Is Peter Forsberg underrated?

[dirtydanglez]

crosby was better than forsberg but it wasnt a huge gap. id put forsberg halfway between crosby and malkin

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I'm not reading all of the thread but it's a tremendous failing on behalf of the membership that HFBoards can regard Peter Forsberg as anything other than the most complete, perfect hockey player imaginable.

The only thing “complete and perfect” about ol’ Floppa was his penchant for diving.

 

[GoldenKnight]

crosby was better than forsberg but it wasnt a huge gap. id put forsberg halfway between crosby and malkin

There is no chance Forsberg is ahead of Malkin at this stage.

The NHL-99 list from a couple of years ago already had Malkin ranked ahead of Forsberg, and since then Malkin has done some notable things like eclipse 500 goals and 1300 points.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Peter Forsberg is one of my favorite players ever but he is so overrated on HF.

 

[dirtydanglez]

There is no chance Forsberg is ahead of Malkin at this stage.

The NHL-99 list from a couple of years ago already had Malkin ranked ahead of Forsberg, and since then Malkin has done some notable things like eclipse 500 goals and 1300 points.

i guess it depends on if you are taking about career or skill. malkin had the better career. forsberg was the better player.

 

[Deas]

Here we go again.

Forsberg’s rating is extremely polarized when distinguishing between career totals and peak/prime capacity and talent.

Some overrate him because of the latter. A Swedish columnist once called him better than Gretzky and a few others also use too heavy descriptions now and then.

As a reaction to the above and his limited career totals my view is that more people however try to downplay him.

He was an elite producer for virtually all his career (10 out of the 11 seasons when he played more than 25% of the games) while being great allround, and about his goal scoring his playoff G/G is better than Selanne, Jagr, Sakic etc.

His career P/G is very high all time but of course helped by him not logging many games at an older age.

I don’t know what can be added. Depends on what you emphasize. We could add a third perspective/category: Accomplishments (awards, trophies, medals, wins).

I would then summarise it as this:

Career totals and ability to stay healthy - Not great

Career accomplishments - Great (despite the above)

Peak capacity and level when playing - Great+, with a case for a relatively high all time ranking in this specific category.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Peter Forsberg is one of my favorite players ever but he is so overrated on HF.

Quoted for truth.

 

[GoldenKnight]

i guess it depends on if you are taking about career or skill. malkin had the better career. forsberg was the better player.

Malkin was the better player, who also had the better career. That's despite also missing time to injuries in his prime years.

 

[authentic]

Malkin was the better player, who also had the better career. That's despite also missing time to injuries in his prime years.

Better player is close enough you can go either way but Malkin ultimately carved out a better career. Forsberg had a more consistently elite level of play in his prime in the regular season and playoffs though despite dealing with even more injuries.

 

[GoldenKnight]

Better player is close enough you can go either way but Malkin ultimately carved out a better career. Forsberg had a more consistently elite level of play in his prime

I disagree with that as well.

Malkin was top 10 in ppg ten times, Forsberg only eight times.

Malkin's consistency is underrated by some.

 

[authentic]

I disagree with that as well.

Malkin was top 10 in ppg ten times, Forsberg only eight times.

Malkin's consistency is underrated by some.

Some of those came later in his career not his prime so my point still stands. His consistency was not better than Forsbergs from season to season or in the playoffs, just go through their stats year by year and see for yourself.

 

[MrOT]

People don't really understand how good Forsberg was when healthy. And that's probably cause Forsberg was so stubborn he played through games worn and torn and willed through seasons on one foot missing games, fighting back, missing games, fighting back and so on. So people actually out of ignorance hold his health issues AGAINST his top 10 all time points per game resume, which is utterly ridiculous. From the playoffs 2002 until his groin injury problems came back 21 games (39 points) into the 2005-06 season he had an absolutely ridiculous ppg and if you count out his half injury/groin injury affected games, which he struggled through, it was Gretzky/Lemiuex level dominance for his era. A healthy Forsberg from 2002 onwards with no lockout in 2004-05 is probably regarded top 10 all time. Yes, it is hypothetical and all but that was the level of a healthy Forsberg at the time. Would be very interesting if somebody had the time to do an in depth breakdown removing the games Forsberg played injured, extract a ppg number from it and then era adjust it. I think most of you guys would be chocked by the result.

 

[MrOT]

Malkin was the better player, who also had the better career. That's despite also missing time to injuries in his prime years.

As @authentic writes Forsberg was more consistent, the stats are there to back it up. Forsberg also played through injuries a lot more which actually makes his ppg career numbers look worse than the level a healthy Forsberg represented. Forsberg was more consistently producing and was better defensively and physically. The only argument for Malkin is health (not that Malkin's health was very good either but still).

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Forsberg walks on water here.

The ability to stay healthy is pretty important and should not be overlooked.

 

[Albatros]

The ability to stay healthy is pretty important and should not be overlooked.

Difficult when the cause is innate and has nothing to do with hockey.

 

[daver]

Would be very interesting if somebody had the time to do an in depth breakdown removing the games Forsberg played injured, extract a ppg number from it and then era adjust it. I think most of you guys would be chocked by the result.

See post #62. He is not close to being a Top 10 talent offensively.

As @authentic writes Forsberg was more consistent, the stats are there to back it up. Forsberg also played through injuries a lot more which actually makes his ppg career numbers look worse than the level a healthy Forsberg represented. Forsberg was more consistently producing and was better defensively and physically. The only argument for Malkin is health (not that Malkin's health was very good either but still).

Malkin's 75 game season in 11/12 is clearly superior to Forsberg's 75 game season in 02/03.

Malkin's '09 playoffs is better than Forberg's best playoff run.

 

[Gerulaitis]

Usually the Art Ross winner is considered to have had the best offensive season.



And also how much he contributed to the Leafs offense. He had considerably less support than Federov; a big consideration in Hart voting.

Anyways, it was a great season by Federov but not a the level the narrative of "He won the Hart AND the Selke" would suggest.

Who is Federov?

I heard of Federko only

See post #62. He is not close to being a Top 10 talent offensively.



Malkin's 75 game season in 11/12 is clearly superior to Forsberg's 75 game season in 02/03.

Malkin's '09 playoffs is better than Forberg's best playoff run.

Hence, Malkin was more impactful than Forsberg

Actually, Malkin is underrated, too

 

[Toby91ca]

There was also a time, from the 2002 playoffs until halfway through the 2005-06 season where Forsberg was the hands down best player in the NHL, but between his injuries in 2003-04 and the lockout the following season it doesn’t get remembered as much, but he was putting up insane numbers for the time while combining an elite all around game and physical play. In a list of best of all time he narrowly missed the top 10 and depending on the day you ask me I could slide him into that 10th spot.

Around 10th best all time? Comments like this is why I suggest he is nowhere near underrated, quite the opposite

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

People don't really understand how good Forsberg was when healthy. And that's probably cause Forsberg was so stubborn he played through games worn and torn and willed through seasons on one foot missing games, fighting back, missing games, fighting back and so on. So people actually out of ignorance hold his health issues AGAINST his top 10 all time points per game resume, which is utterly ridiculous. From the playoffs 2002 until his groin injury problems came back 21 games (39 points) into the 2005-06 season he had an absolutely ridiculous ppg and if you count out his half injury/groin injury affected games, which he struggled through, it was Gretzky/Lemiuex level dominance for his era. A healthy Forsberg from 2002 onwards with no lockout in 2004-05 is probably regarded top 10 all time. Yes, it is hypothetical and all but that was the level of a healthy Forsberg at the time. Would be very interesting if somebody had the time to do an in depth breakdown removing the games Forsberg played injured, extract a ppg number from it and then era adjust it. I think most of you guys would be chocked by the result.

I remember that line of Gagne Forsberg and Knuble, Forsberg was truly great when he could play healthy.

 

[authentic]

Around 10th best all time? Comments like this is why I suggest he is nowhere near underrated, quite the opposite

At his peak? 100%. Better than a player like MacKinnon today who I’d probably have in my top 15. This is judging players from the 06 era and on mind you.

Who is Federov?

I heard of Federko only


Hence, Malkin was more impactful than Forsberg

Actually, Malkin is underrated, too

lol one single season and playoff run considering offense only to say Malkin was more impactful than Forsberg.

 

[authentic]

See post #62. He is not close to being a Top 10 talent offensively.



Malkin's 75 game season in 11/12 is clearly superior to Forsberg's 75 game season in 02/03.

Malkin's '09 playoffs is better than Forberg's best playoff run.

Well based on your very own thread his offensive production combined with his two-way play puts him right around there anyway. Leads the 2002 playoffs in scoring in 3 rounds, comes back and scores at a consistent 116 point pace for 114 straight games in a league that averages 5.28 and 5.14 goals per game (paces Crosby never scored at in any comparable season goals per game wise while playing 70+ games). Then starts off with 39 points in 21 games before his groin injury in 2005-06 which was leading the league once again. At worst that season he would finish a solid 3rd behind Thornton and Jagr, then who knows what he would’ve done in 2004-05. Oh yeah and he does this in 2002-03 with under 20 minutes of total ice time per game.

 

[Gerulaitis]

At his peak? 100%. Better than a player like MacKinnon today who I’d probably have in my top 15. This is judging players from the 06 era and on mind you.



lol one single season and playoff run considering offense only to say Malkin was more impactful than Forsberg.

I responded to that post about Malkin vs Forsberg.

Forsberg had one single season then (2002/23) and zero Conn Smythes.

Plus, Malkin has 2 Art Trophies in addition to the Hart and is more durable than Forsberg. He's still in the game with over .800 PPG which is excellent for his age

 

[Cruor]

...and zero Conn Smythes.

This is a bit reductionist wouldn't you agree? To the point it's almost useless in comparing players. I would put several of Forsberg's playoff runs above Crosby's 2016 Smythe, for example.

 

[daver]

This is a bit reductionist wouldn't you agree? To the point it's almost useless in comparing players. I would put several of Forsberg's playoff runs above Crosby's 2016 Smythe, for example.

Would you put any above Malkin's 2009 run?

 

[Cruor]

Would you put any above Malkin's 2009 run?

I wouldn't no, although I do think he was a better playoff performer holistically and all things considered.