for the Lightning, okay, lol.
 
JTToilinginToronto said:
Why would I be bullish on the Lightning going forward?

The Tampa Bay goal differential has been carried by superstar Nikita Kucherov over the past three seasons as he's been in his career peak.

But despite having Kuch in his peak, over the past three seasons, the Lightning have been first round exits.

Now the Tampa core is getting older and Kuch probably isn't going to be as productive as he has been in '22-'25. Hedman is turning 35. Basically anyone of note on Tampa other than Point and Hagel is on the wrong side of 30.

There is no notable help coming from the Tampa farm and there are no good futures for Tampa to trade for help.

There are numerous up-and-coming teams in the Atlantic with young cores and assets to trade to improve their teams.

But yeah, sure. The future looks good for the Lightning, okay, lol.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying the future looks bright but the idea that we're going to be sliding to fighting over a WC spot is not based in reality.

You say wrong side of 30 but Guentzel & Vasy are both exactly 30, Point, Hagel, Cirelli, Cernak, are all late 20's. There is 0 reason to believe that Kucherov won't continue to be a driving force in our offense for years to come, he's literally a consecutive art ross winner what part of his game is slowing down? McDonagh just had one of the best defensive seasons of his career and if Tampa can get some support on the backend, which is expected this off-season, you can put Hedman is a position to play a more complementary role without having to give him all of the brutal 1D starts.

Yeah obviously we're going to have to rebuild, once Hedman retires unless the bolts can somehow swing a top free agent D or get unbelievably lucky it's probably over, but that is still at least 2+ years away.

The idea that we should sell everything we can is so off-base it makes me question if you have literally any clue about how the sport/rebuilds operates?
 
creg said:
I'm not saying the future looks bright but the idea that we're going to be sliding to fighting over a WC spot is not based in reality.
Click to expand...
Why not? Tampa was 4 points out of the A3 and 5 points out of WC1 literally this season. A whole 2 and 2.5 wins respectively. And that was with another MVP season out of Kuch.

And it's not like Tampa is this young, up-coming team with a great farm that you would expect to keep climbing up the standings. Quite the opposite.

creg said:
There is 0 reason to believe that Kucherov won't continue to be a driving force in our offense for years to come, he's literally a consecutive art ross winner what part of his game is slowing down?
Click to expand...
32 years old and 800+ career games. Eventually father time and wear-and-tear comes for everyone. He's not going to be producing 100+ point seasons forever and historically, players do start seeing steeper declines beginning at the age range Kuch is entering.
1746244808121.webp


creg said:
I

The idea that we should sell everything we can is so off-base it makes me question if you have literally any clue about how the sport/rebuilds operates?
Click to expand...
I do. I said it probably won't happen in reality, but it should happen if the GM was smart.

Now, I have a question for you. Why are you bullish on a team that has had three consecutive first round exits, has a ton of wear-and-tear, is getting older and has no good futures to call up or trade?
 
No.

Each season getting a little older doesn't help. But if they can add some physical players, I don't see why not.

Yes, Vasy, Kuch, and Point fell well below expectations this season, and Kuch has been on a bad run. But I refuse to say a team with the experience of winning it and this level of talent is cooked.

Things are harder going forward, but a few extra pieces could change things into their favor for the playoffs.

It's closing in on the end of their run, but I'm not willing to say it's over for this group yet. Injuries happen to every team, every season, and I think the Bolts fell victim to these particularly hard this year based on that list.

Next season without the injuries in the playoffs and a couple of bigger and physical guys? No reason to think that isn't a potential Cup winning team.
 
JTToilinginToronto said:
Now, I have a question for you. Why are you bullish on a team that has had three consecutive first round exits, has a ton of wear-and-tear, is getting older and has no good futures to call up or trade?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say that I'm bullish, but I don't see any reason to believe that Tampa won't be contending for top of the division again next year. Especially considering that it's likely that both Florida & Toronto both take steps back based on what they're losing this off-season.

Kucherov will still likely breeze past 100 points for next two seasons and even if he does take a step back both Cirelli & Hagel have become great scorers in their own right.

Yeah I mean three first round exits is not good but if we're being realistic only two of those rosters were actually remotely trying to be competitive, with the Toronto series being a case of Vasy shitting the bed and this year being mired with injuries and unable to overcome Florida's top-end defense smothering our top players. If you can get some favorable seeding and get decent enough injury luck I don't see why this team couldn't go on a run.

Since you're the genius, could you actually tell me who you think the Bolts should be selling off? Although my assumption is that you have 0 clue of the various trade protections we have right now. What good would it be to move players to get what will likely be late draft picks when we don't even own our own draft picks for the next two years?
 
creg said:
Since you're the genius, could you actually tell me who you think the Bolts should be selling off?
Click to expand...
Whichever players they are able to. I mean obviously if a player has trade protection and refuses to waive, than it is what it is. But I'd move the players with value who would waive.

You play to win a Cup. If a team is aging out of a Cup window, which I believe Tampa has based on the numerous reasons I've presented in previous posts, it's time to start building the next Cup contending team, especially when you can cash in on valuable pieces.

Yearly first round exits is just a waste of time unless you have young players on the roster who you should expect to improve going forward. Tampa doesn't have that.

creg said:
we don't even own our own draft picks for the next two years?
Click to expand...

Sunk cost fallacy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Crunchrulz
JTToilinginToronto said:
Whichever players they are able to. I mean obviously if a player has trade protection and refuses to waive, than it is what it is. But I'd move the players with value who would waive.

You play to win a Cup. If a team is aging out of a Cup window, which I believe Tampa has based on the numerous reasons I've presented in previous posts, it's time to start building the next Cup contending team, especially when you can cash in on valuable pieces.

Yearly first round exits is just a waste of time unless you have young players on the roster who you should expect to improve going forward. Tampa doesn't have that.



Sunk cost fallacy.
Click to expand...
if the way you think we should rebuild is to move everyone without trade protection for late 1sts and mid prospects while we're stuck with the bones of a team that will likely be too mid to bottom out (due to all the players with ntc/nmc) then I think it's truly amazing that you haven't been hired in an nhl front office.
 
creg said:
if the way you think we should rebuild is to move everyone without trade protection for late 1sts and mid prospects while we're stuck with the bones of a team that will likely be too mid to bottom out (due to all the players with ntc/nmc) then I think it's truly amazing that you haven't been hired in an nhl front office.
Click to expand...
Yeah, crazy to think of things from an asset-management perspective.

Well, have fun with a few more years of first round exits then a rebuild starting from complete scratch with nothing in the farm.

Doesn't sound fun to me, but what do I know I guess.
 
JTToilinginToronto said:
Yeah, crazy to think of things from an asset-management perspective.

Well, have fun with a few more years of first round exits then a rebuild starting from complete scratch with nothing in the farm.

Doesn't sound fun to me, but what do I know I guess.
Click to expand...
Are the players on our roster going to die in the off-season? just move them then, coincidentally when all of their nmc's/ntc's open up! crazy concept!

you're the expert though, just try not to think to deeply about any of your yapping
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

  • ... and 1 more.
    • Total: 7 (members: 6, guests: 1)

    Latest posts

    Ad

    Ad

    Top Bottom