We seriously need to rank the "Best 9 game starts to a season in NHL history" as Forsberg clearly isn't getting the recognition he deserves.
Is Peter Forsberg underrated?
- Thread starter Ben White
- Start date
We seriously need to rank the "Best 9 game starts to a season in NHL history" as Forsberg clearly isn't getting the recognition he deserves.
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
As someone who has been on this board for entirely too long, the thought of Peter Forsberg being underrated is f***ing hilarious.
I mean he probably is slightly underrated by the hockey community at large, but here? I don't think Christians love Jesus half as much as this place worshipped Forsberg.
I mean he probably is slightly underrated by the hockey community at large, but here? I don't think Christians love Jesus half as much as this place worshipped Forsberg.
tabness
be a playa 🇵🇸
- Apr 4, 2014
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brother don't you make a lot out of Crosby's like 20 game 2011-2012 season crunching all the numbers and all that?
glass houses and all that...
Ben White
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How dishonest is this post? You’re excluding Forsberg’s entire peak from 2002 to 2005 cause it doesn’t overlap with Sakic’s prime. Be real. This basically disqualifies your entire argument. But for the sake of it, let’s do some in depth with what you put here.
94/95 - Sakic 4th in PPG, Forsberg 19th
You absolutely can not compare an NHL veteran in his prime to a rookie
95/96 - 5th in PPG, Sakic 4th
Forsberg’s sophomore season. Wasn’t considered Avs’ #1C yet, yet already almost produced at peak Sakic level.
96/97 - 5th in PPG, Sakic 0.01 lower before he was injured
97/98 - Forsberg 3rd in PPG, Sakic 17th
Forsberg is 1st team all star
98/99 - About the same but Sakic has the higher PPG. -Forsberg is 1st team all star though
99/00 - Sakic had 2nd best PPG, Forsberg N/A Forsberg came straight out of back surgery and sitting out the first half of the season.
00/01 - Sakic easily better, Forsberg is 21st in PPG before injury, finishes 4th
Forsberg still wasn’t his old self after the surgery and clearly needed to rest up, which he did the next regular season and the rest is history (which you happened to exclude in your post).
You should seriously be ashamed of yourself for posting such dishonest content.
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Ben White
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When it comes to the Forsberg vs Sakic comparison, here are som cold hard facts when it comes to their production:
In Sakic best stretch of seasons (his prime) 1989-90 to 2000-01 it looks like this:
In Forsberg’s prime 1995-06 to 2003-04 it looks like this:
Despite playing the entirety in the DPE with MUCH lower scoring than in Sakic’ stretch from ‘89 to ‘94 Forsberg has him beat in both league ranking and per game numbers when comparing prime vs prime. And this is including two seasons where Forsberg was clearly affected from a back surgery which made his numbers drop drastically for 1,5 season + playing through injuries, playing half injured a lot more in general which hurts his per game numbers.
Let’s look at the playoffs. First Sakic’ prime:
Remarkably enough Forsberg still has him beat despite including his rookie season and playing exclusively in the DPE vs Sakic being in his prime and partly playing in a much higher scoring era.
Let’s look at Forsberg’s prime:
Sakic is doing fine but Forsberg has him clearly beat.
And this is only production. I think we all can agree that Forsberg was the better defensive player and physical presence.
And even if we don’t care about +\-, Forsberg leads the entire league in his prime whereas Sakic is nowhere to be found in his. However since +\- is partly a team stat we can exclude the Quebec days, but still Sakic is only at place 14 when only including his prime years in Colorado.
I think we can end the discussion about who was better between the two now. Feel free to share this post whenever you get tangled up in a Sakic vs Forsberg discussion.
In Sakic best stretch of seasons (his prime) 1989-90 to 2000-01 it looks like this:
In Forsberg’s prime 1995-06 to 2003-04 it looks like this:
Despite playing the entirety in the DPE with MUCH lower scoring than in Sakic’ stretch from ‘89 to ‘94 Forsberg has him beat in both league ranking and per game numbers when comparing prime vs prime. And this is including two seasons where Forsberg was clearly affected from a back surgery which made his numbers drop drastically for 1,5 season + playing through injuries, playing half injured a lot more in general which hurts his per game numbers.
Let’s look at the playoffs. First Sakic’ prime:
Remarkably enough Forsberg still has him beat despite including his rookie season and playing exclusively in the DPE vs Sakic being in his prime and partly playing in a much higher scoring era.
Let’s look at Forsberg’s prime:
Sakic is doing fine but Forsberg has him clearly beat.
And this is only production. I think we all can agree that Forsberg was the better defensive player and physical presence.
And even if we don’t care about +\-, Forsberg leads the entire league in his prime whereas Sakic is nowhere to be found in his. However since +\- is partly a team stat we can exclude the Quebec days, but still Sakic is only at place 14 when only including his prime years in Colorado.
I think we can end the discussion about who was better between the two now. Feel free to share this post whenever you get tangled up in a Sakic vs Forsberg discussion.
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TheGoldenJet
Registered User
Because they don’t fit your argument.
Why did you choose the number 75, I wonder? Forsberg has played 72+ games five times in his prime, yet has a glaring lack of hardware. Auston Matthews won the Hart recently with 73 games played, against McDavid no less.
Ben White
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Then explain how it’s relevant in this context. One outlier 73 GP Hart from Matthew’s doesn’t change the argument. It’s very difficult to challenge for Hart with 72 GP if you’re up against another worthy candidate who has 82. In 1998 Forsberg is defensively giving Jagr a run for his money for Hart had he played closer to 82.
I would also argue that sophomore Forsberg in ‘96, not yet deployed as Avs’
#1C, is not prime Forsberg in the sense that you could expect him to win a major award. And in 2001 he was clearly affected from his back surgery that had him sit out half of the prior season, I wouldn’t call that version of Forsberg “prime Forsberg”. He could’ve won it in 1999 - no excuses there. But he was voted 1st team all star as best center in the league and had a Conn Smythe worthy playoff run that year. I withhold that it’s unreasonable to think that lack of more hardware is something that can be held against Forsberg given the cards on hand.
In his prime, when healthy, Forsberg only had two seasons, and one borderline (72 GP), where it was realistic for him to even sniff any hardware given the amount of games played. Still he won:
1 Hart Trophy
1 Art Ross
1 Calder
1 plus/minus award
1 Selke runner up
3 times 1st team all star as the leagues best center
2 times unofficial playoff scoring champ (despite not playing in the finals)
Tell me how this resume can be held against him?
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You absolutely cannot compare an NHL veteran at their peak to a post-prime player. This basically disqualifies your entire argument.
Ben White
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Eh, no, I never ever suggested we should compare overlapping seasons. It was you who suggested that. Overlapping seasons comparisons is only relevant between players of the same age. Check my post above where I compare prime vs prime. This is just ridiculous.
Prime Joe Sakic was a Top 3/5 scorer. You started his prime at age 20 when he was 10th in scoring and 14th in PPG.
You started Forsberg's at age 22 when he was 5th in scoring.
How is that fair?
Luigi Lemieux
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Avs won the cup without Forsberg completely. Pens or caps for example don't win any cups without Crosby, Ovechkin, or Malkin. Forsberg may have played in the dpe mostly, but he also played pre salary cap era, and benefited greatly from a stacked team and a stacked line.
Ben White
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Feel free to start Sakic’ prime from age 22, that will only remove one 109 p season and one 102 p season from his resume, in the super high scoring early 90’s. You’re digging your hole deeper by the post.
