Is Ovechkin the greatest LW ever?

[Trottier]

...Was that an era of the dinosaurs or earlier?

I wonder: is this an era where the modern hockey fan has utter disrespect and disregard for anything that happened before his self-important dome hatched from the womb?

Your post suggests as much. I suspect you are in the minority, thankfully.

Relish the present (Ovechkin). And learn about and respect the past (Lindsay; Hull).

Just my opinion.

Back to informed discussion: I'll defer to others with regard to #9 and Terrible Ted. The latter was before my time and Hull was on his way out as I was on my way in as a hockey fan. But for during my adult life, Ovechkin is right there...and he has many years left to write more chapters in his favor all-time. If he brings his 2014-15 game the rest of his career, he will have won this fan over. I am extremely impressed with his play this season, exponentially more so than in the past.

 

[Plural]

Back to informed discussion: I'll defer to others with regard to #9 and Terrible Ted. The latter was before my time and Hull was on his way out as I was on my way in as a hockey fan. But for during my adult life, Ovechkin is right there...and he has many years left to write more chapters in his favor all-time. If he brings his 2014-15 game the rest of his career, he will have won this fan over. I am extremely impressed with his play this season, exponentially more so than in the past.

Canadiens made a good point about Ovechkin in another thread.

Watched Ovechkin earlier this month against Philadelphia,Pittsburgh and yesterday against Montreal. Trotz has him paying attention to the basics, proper turns etc. better on ice and situational awareness. Also in better shape than last year or since the shortened season.

season the two Mahovlich comparisons but the Mahovlich brothers had a history of playing center. Doubt that any coach would chance Ovi at center.

Having watched Ovechkin this year, I agree. It's the little things that Ovechkin now makes that have had a huge difference on his effectiveness. He has not sacrificed his offense, but he has been more effective on the ice. It is not clear at first sight, especially if one is not used to look for these things. But Ovechkin is playing the game better.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

I want to say yes. All due respect to the greats of the past, but I simply don't think competition has ever been as tight as it is in the modern era and thus leading the league in any category with as great a consistency as was possible pre-90s seems much more difficult. While the Crosbys and Ovechkins of the world may not be any better than the Jagrs and Sakics were, I'm going to go ahead and say that the Jay McClements and Dominic Moores of the league are much better hockey players than the fourth liners of the 60s and 70s. Overall, I find the talent gap between all star and plug to be smaller than ever, which is why there's less space than ever on the ice and depth is the word of the day.

 

[Plural]

I want to say yes. All due respect to the greats of the past, but I simply don't think competition has ever been as tight as it is in the modern era and thus leading the league in any category with as great a consistency as was possible pre-90s seems much more difficult. While the Crosbys and Ovechkins of the world may not be any better than the Jagrs and Sakics were, I'm going to go ahead and say that the Jay McClements and Dominic Moores of the league are much better hockey players than the fourth liners of the 60s and 70s. Overall, I find the talent gap between all star and plug to be smaller than ever, which is why there's less space than ever on the ice and depth is the word of the day.

There is a good, almost bulletproof, evidence on the idea that Original Six era had the toughest competition ever.

But you have a point. In this day, with the salary cap and the parity in league, it is much more difficult to stand out than it was during some other times. But this usually results in great players never winning the cup. The greatest ever will still stand out.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

There is a good, almost bulletproof, evidence on the idea that Original Six era had the toughest competition ever.

But you have a point. In this day, with the salary cap and the parity in league, it is much more difficult to stand out than it was during some other times. But this usually results in great players never winning the cup. The greatest ever will still stand out.

Well he certainly does stand out as is.

 

[BenchBrawl]

No, but he is close.

Bobby Hull is still the best LWer.

 

[Trottier]

...Having watched Ovechkin this year, I agree. It's the little things that Ovechkin now makes that have had a huge difference on his effectiveness. He has not sacrificed his offense, but he has been more effective on the ice. It is not clear at first sight, especially if one is not used to look for these things. But Ovechkin is playing the game better.

Well said. (And Canadiens knows his hockey. )

Subtle changes, But exceedingly critical changes.

It's fun to observe. And clearly it's affecting his team. Credit to coach for asking Ovechkin to adapt his game, again albeit subtly. And credit to Ovechkin for taking the challenge and running with it.

This has always been Ovechkin's team. but this is not your 2009 Capitals. Who knows where they go come April - injuries, goaltending all are so huge.

That said, this is the best Caps team (read: most playoff ready Caps team) since #8 arrived in the NHL. Easily.

And, in large part, it's because #8 is the best he has ever been. Make that: the best player he has ever been. As you said, he is playing the game better.

 

[Plural]

Well he certainly does stand out as is.

Yes, most definitely. He is not that far off from Hull and if he continues on this path there might be a good case for him to be above Hull. My guess is that he will still fall short. But he is right up there with Hull when all is said and done.

 

[Nsjohnson]

His play has noticeably regressed. He no longer attacks the net or drives possession like he used to. Which has made his once excellent forechecking somewhat neutralized. And when his defensive play without the puck could be, at the best of times described as not a liability, then the its a big deal. He has failed to adapt his play and remain dynamic since the loss of his explosiveness. Instead taking his game to the perimeter and capitalizing on PP opportunities as they come. While still physical, he no longer possesses the ability to throw game-changing hits, due to forechecking/explosiveness regression. Stats may still look nice, but being a glorified Brett Hull leaves a lot to be desired.

This is all wrong. He has scaled back his 'game breaking' -ness and instead added a level of team play and a level of defensive play. He is no longer just a one man wreckingball goal scorer who disregards his teammates and defense. So what? If he plays the way he is right now for another 5 years, he will be in the same breaths as the greats. If he isn't already.

 

[WarriorofTime]

If filling out an all time roster, Ovechkin certainly makes the roster.


And he'd probably occupy a point spot on the first unit power play.

 

[Plural]

If filling out an all time roster, Ovechkin certainly makes the roster.


And he'd probably occupy a point spot on the first unit power play.

Not taking in to account any chemistry:

Hull - Gretzky - Howe
Lindsay - Lemieux - Richard
Ovechkin - Beliveau - Jagr
Mahovlich - Mikita - Lafleur

I opted Mikita above Morenz, which is probably not that popular choice.

 

[sharkhawk]

I want to say yes. All due respect to the greats of the past, but I simply don't think competition has ever been as tight as it is in the modern era and thus leading the league in any category with as great a consistency as was possible pre-90s seems much more difficult. While the Crosbys and Ovechkins of the world may not be any better than the Jagrs and Sakics were, I'm going to go ahead and say that the Jay McClements and Dominic Moores of the league are much better hockey players than the fourth liners of the 60s and 70s. Overall, I find the talent gap between all star and plug to be smaller than ever, which is why there's less space than ever on the ice and depth is the word of the day.

I agree that it's tougher to be at the top now with parity and the salary cap, however, I think the 4th liners in the 60's were probably closer to the top players than they are now. In the O6 era there were only 120 NHL players compared to over 600 today, growth in the game has added to the talent pool, but I'm not sure it's 5 times greater. A guy like John Scott or Tanner Glass would have had no chance to make it to the NHL back then.

 

[zenthusiast]

Hard to respect a guy with no ESPY

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

His play has noticeably regressed. He no longer attacks the net or drives possession like he used to. Which has made his once excellent forechecking somewhat neutralized. And when his defensive play without the puck could be, at the best of times described as not a liability, then the its a big deal. He has failed to adapt his play and remain dynamic since the loss of his explosiveness. Instead taking his game to the perimeter and capitalizing on PP opportunities as they come. While still physical, he no longer possesses the ability to throw game-changing hits, due to forechecking/explosiveness regression. Stats may still look nice, but being a glorified Brett Hull leaves a lot to be desired.

Wait... Being a glorified first ballot hall of famer leaves something, let alone a lot, to be desired?

 

[kmad]

I don't think he's going to pass Bobby Hull.

He'll probably get to #2 though.

 

[drganon]

You never saw Bure in his prime if you believe this to be true.

Most electrifying player I've ever seen

Yeah, Bure was more fun to watch, Ovechkin is the better player. He edges him out goal scoring wise, better playmaker and much better durability. The Stats and hardware prove it.

 

[Johnnydrama21]

One thing I don't think I mentioned in the piece that always weighs heavily for me in convos like this: was he one of the best in the game at his position or in general? Good as Robitaille was, the bulk of his career he was pretty good, not great. Ovechkin and Hull were pretty much elite all the time.

 

[Petri1981]

He would be described as the greatest goal scorer of all time if he was a canadian. He will end up having +700 goals and that is the most impressive goal scoring feat in the history of NHL when adjusted to this low scoring era

 

[Sinistril]

Jagr who was on a similar career trajectory when he was Ovechkin's current age, looked primed to score 800 goals. He's in the low 700's right now.

It takes so many things going your way to even get to 800 goals, consistency, health, luck, team factors.

Ovechkin could be one big injury away from not being as effective anymore.

Thank you for the Jagr comparison... because at this age, Jagr had less goals than Ovechkin. In more games, he had fewer goals than Ovechkin. And he played 3 seasons where he would have probably gotten 20-30 goals apiece in each (not including the lockout seasons). So Jagr would be pushing 800... and he, at no point, was outpacing Ovechkin. So why can't Ovechkin do it?

 

[BobRouse]

Yeah, Bure was more fun to watch, Ovechkin is the better player. He edges him out goal scoring wise, better playmaker and much better durability. The Stats and hardware prove it.

Personal preference RE: Bure. IMO Ovechkin's physical presence puts him above Bure in the entertainment factor.

His Hart in 2013 was a joke; he was invisible for the first 1/4 of the season and beat up on the south least teams for the remainder of the season. .

Well if you want to go there thats fine. But what about 09-10? He was easily the best player in the league and lost out to Sedin. He missed 10 games and still put up 109 pts and 50 goals on a president's trophy winning team.

Sedin played the full 82 games and finished with 3 more points and 21 fewer goals. (for kicks Ovechkin finished that season a +45 compared to Sedin's +35)

If want to take away his 2013 hart then you have to give him the 09-10 hart.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He would be described as the greatest goal scorer of all time if he was a canadian.

Go jump in the lake with this crap.

He will end up having +700 goals and that is the most impressive goal scoring feat in the history of NHL when adjusted to this low scoring era

What matters is dominance vs era. Bobby Hull led the league in goals 7 times before leaving for the AHL, that's damn impressive. Personally, I take Richard (RW) in the AT rankings due to his dominance in the playoffs (and the fact he was competing against Howe) but either way...

OV is absolutely awesome and the fact that he's being talked about in the same sentence as Bobby Hull is a testament to how good he's been. So please get lost with this "if he were Canadian" garbage.

 

[Plural]

What matters is dominance vs era. Bobby Hull led the league in goals 7 times before leaving for the AHL, that's damn impressive. Personally, I take Richard due to his dominance in the playoffs (and the fact he was competing against Howe) but either way...

OV is absolutely awesome and the fact that he's being talked about in the same sentence as Bobby Hull is a testament to how good he's been. So please get lost with this "if he were Canadian" garbage.

So, he was sent down cause he was no longer effective?

It's WHA not AHL.

Also, Richard is RW.

 

[Tutu to]

both Crosby and malkin are much better.

 

[Plural]

both Crosby and malkin are much better.

They are not even in the same realm. Paul Kariya is better than both COMBINED!

 

[octopi]

both Crosby and malkin are much better.

I wasn't aware they were left wings.I think Nick Lidstrom is better than all of them as players, but this is about whether Ovechkin is the best left wing of all time.