Former Bruins Is Ray Bourque a Top 10 All-Time Player?

[rfournier103]

Pretty straightforward… if we were to make a list of the 10 best NHL players of all time regardless of position, would Ray be in the top 10?

Disclaimer: Bourque was my favorite player when I was growing up.

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[Fenian24]

That I have seen going back to 74, yes. All time, no.

I never saw Auriel Joilet, Rocket Richard, Howe on the Red Wings, Doug Harvey, Eddie Shore, Jean Beliveau, Bobby Hull in Chicago, Milt Schmidt, or the Leaf players from their dynasty years so it is impossible for me to judge.

 

[Eddie Munson]

Top-10 player? No. Top-10 defenseman? Yes.

 

[quietbruinfan]

He is not quite top 10, 10-15 though.

 

[finchster]

Bourque is on the third tier of all time great defenceman.
Orr
Shore, Harvey
Bourque, Lidstrom, Potvin

And probably between 10-20 all time.

 

[HooperDrivesTheBoat]

Bourque (and Neely) is the reason I’m a Bruins fan so there is no way for me to give an unbiased answer. I personally think that, other than Gretzky and Mario, he was the best player on the ice most nights during the 80’s and 90’s. Again, certainly biased, but he was just incredible to watch.

That being said, and to piggyback on what Fenian wrote, I can only judge the players I’ve actually seen play many times. Using those parameters (since I began watching in mid-80’s), Bourque is absolutely top-5 during that era and THE best defenseman. Better than Leetch, Coffey, Lidstrom, etc. The guy rarely made a mistake with the puck and put up incredible numbers. It was amazing to watch.

 

[4ORRBRUIN]

No way

 

[Gee Wally]

Top-10 player? No. Top-10 defenseman? Yes.

we have Bingo!

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

Top-10 player? No. Top-10 defenseman? Yes.

This is it.

 

[DominicT]

I've been watching since the 60's and I have to say No.

To this day, I still don't know how to rank Bourque/Park or Park/Bourque.

Park finished runner up in the Norris voting 8 times almost exclusively because of Bobby Orr. Had it not been for Orr, I think most people would look at Park differently.

 

[HuskyBruinPride]

Top 10 player no. Top 10 defenseman absolutely.

 

[BruinDust]

Ray Bourque is my all-time favorite player and to me he's the 2nd best D-man of all-time, behind Bobby Orr. Personally I find Bourque more underrated than overrated, especially now 20 years since he retired. His numbers, his consistency, his longevity. He was a complete player, could do it all.

Up until a few weeks ago, Bourque had landed more shots on goal than any other player in the history of the league. The fact he played in an era against both prime Gretzky and prime Lemieux and was obviously overshadowed by both. Robbed of a Hart Trophy in 1990.

But he's not Top 10 player all-time. The only D-man I consider Top 10 all-time is Orr. I don't have any goalies in my Top 10 all-time list either. This was my list I posted on the main board a few days ago. In no particular order.

Orr
Gretzky
Lemieux
Jagr
McDavid
Crosby
OV
Rocket
Beliveau
Howe

As a D-man Orr is in a tier by himself. I'd argue so is Bourque in a tier just below. I don't know if any other D makes my Top 20. Maybe Eddie Shore but it's hard to say considering I never saw Shore play.

Then below Bourque it could be any one of a pile of guys. Shore, Harvey, Potvin, Lidstrom, Pronger, Park, Robinson. Even Chara who may be the best defensive D-man of all-time. If not for Karlsson's dip in performance prior to this year he'd be in that conversation. I get the Cale Makar hype but he's no Bobby Orr but will likely challenge for a Top 6 D-man all-time spot before his career is said and done.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

On the History of Hockey site on these boards, the last list of greatest players was done in 2018. Ray Bourque finished #10 on that list. I had voted him 15th.

Considering that was 5 years ago, I would think Bourque would fall behind Crosby and possibly Ovechkin if a new list were created today. Possibly McDavid also if he wins yet another scoring title this season.

Of course, with different voters, players that have been out of the game for a while often get dropped down the list a bit.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I've been watching since the 60's and I have to say No.

To this day, I still don't know how to rank Bourque/Park or Park/Bourque.

Park finished runner up in the Norris voting 8 times almost exclusively because of Bobby Orr. Had it not been for Orr, I think most people would look at Park differently.

Actually, only 6 times. 4 times behind Orr, twice behind Potvin.

Park's knees were almost as bad as Orr's. The 2nd half of his career was almost slow motion compared to his early years.

 

[DominicT]

Actually, only 6 times. 4 times behind Orr, twice behind Potvin.

Park's knees were almost as bad as Orr's. The 2nd half of his career was almost slow motion compared to his early years.

You know that, I know that, but the NHL several times refers to him as the 8 time runner up

Park made the NHL First All-Star Team five times and the Second All-Star Team twice. He was an eight-time runner-up for the Norris Trophy, finishing second mostly because of the one defenseman who was second to no one, and who also inspired him -- Bobby Orr. "Nobody could control the game like Bobby Orr could control the game," Park told "Legends of Hockey." "He set the tone on the ice. When we played against each other, I was going to play as well as I could because he was the measuring stick. The closer you could be to him, the better you were."

Brad Park: 100 Greatest NHL Players

The latest news, analysis and stories from NHL.com, the official site of the National Hockey League

www.nhl.com

 

[missingchicklet]

I'm not the crying type, but I generated some tears when Bourque won the Cup with the Avs. Still have a soft spot for the Avs because of Bourque's short time there. Absolutely love the guy. But, like several others, I don't think he's top 10.

Somewhere between 15-20 would be my best estimate without overanalyzing things. I'm definitely not on board with the Ken Campbell/Hockey News crap from several years ranking Bourque 26th (he also had Orr at 5th lol). Being in the top 20 of all NHL players means a player was ultra-elite, and Bourque was certainly that.

 

[finchster]

I've been watching since the 60's and I have to say No.

To this day, I still don't know how to rank Bourque/Park or Park/Bourque.

Park finished runner up in the Norris voting 8 times almost exclusively because of Bobby Orr. Had it not been for Orr, I think most people would look at Park differently.

I can see if the question is, "who was the best player on their best day", but I think Bourque's longevity is too good to ignore.

19 all-star team selections? The only player that did it better longer might be Howe. Brad Park may be underrated, but I don't see much of an argument for Park over Bourque, unless you value peak and have an argument why his peak was better.

Let's not forget, Bourque was robbed of the Hart Trophy back in 90. If he wins a Hart, which he should have, he gets rated higher.

 

[DominicT]

I can see if the question is, "who was the best player on their best day", but I think Bourque's longevity is too good to ignore.

19 all-star team selections? The only player that did it better longer might be Howe. Brad Park may be underrated, but I don't see much of an argument for Park over Bourque, unless you value peak and have an argument why his peak was better.

Let's not forget, Bourque was robbed of the Hart Trophy back in 90. If he wins a Hart, which he should have, he gets rated higher.

I agree and I will also add that it is hard to answer someone's question about who was "the best" when anyone asking the question doesn't give you the criteria.

Pound for pound Mario Lemieux was the most talented player I have seen play the game. Was he the best? Based on the criteria most use, no he wasn't.

 

[sarge88]

I know it’s entirely made up, stupid and unrealistic…..but when I’m comparing two players in hockey I always find myself thinking about how 5 of each of them with the same goaltender would fare against each other.

For instance, I can’t see 5 Gretzky’s beating 5 Marios, simply because of Mario’s size, strength and skating advantage.

Regarding Bourque, I can’t imagine 5 Bourque’s ever letting up a goal.

Not sure if that makes him top 10 all time or not.

I will say I agree with those that rank him top 10 defenseman and maybe top 25 or so all time.

 

[rocketdan9]

Close

However since the 90s ... he is a top 8 - two way D imo. Arguably the best

In no order, Bourque, Lidstrom, Pronger, Hedman, Chara, Chelios, Scott Niedermayer, Rob Blake

 

[GordonHowe]

Pretty straightforward… if we were to make a list of the 10 best NHL players of all time regardless of position, would Ray be in the top 10?

Disclaimer: Bourque was my favorite player when I was growing up.

Ray was a great, great player. I don't have him in my top ten, though.

I'm sure some stats freak might beg to differ, and I'd actually like to know where he stands stats wise in the pantheon of NHL greats.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

He's easily in that 6-12 group that you can rank any way you want.

Personally I have a Big 5 of Orr, Gretzky, Howe, Lemieux and Hasek.

Then rank Jagr, Beliveau, Shore, Bourque, Potvin, Roy, Crosby in any order you choose.

13x AS-1
6x AS-2
15x Norris Top 3
PPG in 1600 games as a defenseman

 

[finchster]

Ray was a great, great player. I don't have him in my top ten, though.

I'm sure some stats freak might beg to differ, and I'd actually like to know where he stands stats wise in the pantheon of NHL greats.

He has the most all-star selections of any player, ever.

He was top-four in Norris voting 19 years out of the 21 he played. I would also argue, he did that during one of the hardest eras for defencemen.

Chelios, Coffey, Stevens, MacInnis, Leetch, all stud number one defenceman

 

[GordonHowe]

He has the most all-star selections of any player, ever.

He was top-four in Norris voting 19 years out of the 21 he played. I would also argue, he did that during one of the hardest eras for defencemen.

Chelios, Coffey, Stevens, MacInnis, Leetch, all stud number one defenceman

Again, many if not most would have Bourque in the top ten all time best NHL players. You'll get no argument from me.

I just don't have him on that list.

Top 10 defensemen? Obviously.

 

[Baddkarma]

Here is my thing with the greatness of Ray Borque.

He was 40, 40!!!!!!

When he posted his cup season and 7g-52a on a stacked Avs squad.

Players should be rated among their piers, and for me that means other defenseman.

Orr
Potvin
Bourque
Park
Lidstrom
Chara
Shore
Coffee