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Is Russia in danger?

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Eye of Ra

Eye of Ra

Grandmaster General of the International boards
Nov 15, 2008
19,363
5,538
Malmö, Sweden
When i look at Russia u-25 players they are not really that good and i dont see that big potential.

in nhl they only have one superstar under 25 and that is kucherov. in khl they have kaprizov and gusev but its not certain they would be superstars or even very good nhlers.

buchnevich a 40 pointer in nhl is the best they have behind kucherov, then its yakupov, goldobin, barbashoyv, slepyshev, zykov, scherbak, mamin and khlers like grigorenko, nichushkin....they are all mediocre and i dont really see any big potential in these guys. Evgeni Svechnikov looks like a bust so far.

when it comes to d-man they have provorov, zadarov, sergchyov....there is nobody else in that level from what i can see. behind these guys there is only mediocre d-mans.

goalies are good.

when i compare russia u25 players to the u25 players from usa, canada and finland there is no doubt that russia are miles behind.

i am not bashing russia, sweden is also in danger, looks like sweden/russia in the future will be on czech/switzerland/slovakia level with canada/usa/finland at the top.

am i correct? cheers.
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With Provorov and Sergachev, the future of Russia's defense is as good as I can ever remember it. Then you throw Vasilevski in net. They are set there. They always have plenty of scoring on the wing. The issue will be strength down the middle.
 
Are there any 15 and 16 year old phenoms in Russia currently (Ovechkin/Malkin tier) that are getting recognition as being the next big Russian prospect?
 
Rebels57 said:
With Provorov and Sergachev, the future of Russia's defense is as good as I can ever remember it. Then you throw Vasilevski in net. They are set there. They always have plenty of scoring on the wing. The issue will be strength down the middle.
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Their 96 D was much better than what they currently have. It had Zubov, Kasperitis, Zhitnik and Karpotsov. They also had Konstantiov who missed the tourney (don't remember why he didn't get into that horrific accident until June of 1997) and they also had an up and coming Gonchar. They also had a veteran in Fetisov. Provorov and Sergachev are going to have to both be top 10 defenders in the world to off-set the depth of those Russian teams. Zubov was one of the best offensive defenders in the game and Kasperitis among the most feared. Konstantinov was an elite all-around player (he finished 4th in Norris voting that year and 2nd the next). Guys like Karpotsov and Zhitnik were legitimate #2 or #3 defenders on most teams. Russia has ways to go to recapture that depth.
 
branch said:
Are there any 15 and 16 year old phenoms in Russia currently (Ovechkin/Malkin tier) that are getting recognition as being the next big Russian prospect?
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There is no one currently there getting as hyped as Andrei Svechnikov was. Malkin also wasn't really hyped until his draft year. 2019 is supposed to be a good Russian class but not with a very top tier prospect. The hype around guys like Knyazev has died off, and is why people should never really overhype 13-year-old kids. People are high on kids like Podkolzin, but he isn't viewed as a contender for the 1st overall pick in 2019 at the moment.
 
Eye of Ra said:
When i look at Russia u-25 players they are not really that good and i dont see that big potential.

in nhl they only have one superstar under 25 and that is kucherov. in khl they have kaprizov and gusev but its not certain they would be superstars or even very good nhlers.

buchnevich a 40 pointer in nhl is the best they have behind kucherov, then its yakupov, goldobin, barbashoyv, slepyshev, zykov, scherbak, mamin and khlers like grigorenko, nichushkin....they are all mediocre and i dont really see any big potential in these guys. Evgeni Svechnikov looks like a bust so far.

when it comes to d-man they have provorov, zadarov, sergchyov....there is nobody else in that level from what i can see. behind these guys there is only mediocre d-mans.

goalies are good.

when i compare russia u25 players to the u25 players from usa, canada and finland there is no doubt that russia are miles behind.

i am not bashing russia, sweden is also in danger, looks like sweden/russia in the future will be on czech/switzerland/slovakia level with canada/usa/finland at the top.

am i correct? cheers.
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Its a legitimate question. There is a strong suggestion that hockey in Russia is kind of withering away. There is a definite lack of talent produced, and the reasons aren't all that mysterious. It involves a simple lack of interest and investment. Hockey is a sport that requires expensive facilities and expensive equipment, and Russia simply cannot afford them in the same way that Canada, the United States, Sweden and Finland are capable of doing. That is why very small countries like Sweden and Finland, one/twenty-fifth of Russia's size, can put more talent and depth on the ice than Russia can. There are only a handful of hockey centers in Russia that have functioned successfully, but even these centers are producing less talent these days. It is a valid point that you make. It is simply about money!
 
AAAA -Russian roster

Bobrovsky,Vasylevsky,Sorokin

Ovechkin-Kuznetzov-Radulov
Panarin-Malkin-Kucherov
Gusev-Namestnikov-Dadonov
Kovalchuk-Datsyuk-Kaprizov
Tkachyov/Anisimov-Tarasenko

Voinov-Orlov
Zaytsev-Provorov
Sergachyov-Zadorov
Kulikov
 
I think the opposite finally they are starting to have a very good deffenders ( Orlov is turning out better than i tought) with Provorov maybe the best in the world i a couple of years not to mention Vasi who is already maybe the best goali in the world

As mentioned here the centers ala Malkin is where i see them as not so strong for the moment hopefully it will come some good players here
 
If anything Russias defense will be even better than it is now. All these young blueliners will be in their prime.

Sergachev
Tryamkin
Provorov
Gavrikov
Zadorov
Rykov

Their defense will be fine for Russias standard.
 
I think the KHL is the problem. Too much money is put into sustaining that league and overpaying players.

Just think if all those millions went towards youth development.
 
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No. Russian youth hockey continues to produce great star players. And they have started to systematically teach defensive play, zone exits and use of advanced statistics.

However, Russia is changing as a country demographically. A decade ago soccer started becoming noticeably more popular than hockey. Whereas in Soviet times and in the 90s their popularity was pretty much at the same level. Then soccer pulled ahead in the early 2000s. That means a smaller talent pool and we are starting to see results: just a tad bit less high-scoring stars entering the professional leagues each year and more mid-six, mid-pairing players. So their hockey has to change systems to accommodate that.

In terms of professional hockey, the sport does benefit from state attention and has done so for over a decade and an unwritten rule of almost mandatory sponsorship by oligarchs but new KHL executives are committed to using state aid and favour to jumpstart something may or may not lead to a profitable league. So it is a more of a case of a bit of this and a bit of that and from another point of view of seeing how things play out.
 
Phoicon said:
No. Russian youth hockey continues to produce great star players. And they have started to systematically teach defensive play, zone exits and use of advanced statistics.

However, Russia is changing as a country demographically. A decade ago soccer started becoming noticeably more popular than hockey. Whereas in Soviet times and in the 90s their popularity was pretty much at the same level. Then soccer pulled ahead in the early 2000s. That means a smaller talent pool and we are starting to see results: just a tad bit less high-scoring stars entering the professional leagues each year and more mid-six, mid-pairing players. So their hockey has to change systems to accommodate that.

In terms of professional hockey, the sport does benefit from state attention and has done so for over a decade and an unwritten rule of almost mandatory sponsorship by oligarchs but new KHL executives are committed to using state aid and favour to jumpstart something may or may not lead to a profitable league. So it is a more of a case of a bit of this and a bit of that and from another point of view of seeing how things play out.
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Please, that couldn't be any further from reality. Hockey never was and never will be even remotely as popular as football. In fact in soviet time you could argue that it was competing with basketball for second place in USSR and was rapidly losing the battle. Not football, never football. I bet that such football teams like Spartak Moscow or Dynamo Kiev had more fans in USSR than all hockey fans combined. Football was immensely big in USSR even before WWII when nobody even heard of ice hockey. If anything KHL is increasing popularity of hockey in Russia. It's now undeniably number 2 team sport in Russia which is as far as it could be.
 
alce said:
Please, that couldn't be any further from reality. Hockey never was and never will be even remotely as popular as football. In fact in soviet time you could argue that it was competing with basketball for second place in USSR and was rapidly losing the battle. Not football, never football. I bet that such football teams like Spartak Moscow or Dynamo Kiev had more fans in USSR than all hockey fans combined. Football was immensely big in USSR even before WWII when nobody even heard of ice hockey. If anything KHL is increasing popularity of hockey in Russia. It's now undeniably number 2 team sport in Russia which is as far as it could be.
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Lol, I played ice-hockey for 9 years with current Liiga and KHL players in my youth. My dad played in the Soviet system. Yeah. I know stuff you only can dream about online.

But continue on.
 
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Eh looks okay. An elite young goaltender, some young defencemen better than Russia has had in 20 years. Forwards don't match Ovechkin/Malkin/Datsyuk.Kovalchuk but it isn't like those guys came close to winning anything big. Russia's player development is a bit different that that of many other nations in that some guys (Kucherov, Panarin in recent times) come into their own a bit later than usual. Russia with a top goaltender, some elite defencemen and worse (but not significantly so) forwards is more dangerous than Russia with three lines of dangerous forwards and little else.
 
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Danger - Danger Will Robinson!!

5840d741d7af4100750607c897883107.jpg
 
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I guess you'll have to define what you mean by "in danger". They still have plenty of young talent playing in the NHL playoffs right now.
Are they goods as they used to be? No. But they are still capable of winning a best vs best tournament.
 
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