Is Russia in danger?

[FinPanda]

Russia is fine. They will only get better in a few years. Their early 2000 groups are very impressive.

 

[VVP]

Russian development along with new rinks being built around the country guarantee that Russia is going to have a great hockey future.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

They are still hanging around. I can see Canada and Sweden decline a bit but still be at the top level competing for gold.

 

[Atas2000]

When i look at Russia u-25 players they are not really that good and i dont see that big potential.

in nhl they only have one superstar under 25 and that is kucherov. in khl they have kaprizov and gusev but its not certain they would be superstars or even very good nhlers.

buchnevich a 40 pointer in nhl is the best they have behind kucherov, then its yakupov, goldobin, barbashoyv, slepyshev, zykov, scherbak, mamin and khlers like grigorenko, nichushkin....they are all mediocre and i dont really see any big potential in these guys. Evgeni Svechnikov looks like a bust so far.

when it comes to d-man they have provorov, zadarov, sergchyov....there is nobody else in that level from what i can see. behind these guys there is only mediocre d-mans.

goalies are good.

when i compare russia u25 players to the u25 players from usa, canada and finland there is no doubt that russia are miles behind.

i am not bashing russia, sweden is also in danger, looks like sweden/russia in the future will be on czech/switzerland/slovakia level with canada/usa/finland at the top.

am i correct? cheers.

You are not correct.

 

[Eye of Ra]

You are not correct.

ok, davaj.

 

[aphyro]

sterling, henderson, stones, young are decent players but not very good players, the only reason they play for such good teams is because they are english. vardy is nothing special. kane yeah he is world class.

england is not on same level as spain, portugal, brazil, argentine, germany, belgium, france, they are miles behind this teams.

Lol are you kidding? Brazil havent been good for years... last world cup showed that 7-1 to Germany... and Belgium is an overrated team... Sweden without Zlatan is a really good team beated France took out Netherland and took out Italy to even be in the World cup so for you to say Sweden isnt a good football country just make me doubt you know that much about football.

 

[kabidjan18]

Do not underestimate Vitali Kravtsov. Will leave it at that.

 

[alko]

Are there any 15 and 16 year old phenoms in Russia currently (Ovechkin/Malkin tier) that are getting recognition as being the next big Russian prospect?

Danil Gushchin seems to be very promising scorer prospect.

But overall, there is very thin line between success and frustration on World stage.

 

[Oddbob]

Russia is fine, they will remain near the top at talent, just like now, as will Canada and Sweden etc.

 

[Yakushev72]

Russia is fine. They will only get better in a few years. Their early 2000 groups are very impressive.

What are some of the reasons and accomplishments that cause you to call the 2000 group impressive?

 

[Yakushev72]

You are not correct.

Why is he wrong? What results lately have convinced you that glory is at hand?

 

[FinPanda]

What are some of the reasons and accomplishments that cause you to call the 2000 group impressive?

I said "2000 groups". I meant 2000, 2001 ->

And I said that because I've heard Russia has stronger hockey program now and the future age groups will only get better and have more depth.

 

[Atas2000]

Why is he wrong? What results lately have convinced you that glory is at hand?

What brings you to the conclusion that there are only two states possible: "glory is at hand" or "all is lost"?

I found the OP's opus magnum too full of wrong assumptions and exagerations to give a detailed answer to every single one of them. Does't mean I don't have a strong opinion on the state of affairs and future of russian hockey.

 

[ViD]

OP, I think you missed the fact that Russia had the longest medal streak at WJHC and medaled pretty much every year at the WHC.

Yeah, we failed this year, but we had a terrible roster. We did win Olympics this year though.

 

[Yakushev72]

What brings you to the conclusion that there are only two states possible: "glory is at hand" or "all is lost"?

I found the OP's opus magnum too full of wrong assumptions and exagerations to give a detailed answer to every single one of them. Does't mean I don't have a strong opinion on the state of affairs and future of russian hockey.

In a way, it is either/or. They are either gathering glory, or they are in a state of mediocrity as there is now. What I don't get is people who say, "yes, things suck now, but some day soon, things will get much better." Really? Why? Do you know about something that is going on that will miraculously make things better? Is there a national investment project? Are coaches getting better? Are defensemen getting better? Is there someone waiting in the dressing room who will replace Soshnikov on the 3rd line?

The OP observed there are very few top level Russian players who are currently in action, and there is seemingly nothing going on in Russia that will change that. I see a lot of posts saying "don't worry, Russia will be fine," but why will Russia be fine? What will suddenly vault Russia over 4th-6th place in major tournaments? I try to keep up - what is going on that I don't know about?

 

[Atas2000]

In a way, it is either/or. They are either gathering glory, or they are in a state of mediocrity as there is now. What I don't get is people who say, "yes, things suck now, but some day soon, things will get much better." Really? Why? Do you know about something that is going on that will miraculously make things better? Is there a national investment project? Are coaches getting better? Are defensemen getting better? Is there someone waiting in the dressing room who will replace Soshnikov on the 3rd line?

The OP observed there are very few top level Russian players who are currently in action, and there is seemingly nothing going on in Russia that will change that. I see a lot of posts saying "don't worry, Russia will be fine," but why will Russia be fine? What will suddenly vault Russia over 4th-6th place in major tournaments? I try to keep up - what is going on that I don't know about?

People who pretend to know what's going to be either have a crystal ball or are wishful thinkers. I can tell you what we have. We have 2 strong generations of players after the last soviet generation of Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Datsyuk. There is a hole inbetween them and the promised generation of 2000-2001 born I have little hope for because they are going to NA early only to flame out. Those holes happen naturally for evey nation. Look at the WJC teams and you will know. We've had it with Kamenev and Slepyshev being the best of their crops. Both then projected to be 3rd or 2nd liners with the help of God when they grow up. That still gives us a NT for many years to come, assuming Gary Bettmann steps on a land mine and the NHL stops disrupting international hockey. Otherwise we are looking at many years without international hockey at all and for all nations those generations will participate in idiotic tournaments like the so called world cup, but there will be no real tournament to watch real national teams. And endless discussions will continue about "Canada's H team" with McDavid on it and Switzerland and Germany will enjoy their miracle runs.

We further have a surprisingly adequate influx of defencemen. That's not depth, but that's more than any of those lackluster olympic teams with NHLers recently had. There are also prospects coming up who might pan out... or not.

We have a FHR run by Rotenberg the younger who seems to be a complete miscast for the job and a KHL with some few teams fighting the idiocracy of C-SKA. Contracting, cutting teams it should support. Obvipusly Chernyshenko was a miscast too. He is an accountant with no idea how to actually run an enterprise. Will that hurt russian hockey? It does and it will do. But not enough to produce QF exits as a given. There is too much talent there still. And every other nation has it's pains. Look at the Finns this WHC. The golden age of finnish hockey was anounced and they do have a huge talent boost(partially helped by some russian parents without a sense of cultural roots). But somehow they can't get the big wing on grown ups level yet. Canada has enough troubles too. Nobody is perfect.

In that sense I am not saying Russia will be fine like in winning all, but like in competitive and not 4-6th best as you put it. For tge future there must be change at home and there will be and it will be painful. I have no idea though if it will result in a big hole in international performance or not.

 

[Yakushev72]

People who pretend to know what's going to be either have a crystal ball or are wishful thinkers. I can tell you what we have. We have 2 strong generations of players after the last soviet generation of Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Datsyuk. There is a hole inbetween them and the promised generation of 2000-2001 born I have little hope for because they are going to NA early only to flame out. Those holes happen naturally for evey nation. Look at the WJC teams and you will know. We've had it with Kamenev and Slepyshev being the best of their crops. Both then projected to be 3rd or 2nd liners with the help of God when they grow up. That still gives us a NT for many years to come, assuming Gary Bettmann steps on a land mine and the NHL stops disrupting international hockey. Otherwise we are looking at many years without international hockey at all and for all nations those generations will participate in idiotic tournaments like the so called world cup, but there will be no real tournament to watch real national teams. And endless discussions will continue about "Canada's H team" with McDavid on it and Switzerland and Germany will enjoy their miracle runs.

We further have a surprisingly adequate influx of defencemen. That's not depth, but that's more than any of those lackluster olympic teams with NHLers recently had. There are also prospects coming up who might pan out... or not.

We have a FHR run by Rotenberg the younger who seems to be a complete miscast for the job and a KHL with some few teams fighting the idiocracy of C-SKA. Contracting, cutting teams it should support. Obvipusly Chernyshenko was a miscast too. He is an accountant with no idea how to actually run an enterprise. Will that hurt russian hockey? It does and it will do. But not enough to produce QF exits as a given. There is too much talent there still. And every other nation has it's pains. Look at the Finns this WHC. The golden age of finnish hockey was anounced and they do have a huge talent boost(partially helped by some russian parents without a sense of cultural roots). But somehow they can't get the big wing on grown ups level yet. Canada has enough troubles too. Nobody is perfect.

In that sense I am not saying Russia will be fine like in winning all, but like in competitive and not 4-6th best as you put it. For tge future there must be change at home and there will be and it will be painful. I have no idea though if it will result in a big hole in international performance or not.

If your point is that realistically, we should expect 4th to 6th place finishes for the foreseeable future, I agree with that. But if I missed your point, and you are saying that there are initiatives underway that will improve the quality of players, recruit a higher percentage of the best available talent, expand development opportunities for development within Russia, and not overseas, then I am anxious to hear it.

 

[Atas2000]

If your point is that realistically, we should expect 4th to 6th place finishes for the foreseeable future, I agree with that. But if I missed your point, and you are saying that there are initiatives underway that will improve the quality of players, recruit a higher percentage of the best available talent, expand development opportunities for development within Russia, and not overseas, then I am anxious to hear it.

In the state we are now we should expect medals in a best on best. Not best on best aren't predictable. Take this past WHC. Even with the best possible roster that would be a long shot. The way it should be we should be contending every time though.

You are painting too dark of a picture. That's my point. A lot of things need improvement. Some ASAP. But the current system while it's not perfect is still working. And claiming 4-6th is where we are is a bit much.