Is Ovechkin the greatest LW ever?

[BobRouse]

I watched Bure a lot. I've read about him a lot. I know about him a lot.

There is not a chance in this world that Bure is better player than Ovechkin. Not a chance.

Ovechkin scored 106 points as a rookie in a team where the next highest scorer was Zubrus with 57 points.
Ovechkin scored 65 goals in a team where the next highest scorer was rookie Backstrom with 69 points.

Bure scored 58 and 59 goals back to back season in the middle of the dead puck era. But he was cherry picking like no-one else those seasons. When Bure actually had any kind of overall game was back in the early 90's.

There is effectively no case for Bure over Ovechkin. That debate died a long time a go.

If you are interested, go check out the discussion here:

About Ovechkin: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1743379

About Bure: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1770919

No doubt. But also wasn't Bure a RW? How is he even brought up in a thread about LWs?

Ovechkin has 3 more Harts, 1 more rocket and a slew more 1st team all star selections anyhow. Physical presence and durabiltiy that dwarfs Bure as well.

 

[Plural]

No doubt. But also wasn't Bure a RW? How is he even brought up in a thread about LWs?

Ovechkin has 3 more Hats, 1 more rocket and a slew more 1st team all star selections anyhow. Physical presence and durabiltiy that dwarfs Bure as well.

Yeah, you are right. I should have not answered to that. This is about LW's throughout history.

 

[AvsGuy]

Really, a guy who finished 5th, 5th, 9th and 10th in points in his career did it cause of Gretzky/Lemieux?

All right, I'll play.

In 87-88 Luc finished 5th in points behind Lemieux 168, Gretzky 149, Savard 131, Hawerchuk 121. He tied Messier and Stastny in points with 111. So, taking away #66/#99 Luc is tied for third in scoring.

In 91-92 Luc finished 5th in points behind Lemieux 131, Stevens 123, Gretzky 121, Hull 109. He tied Messier for 5th with 107. So, taking away Lemieux and Stevens (although that is quite dubious) and Gretzky Luc is tied for 2nd.

In 92-93 Luc finished 9th in points behind Lemieux 160, LaFontaine 148, Oates 142, Yzerman 137, Selanne 132, Turgeon 132, Mogilny 127, Gilmour 127. Robitaille had 125 points. Take away Lemieux and he is 8th.

In 88-89 Luc finished 10th in points behind Lemieux 199, Gretzky 168, Yzerman 155, Nicholls 150, Brown 115, Coffey 113, Mullen 110, Kurri 103, Carson 100. Luc had 98 points. Take away Lemieux and Gretzky and he is 8th.

This is all done without taking any consideration to the fact that Luc played in the same team as Gretzky did.

Now we have Luc with point finishes of 2nd, 3rd, 8th and 8th. Without adjusting the Gretzky factor. So we are really being generous for him here.

Could you point out the reason why Luc never received a single Hart vote?

Edit: Are you seriously asking the Hull question? Brett played 1269 games opposed to Luc who played 1431 games. Robitaille scored 1394 points and Hull amassed 1391 points. So, Brett lost by three points and played almost 200 less games. Does that answer your question?

Yeah it does answer my questions actually, thank you. That's exactly what I was wondering.

Bear in mind I'm not even a Robitaille fan at all, I just wondered how he got to be the highest scoring LW of all time without actually being one of the best LWs of all time. Was it a longevity thing? Because you can look at guys like Ron Francis or Mike Gartner who were never ever the best at their positions, and yet they finished with insane point totals like Robitaille did.

 

[WilliamNylander]

Yes imo Ovie is the best LW of all time

 

[Plural]

Yeah it does answer my questions actually, thank you. That's exactly what I was wondering.

Bear in mind I'm not even a Robitaille fan at all, I just wondered how he got to be the highest scoring LW of all time without actually being one of the best LWs of all time. Was it a longevity thing? Because you can look at guys like Ron Francis or Mike Gartner who were never ever the best at their positions, and yet they finished with insane point totals like Robitaille did.

It's a mix of everything. Luc was no slouch. He was a high end LW for most of his career. Consistently among the upper end of scorers. One of the things that explains a lot is this:

The season Luc scored 125 points, he was 9th in scoring. Can you imagine someone scoring 125 points today and end up at 9th. For reference, last season Ovechkin finished 8th in points. He had 79 points. The difference is 46 points and Ovechkin still fared better agains his peers. In terms of points of course.

Don't get me wrong, I do think Luc was a great player and he deserves his spot in the Hall of Fame. But career point totals can be really misleading. Phil Housley 1232 points as a defenseman. That's good for 4th most points by a defenseman ever. Yet, nobody is thinking Housley is in the same stratosphere as the other guys in his point range.

 

[Islands]

Ovi is the best LW of all time!

 

[authentic]

What's amazing about Ovechkin is his durability. He hasn't had one long term injury in his career yet, it's just incredible.

 

[Son Goku]

If he can string together a few more good seasons as stay around PPG I definitely think so. The guys an animal.

 

[CapsCrazyX17]

What's amazing about Ovechkin is his durability. He hasn't had one long term injury in his career yet, it's just incredible.

I've been amazed by that too. I remember during his first couple of years when everyone was convinced he'd be injury prone because of his style of play. If I'm not mistaken, I think he's missed more time in his career from suspensions and family emergencies than actual injuries.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Could you point out the reason why Luc never received a single Hart vote?

Because in a league dominated by Gretzky, Messier, and Lemieux, the write-in votes tended to be for some of the HoF goalies who may have deserved more love than they got, themselves. During Robitaille's best seasons the Hart ballots heavily feature the Gretzkys, Lemieuxs, Messiers, Yzerman (and Hull when he bagged 86), etc. with guys like Fuhr, Roy, Belfour, etc. only occasionally garnering some attention in the days before the Dominator. Even a guy like Ray Bourque, who, man-for-man, may have been more "valuable" than most if not all of them, struggled to even get top 3 finishes in Hart votes over this same stretch (and, in fact, has 0 to show for his career).

Nature of the late '80s/early '90s beast. Not a lot of impetus to recognize supremely valuable (and talented/productive) players on teams that weren't winning divisions/conferences back then, either.

 

[mariemarie]

All the great centers can play wing...so ovechkin aint really the best lw. Ovechkin great one timer but the ideal choice is a center at wing.

 

[Voight]

People need to realize this int a hate Robitaille thread. He is a top 3 LW of all time just a couple levels down from Hull and Ovy. That is by no means bad.

 

[OVs Gold Chain*]

Yes. The answer to the OP, is yes.

 

[ResilientBeast]

People need to realize this int a hate Robitaille thread. He is a top 3 LW of all time just a couple levels down from Hull and Ovy. That is by no means bad.

He is not in my top 3 for LW wingers, heck all time he falls in the teens (10-15)

 

[mrv52]

I am a little surprised this has not been mentioned in this thread yet, but through the first 10 years of each Hull and Ovechkins career, Ovechkin has a higher GPG and PPG than Hull, by a fair margin.

I am sure there is some adjustment needed for era's and someone will likely point that out.

As other have pointed out, Ovechkin will have to continue producing for at least the next 6 or 7 years as Hull put up some really good numbers in his 30's.

Certainly not the end all and be all argument, but worth noting.

 

[illpucks]

GOATvechkin is GOAT. Best LW and best player in the NHL.

 

[FinRuutu]

All the great centers can play wing...so ovechkin aint really the best lw. Ovechkin great one timer but the ideal choice is a center at wing.

 

[ashenhigh]

All the great centers can play wing...so ovechkin aint really the best lw. Ovechkin great one timer but the ideal choice is a center at wing.

I think I just found Crosby's smurf HF account....

 

[Voight]

Crazy to think how much higher Hulls point totals would be if he hadn't left the league in his early 30's and stayed until, say 38. Obviously he wouldn't be scoring his peak numbers but I'd like to think he would've been ok.

 

[RDA96]

I think if Ovi can get a couple more hearts with a cup and a Smythe then he will be the greatest left winger.

 

[tempofound]

I am a little surprised this has not been mentioned in this thread yet, but through the first 10 years of each Hull and Ovechkins career, Ovechkin has a higher GPG and PPG than Hull, by a fair margin.

I am sure there is some adjustment needed for era's and someone will likely point that out.

As other have pointed out, Ovechkin will have to continue producing for at least the next 6 or 7 years as Hull put up some really good numbers in his 30's.

Certainly not the end all and be all argument, but worth noting.

Era adjustments might actually make OV look better. But the "10 first years" criteria unfairly favours Ovie. Ovie came into the legue as a 20 year old and was already a star. Hull came in as an 18 year old and wasn't a star until he was... 20 years old.

Comparing OV 10 season to Hull 10 seasons in the same age span:

OV: 730 GP 453 G 410 A 863 P GPG: 0.62 PPG: 1.18
Hull: 679 GP 441 G 359 A 800 P GPG: 0.65 PPG: 1.18

During OVs 10-year span #Goals per game in the NHL between 2.54 and 2.93.
During Hulls 10-year span #Goals per game in the NHL between 2.75 and 3.01.

Hull obviously has longevity on his side and a cup. But yeah if OV can keep up like he has this year and put in some good POs then he could end up being considered #1 LW all-time.