Is Ryan Johansen going to be a problem???

[Nordique]

My life experience has generally found this to be true, BUT a young person can suddenly have an epiphany and still reach their potential.

Young players who have recently become dads are one example (can't wait to see where the thread goes from HERE!)

I've been coaching youth soccer for 6 years. Some of the best players I've had, had to be motivated repeatedly. Its frustrating, and if it gains momentum it can bring the team down. I really thought Joey was dialed in down the stretch. Thats a good sign, that the playoff run got him fired up, now he has to find consistency for a full season of play. He's not unlike some of the kids in EDM and COL in that respect. I like how JK and Todd handled it, send him down to correct the attitude. A strong locker room will help too.

As for children. Well, it made a bigger difference in my life and career than I can measure. Its huge. Maturity can come from other events in your life as well.

 

[Palinka]

"I really don't care if he was unhappy".

Perfect answer by Jarmo. This really might be different than the 2 previous GMs who never held anyone accountable.

That second part is completely untrue. The difference is that the previous two GMs preferred to do it behind closed doors.

 

[Palinka]

There are two people for whom I have more respect through all of this. Jarmo and Todd Richards. At times I thought Richards was being a little unfair to Joey. Not anymore.

I like Todd Richards. He's a career minor league defenseman who would have killed for a chance to sustain an NHL career even on the third pairing, and never got that chance. He's tough on guys who come up and don't have that same type of single-minded dedication; he has the idea that a player is free to do what he wants off the ice, but there will be serious hell to pay if he doesn't put in a full effort night in and night out.

 

[Palinka]

When a player has to be continously prodded to perform, that is a character flaw that in most cases cannot be corrected.

I disagree strongly. Nearly every player needs some type of continual prodding, whether today or 20 years ago or 50 years ago.

 

[blahblah]

That second part is completely untrue. The difference is that the previous two GMs preferred to do it behind closed doors.

I think the definitions of accountability are different between you and others on this board. I will say the front office started to give the appearance of accountability more toward the end of Howson's tenure, even if it was difficult to pick out in the first part.

There were obvious differences between Hitch and Howson evidenced by top prospects that were sitting on the roster not playing instead of being down in the AHL on a couple of occasions. I'm also aware of differing opinions on the handling of Mason.

 

[Palinka]

I think the definitions of accountability are different between you and others on this board. I will say the front office started to give the appearance of accountability more toward the end of Howson's tenure, even if it was difficult to pick out in the first part.

There were obvious differences between Hitch and Howson evidenced by top prospects that were sitting on the roster not playing instead of being down in the AHL on a couple of occasions. I'm also aware of differing opinions on the handling of Mason.

To your first paragraph, it's not in Scott Howson's nature to feel that he has to justify or explain himself to anyone who doesn't outrank him. I don't know if you've met him or not, but he's not exactly known as a people person, even to those who know him best. I do know of at least one person who, for the last 15 years, has referred to him as "Spock Howson".

To the second part, it happens. By the very nature of their position, GMs have to handle certain things that the coaches simply cannot and will not tolerate. In the case of Columbus with Russian players, it wasn't just Filatov and Zherdev who there were issues with, it was Guskov, Plekhanov, and the overage players (Subbotin, Kosmachev). There's continual strife with mid-level prospects and their agents, with high-level prospects and their various representatives, and so on. It happens around the league; even immaculate Detroit isn't immune from constantly having to engage in this circus act.

I will say that I believe it's a major reason that you don't see successful coach/GM any more. There are way too many things that a GM has to do that inherently must be separate from what a coach can do.

 

[blahblah]

To your first paragraph, it's not in Scott Howson's nature to feel that he has to justify or explain himself to anyone who doesn't outrank him. I don't know if you've met him or not, but he's not exactly known as a people person, even to those who know him best. I do know of at least one person who, for the last 15 years, has referred to him as "Spock Howson".

Thankfully I never asked Howson to justify himself. He certainly wouldn't have liked it if I had gotten a hold of him in a STH event because that is exactly what I would have asked him to do. Well actually if you know me, more actually demanded it. Part of the reason I never really went to this things is that I don't tolerate being placated.

I only base my opinion(s) on observation. That feeds into how I would respond to the rest of our post. If I have a difficult time, through observation, judging through observation I will be skeptical of your response.

Looking at the organization as a whole and the way we did things up until the last year of Howson's tenure, I have a difficult time supporting the opinion that accountability was prevalent through the entire organization.

The people person aspect isn't really relevant.

None of this is really relevant in Johansen discussions, so I'll bow out of this line of discussion now. Feel free to add if you like, but I won't respond - so don't take in-answer as agreement.

 

[db2011]

My life experience has generally found this to be true, BUT a young person can suddenly have an epiphany and still reach their potential.

Young players who have recently become dads are one example (can't wait to see where the thread goes from HERE!)

well, I'm sure most of you have noticed the quality of my posts steadily increasing, and I give all credit to my 9 month old daughter.



(of course, I'm about Vinny's age so my career would have phased out by now...)

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

None of this is really relevant in Johansen discussions

There's a whole crapload of stuff in here that's not relevant to the thread topic. Apparently, the entire forum needs some prodding to perform to its capabilities. Let's hope it's not a character flaw that can't be corrected.

 

[EDM]

Last week I had lunch with a CBJ high ranking person to discuss another matter. The CBJ official said that the entire tone of the franchise has been turned upside down by JD. The official said JD in a very personal in-your-face- kind of way has sent a clear, unmistakeable message that everyone will be held immediately accountable for the way they perform their responsibilities. He sent shock waves thru the whole organization.

 

[Fro]

Last week I had lunch with a CBJ high ranking person to discuss another matter. The CBJ official said that the entire tone of the franchise has been turned upside down by JD. The official said JD in a very personal in-your-face- kind of way has sent a clear, unmistakeable message that everyone will be held immediately accountable for the way they perform their responsibilities. He sent shock waves thru the whole organization.

that agrees with everything I've been told as well...great to hear...

 

[JACKETfan]

When a player has to be continously prodded to perform, that is a character flaw that in most cases cannot be corrected.

well, I'm sure most of you have noticed the quality of my posts steadily increasing, and I give all credit to my 9 month old daughter.



(of course, I'm about Vinny's age so my career would have phased out by now...)

You should let your baby post more often.

 

[IBleedUnionBlue]

Not worried about it. He's still a kid. Don't know what happened to earn him a scratch. But he will be fine.

 

[Sethis]

Speaking as an Oilers fan who is watching this story with scavenger's eyes, this should not turn you on any prospect. Mark Messier at the same age was a total headcase rock star that these boards would have hated, and he turned out just fine.

The number one rule for any fanbase should be 'don't eat your young.'

 

[pete goegan]

This question and answer appears in the interview with Jarmo regarding the draft:

CBJ.COM: Does a tight, exciting Memorial Cup like this year’s tournament give you a better look at players, or is the sample size too small?

JK: “For me, this is sort of like a bonus round opportunity to see these guys play. The scouts have done the work, will continue to do the work and put the lists together as we move forward. They’ve seen these guys play all year long, so this is just another chance to see these kids play in a pressure situation and in meaningful games. You see if the character rises to the top, where some guys take charge and make a difference. It’s another look at them, and with me joining in February, half the season’s already been played if not more…but this gives me an extended period to see what the scouts have been working for all year.â€

I could see the bolded quote factoring into his judgement of Johansen, as well. The AHL playoffs might have been a similar arena for analysis in terms of young players already in the system. As with the draft, one good or bad play shouldn't make too big a difference, but they can be added into the equation and provide useful information for evaluation.

 

[SuperGenius]

As usual, goegan is dead on.

Should be interesting to see how things go from here. Hopefully Joey has a clue that whatever he did, it wasn't acceptable and he needs to atone for it.

 

[Timeless Winter]

Last week I had lunch with a CBJ high ranking person to discuss another matter. The CBJ official said that the entire tone of the franchise has been turned upside down by JD. The official said JD in a very personal in-your-face- kind of way has sent a clear, unmistakeable message that everyone will be held immediately accountable for the way they perform their responsibilities. He sent shock waves thru the whole organization.

This is music to my ears. (or eyes, you know what I mean)

Makes me wonder what they were doing for 10+ years though.

 

[PubOFH]

I honestly was not trying to stir up any crap with my original post. I did notice what I though was an attitude problem from him in the first few games, and the practices I attended. I dont see a whole lot of passion from the kid. When I heard DD unable to say one good thing about him, it really had my radar going off. Now with his Minor League Playoff BUST, when he should have DOMINATED, I feel my gut was right.

I HOPE that he turns his attitude around. If he does not he WILL be traded. NO DOUBT IN MY MIND.

Obviously some around here are just like the old management teams and accept poor attitudes. I for one am happy as hell the new management is calling people out when they are turds.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Obviously some around here are just like the old management teams and accept poor attitudes. I for one am happy as hell the new management is calling people out when they are turds.

Yeah, Pub. Good call. Fans love malcontents and hate winning. In fact, now that you've pointed it out, I recognize this as a failure in myself, and am going to do what I can to rectify it.

I'm going to start right now by now by refusing to accept crap posting the likes of which you have foisted on us with the bit I've quoted. It's high time posters started accepting the fruits of their hard work in beginning a dialogue on a difficult subject without resorting to strawmen and hyperbole.

 

[db2011]

This question and answer appears in the interview with Jarmo regarding the draft:

CBJ.COM: Does a tight, exciting Memorial Cup like this year’s tournament give you a better look at players, or is the sample size too small?

JK: “For me, this is sort of like a bonus round opportunity to see these guys play. The scouts have done the work, will continue to do the work and put the lists together as we move forward. They’ve seen these guys play all year long, so this is just another chance to see these kids play in a pressure situation and in meaningful games. You see if the character rises to the top, where some guys take charge and make a difference. It’s another look at them, and with me joining in February, half the season’s already been played if not more…but this gives me an extended period to see what the scouts have been working for all year.â€

I could see the bolded quote factoring into his judgement of Johansen, as well. The AHL playoffs might have been a similar arena for analysis in terms of young players already in the system. As with the draft, one good or bad play shouldn't make too big a difference, but they can be added into the equation and provide useful information for evaluation.

As usual, goegan is dead on.

Should be interesting to see how things go from here. Hopefully Joey has a clue that whatever he did, it wasn't acceptable and he needs to atone for it.

sorry, I think IHeartZherdev's got Pete on this one. The bolded may apply to everyone but Prout and Joey, but we have seen those two play in a highly pressurized second half run that came down to the final game. I've no doubt Jarmo is disappointed in what transpired down there, but if he trades Joey because of a handful of minor league games rather than keeping Joey because of his major league effectiveness, I will be dumbfounded. I know, or at least I hope, no one really believes Johansen will be traded over the Springfield stint, but I think the odds of him being traded based on his performance (rather than as part of a better package) are laughably tiny.

I know it feels good to flame a player for seemingly not caring, but if Jarmo is as smart as many of us seem to think he is, he recognizes Johansen's contributions to the Jackets' run and recognizes that he is still a kid.

 

[PubOFH]

Yeah, Pub. Good call. Fans love malcontents and hate winning. In fact, now that you've pointed it out, I recognize this as a failure in myself, and am going to do what I can to rectify it.

I'm going to start right now by now by refusing to accept crap posting the likes of which you have foisted on us with the bit I've quoted. It's high time posters started accepting the fruits of their hard work in beginning a dialogue on a difficult subject without resorting to strawmen and hyperbole.

Glad you are man enough to admit your short comings.

 

[Fro]

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
Many questions about #CBJ Ryan Johansen since his benching by @TheFalconsAHL. Know the kid a bit, have talked to others in recent days ...

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
... and nobody is ready to pull the chute on him at this stage of his career. He's still young, still has a very bright future. This was ...

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
... the latest wake-up call. Johansen doesn't have a bad attitude, but he suffers an affliction many highly-talent athletes face at first.

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
That is, their "good" is good enough for them to be great players for much of their youth and early adulthood. But when they need to be ...

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
... "great" to be good enough, that's a big hurdle. It's troubling, perhaps, that he needs to continually be prodded. It's also human nature

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
... for many people who happen to be great at what they do. #CBJ trying to raise the bar throughout organization. That's not easy. But

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
... this is how it starts. He's answered the bell before, and most suspect he'll do so again. Not easy growing up in the public eye, eh?

 

[major major]

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
Many questions about #CBJ Ryan Johansen since his benching by @TheFalconsAHL. Know the kid a bit, have talked to others in recent days ...

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
... and nobody is ready to pull the chute on him at this stage of his career. He's still young, still has a very bright future. This was ...

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
... the latest wake-up call. Johansen doesn't have a bad attitude, but he suffers an affliction many highly-talent athletes face at first.

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
That is, their "good" is good enough for them to be great players for much of their youth and early adulthood. But when they need to be ...

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
... "great" to be good enough, that's a big hurdle. It's troubling, perhaps, that he needs to continually be prodded. It's also human nature

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
... for many people who happen to be great at what they do. #CBJ trying to raise the bar throughout organization. That's not easy. But

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
... this is how it starts. He's answered the bell before, and most suspect he'll do so again. Not easy growing up in the public eye, eh?

Great perspective from AP.

 

[db2011]

I honestly was not trying to stir up any crap with my original post. I did notice what I though was an attitude problem from him in the first few games, and the practices I attended. I dont see a whole lot of passion from the kid. When I heard DD unable to say one good thing about him, it really had my radar going off. Now with his Minor League Playoff BUST, when he should have DOMINATED, I feel my gut was right.

I HOPE that he turns his attitude around. If he does not he WILL be traded. NO DOUBT IN MY MIND.

Obviously some around here are just like the old management teams and accept poor attitudes. I for one am happy as hell the new management is calling people out when they are turds.

The point that IHZ made on like page 2 still stands- the kid was a key in the Jackets' season!!

Unless it's a trade as a part of a package, there is just NO WAY Joey gets traded this offseason. I.e., he's not getting shipped out because of the Springfield stint.

Yeah, Pub. Good call. Fans love malcontents and hate winning. In fact, now that you've pointed it out, I recognize this as a failure in myself, and am going to do what I can to rectify it.

I'm going to start right now by now by refusing to accept crap posting the likes of which you have foisted on us with the bit I've quoted. It's high time posters started accepting the fruits of their hard work in beginning a dialogue on a difficult subject without resorting to strawmen and hyperbole.

I guess it shouldn't be surprising that a thread of this nature would compel a fair amount of self-righteousness, but DSL come on. Plenty of fans support players with bad attitudes in this game. And to equate that the silly canard that fans like that "hate winning" implicates yourself in the very thing you're supposedly trying to rectify in yourself.

 

[pete goegan]

sorry, I think IHeartZherdev's got Pete on this one. The bolded may apply to everyone but Prout and Joey, but we have seen those two play in a highly pressurized second half run that came down to the final game. I've no doubt Jarmo is disappointed in what transpired down there, but if he trades Joey because of a handful of minor league games rather than keeping Joey because of his major league effectiveness, I will be dumbfounded. I know, or at least I hope, no one really believes Johansen will be traded over the Springfield stint, but I think the odds of him being traded based on his performance (rather than as part of a better package) are laughably tiny.

I know it feels good to flame a player for seemingly not caring, but if Jarmo is as smart as many of us seem to think he is, he recognizes Johansen's contributions to the Jackets' run and recognizes that he is still a kid.

Johansen's actions in Springfield may not be enough for him to be traded, of course, but they are certainly worthy of examination. I'm sure the intention of the team in sending him down to join the Falcons in the playoffs was to see him continue and build on the progress seen down the stretch. Instead, he was benched. That is no longer speculation, that has been verified. Can it be overcome? Certainly. Should it be ignored? No. Everything a young player does factors into his future role with the team, as well as his value as an asset. Ryan, being young, has time to prove he's learned what is expected of him and make everyone forget what happened in the AHL playoffs.