Is Pettersson a top 5 C in the league?

[bossram]

Again, not no one. Thanks.

You're right. It's not no one. I was not speaking precisely, for emphatic effect. But the general consensus among most people, even Canucks fans, is that he is not top-five.

Your argument is that Canucks fans writ-large are overrating him. But factually, they are not.

So if a small portion of Americans are flat earthers, I can rightly say that all Americans are flat-earthers right? That's how it works right? According to your logic.

 

[I know]

Top 5??? WTF?? Maybe top 50.

 

[BHawk21]

McDavid
Mackinnon
Draisaitl
Matthews
Barkov

Hes not better then those 5.
Ill take the following over him too.

Eichel
Hughes
Crosby
Aho

Hes with Point Larkin Stutzle Kopitar Scheifele Suzuki IMO

 

[Letsdothis]

Crosby was definitely number 6 last season. Despite being on a bad team that sold at the deadline, he still had one of his best seasons yet for EV production and 200 ft play.
NHL.com was correct to have him at six and Point at seven going into this season.

Crosby has had bad defensive metrics for a while. He's in discussion for the 6th place, but in no way has he separated himself from the likes of J. Hughes, Pettersson, Point, Eichel.

 

[kerrabria]

They don't man. Come to the Canucks board. Look at the Petey thread from like a month ago. Yeah, they're surely overrating him! Calling him a loser, soft, overpaid, should be traded. Sounds like Canucks fans think he's better than McDavid!

You're proving my point. When he was on a heater, he was a Top 5. Now that he's a whipping boy, he's garbage.

Hughes is the best defenseman in the league right now (and last season). That is just factual. Top-10 for the last few seasons is also factual. You don't know puck if you think otherwise.

Such a preposterous (and predictable) take. How is Hughes better than Makar when Makar is the better skater, better goal scorer, an overall more dynamic offensive threat, significantly more capable defensively, and doesn't have lack any semblance of physicality like Hughes?
All Quinn has over Makar is stickhandling and finesse on the breakout.
And given that, I don't know which would be funnier. Whether you consider Bouchard to be elite or if you consider him to be garbage.

 

[10YearsHaveGotBehind]

You're right. It's not no one. I was not speaking precisely, for emphatic effect. But the general consensus among most people, even Canucks fans, is that he is not top-five.

Your argument is that Canucks fans writ-large are overrating him. But factually, they are not.

So if a small portion of Americans are flat earthers, I can rightly say that all Americans are flat-earthers right? That's how it works right? According to your logic.

Look man, its ok to admit you were wrong in saying "no one thinks hes a top 5 C" when very clearly a significant portion of the Nucks fanbase does think he is. Just look at these comments from page 1 of this 14 page thread:

Yes.
Behind only McDavid, Draisaitl and McKinnon and in a group with about 4 other guys who trade positions year to year.
This year he’s top five.

Easily.

McDavid
Mackinnon
Pettersson
Matthews
Hughes
Crosby
Barkov
Draisaitl
Point
Eichel
Miller
Aho
Thompson
Thomas
Barzal

Since when was Matthews ever Selke calibre? There's no question Petey is above defensively. Come on now.

McDavid
MacKinnon
Draisaitl
Matthews
Pettersson
Barkov
Hughes
Crosby

in order.

As a Canucks fan, he’s top 5. You can say “in the neighbourhood” and wouldn’t be wrong tho . My ranking would be:

Mcdavid
MacKinnon
Drai
Matthews
Pettersson

You can argue Hughes for the 5th spot. You could even argue Jack Eichel this season. Point deserves an honourable mention as well. Crosby is still playing at an elite level, though I can’t confidently say he’s top5 any longer. I think the best take on this is that the other 4 guys are almost set in stone as the top 4, while Pettersson is the best option at the 5th spot for now.

 

[kerrabria]

Crosby has had bad defensive metrics for a while. He's in discussion for the 6th place, but in no way has he separated himself from the likes of J. Hughes, Pettersson, Point, Eichel.

Last season, Crosby had the second most takeaways in the league among forwards (Malkin was first), led Pens' forwards in CF% rel, FF% rel, and E+/-. He was also among the best face-off men in the league. There's a reason he finished 9th in Selke votes despite never playing the PK.

 

[bossram]

You're proving my point. When he was on a heater, he was a Top 5. Now that he's a whipping boy, he's garbage.

Such a preposterous (and predictable) take. How is Hughes better than Makar when Makar is the better skater, better goal scorer, an overall more dynamic offensive threat, significantly more capable defensively, and doesn't have lack any semblance of physicality like Hughes?
All Quinn has over Makar is stickhandling and finesse on the breakout.
And given that, I don't know which would be funnier. Whether you consider Bouchard to be elite or if you consider him to be garbage.

Re Pettersson: So what you're actually saying is that when Petey is playing well, Canucks fans think of him more highly. And when's not playing well, they rate him lower. Hmm...So they're not constantly overrating him, is what you're saying.

Re Hughes: You don't know puck man. The on/off ice splits with Hughes are massive. The Canucks are a legitimately bad team with Hughes off the ice. With him on the ice, they are an elite team. The splits with Makar are not that large. In fact, Makar's splits without Mackinnon on the ice are actually...kinda mediocre. Suggests the main driver of the team is Mackinnon, not Makar.

Regarding defense, COL is giving up 23 scoring chances per 60 (per NST) with Makar on the ice. With Hughes on the ice, the Canucks are giving up 18 scoring chances per 60. The Canucks are literally allowing fewer chances with Hughes. So who is defending better here?

I don't know why you're bringing up Bouchard. He's worse than both.

 

[kerrabria]

Re Pettersson: So what you're actually saying is that when Petey is playing well, Canucks fans think of him more highly. And when's not playing well, they rate him lower. Hmm...So they're not constantly overrating him, is what you're saying.

Re Hughes: You don't know puck man. The on/off ice splits with Hughes are massive. The Canucks are a legitimately bad team with Hughes off the ice. With him on the ice, they are an elite team. The splits with Makar are not that large. In fact, Makar's splits without Mackinnon on the ice are actually...kinda mediocre. Suggests the main driver of the team is Mackinnon, not Makar.

Idk man, the splits don't seem that crazy.

Regarding defense, COL is giving up 23 scoring chances per 60 (per NST) with Makar on the ice. With Hughes on the ice, the Canucks are giving up 18 scoring chances per 60. The Canucks are literally allowing fewer chances with Hughes. So who is defending better here?

Does this account for the fact that Makar is one of Colorado's core PKers while Quinn averages 0:11 SH TOI per game?

I don't know why you're bringing up Bouchard. He's worse than both.

Agreed, Bouchard isn't even a 1D as far as I'm concerned. I brought him up because if you think Hughes is the best dman in the NHL, then it'd be funny if you either
a) Thought Bouchard was also elite--because that'd prove terrible judgement regarding what a dman is supposed to contribute.
b) Thought Bouchard was crap--because that'd be hugely hypocritical if (unlike Hughes) his softness and lack of defense doesn't outweigh his elite offensive numbers.

 

[bossram]

Idk man, the splits don't seem that crazy.

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Does this account for the fact that Makar is one of Colorado's core PKers while Quinn averages 0:11 SH TOI per game?


Agreed, Bouchard isn't even a 1D as far as I'm concerned. I brought him up because if you think Hughes is the best dman in the NHL, then it'd be funny if you either
a) Thought Bouchard was also elite--because that'd prove terrible judgement regarding what a dman is supposed to contribute.
b) Thought Bouchard was crap--because that'd be hugely hypocritical if (unlike Hughes) his softness and lack of defense doesn't outweigh his elite offensive numbers.

So you concede? You have no counter to my argument on Pettersson.

And no, the scoring chance against stats are 5v5 only.

Here's Makar with Mackinnon: 65% scoring chance share
Makar without Mackinnon: 50%

Hughes with Miller: 63%
Hughes with Petey: 63%
Hughes without Miller: 65%
Hughes without Petey: 62%

It's all Hughes for VAN. Looks like Mackinnon is the primary driver for COL. Even the charts you posted show everyone is significantly better with Hughes. And go to actual goals, the difference is even more stark.

Brannstrom-Desharnais play extremely sheltered minutes for VAN. Low TOI, very soft deployment.

 

[strattonius]

I answered yes but to be fair this was back in January when Pettersson was in contention for the Selke and was having an extraordinary season. What happened the next 55 games...I and many Canuck fans have no idea.

There was definitely an injury last year that carried in to the playoffs and then there are some fans that believe that injury was still the cause of his struggles to start the year. But perhaps that's all in the past now as Pettersson has 16pts in his last 11 games and is looking a lot more like himself.

In any case there's currently 0 Canucks fans that believe he's in the top 5 as his recent skid is enough of a slump to knock anyone out of such a lucrative spot.

 

[dirtydanglez]

top 4 is locked down with mcdavid, mack, drai, and matthews. 5th place is up for grabs but i wouldnt put pettersson there.

 

[Hallonbroder]

Ofc not