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is one year of tanking in our best interest long term?

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Kessel.

Apparently Kessel has a NMC as he enters UFA.We either trade him or sign him this year or risk losing him for nothing.Seguin and Hamilton for a winger who never got us into the playoffs then walked for free before Seguin or Hamilton even came close to their prime would in essense be one of the worst trades ever.Thus many want to get something instead of nothing.
 
I understand why a lot of people want a 'competitive' team from the Leafs this year.

But if there was ever a year to do what Phoenix did some years back, its this year and get rid of pieces that will help them MOVING FORWARD.

Will the Leafs make the playoffs this year? No.
Will the Leafs be in last place? They most certainly could be.

What's better 10 overall pick and no playoffs?
Or 1st-3rd overall pick and no playoffs?
Seems lika no brainer to me.
 
Drmckool said:
I don't really understand this talk of trading Kessel. From an asset management perspective moving Kessel only makes sense if we can add more value than if we kept him, keeping in mind the added baggage of the price the Leafs paid for him.
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I don't understand it either. I mean, if you draft Nathan Mackinnon, I imagine that if he managed 3 or 4 30 goal seasons and a top six scoring finish by the age of 24-25 you'd call that a success.

I mean, I'd be tanking for Mackinnon so he can play with Kessel!

Or conversely, I'd try to win to better the case of keeping Kessel and also making Toronto an attractive UFA destination and start signing those kinds of Perry/Getzlaf/Malkin/Stamkos level UFAs in the next few years on a consistent basis while getting better all the time.
 
MakeTheIronSing said:
I understand why a lot of people want a 'competitive' team from the Leafs this year.

But if there was ever a year to do what Phoenix did some years back, its this year and get rid of pieces that will help them MOVING FORWARD.

Will the Leafs make the playoffs this year? No.
Will the Leafs be in last place? They most certainly could be.

What's better 10 overall pick and no playoffs?
Or 1st-3rd overall pick and no playoffs?
Seems lika no brainer to me.
Click to expand...

Well, I'd actually prefer it if we squeaked into the playoffs and the team started developing some winning experience, be an attractive location for UFAs to come to, and pick up an Erik Karlsson/Claude Giroux steal in the draft because our big scouting staff did their home work than to put all of our hopes on a single 18 year old who in a few years time might be as good as Kessel is today.

I mean this isn't 2009 anymore and all we have in the system is Kaberle/Antropov/Ponikarovsky/Schenn/Hagman
 
Can someone please explain how to tank a season?

How do you tell hockey players in your dressing room to not win and make sure you end up in the bottom of the standings. What kind of message does that teach young hockey players and why would a vet want to stick around for that ****.

So we tank and get Nathan Mckinnon. So does he turn this franchise around in 1 season and we make the playoffs? Is he #99 and that good to turn a whole franchise around in 1 year.

Now how to you tell your guys hey boys we got Mckinnon now this year lets go for it and make the playoffs. How you can you tell NHL players that to their face and expect them to believe you that some 18 year old kid is going to lead this team to the playoffs cause they tanked.

Enough with the tanking talk.
 
No team will tank for the sake of tanking. Get that in your thick heads. A winning culture, working hard every game, is what is important. Lots of great players get drafted in the 5-15 range.

Play to win, and draft better. Lots of great teams have done that, why can't the Leafs?
 
LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
Kessel fits in our top 6 easily he was 6th in scoring last year you keep him if you can put him on Mackinnon wing if we can draft him and hopefully sign a goalie this offseason
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Sure he fits in just about any Top6 in the NHL.

However my point was Do Kessel/Kadri/Grabo all fit into our Top6? Soaking wet they each go about 175lb - What happens when they run up against the Bruins and get hemmed in their own end? The same thing we've seen year after year - 9-1 scores. Utter embarrassments.

So management would need to make a decision - who's expendable? Its evident with the Grabo signing that he's here for the long run ... And I'd bet my money on being a Championship with the likes of Kadri+An Elite Goalie Prospect and a Young Power Forward everyday of the week over Phil Kessel's services.

Bottom line you'll get Max Value out of Kessel - and what will you have lost? A couple Goals For? A lot less Goals against?



"One arrow alone can be easily broken but many arrows are indestructible."
Genghis Khan
 
Stephen said:
Well, I'd actually prefer it if we squeaked into the playoffs and the team started developing some winning experience, be an attractive location for UFAs to come to, and pick up an Erik Karlsson/Claude Giroux steal in the draft because our big scouting staff did their home work than to put all of our hopes on a single 18 year old who in a few years time might be as good as Kessel is today.

I mean this isn't 2009 anymore and all we have in the system is Kaberle/Antropov/Ponikarovsky/Schenn/Hagman
Click to expand...

There isnt a team in the NHL that is competitive without depth, and I will give you the fact that there cupboard is a lot more full than it was a couple years ago.

But, it's a shortened season, and the Leafs have a new GM. He may want to put his stamp on this team by having his pick of the litter in the draft.

I think Nonis could easily say, 'we need a high draft pick moving forward to fill up some more holes that are really apparent'. At some point, this number 1 centre issue needs to get resolved, and laying hopes and prayers on RFAs and that is just a silly way of building a FRANCHISE, not a team.

You want a franchise, do it in the draft. You want to win a couple more games to see 'competitive' hockey, then go about business as usual.
 
DaveT83 said:
Sure he fits in just about any Top6 in the NHL.

However my point was Do Kessel/Kadri/Grabo all fit into our Top6? Soaking wet they each go about 175lb - What happens when they run up against the Bruins and get hemmed in their own end? The same thing we've seen year after year - 9-1 scores. Utter embarrassments.

So management would need to make a decision - who's expendable? Its evident with the Grabo signing that he's here for the long run ... And I'd bet my money on being a Championship with the likes of Kadri+An Elite Goalie Prospect and a Young Power Forward everyday of the week over Phil Kessel's services.

Bottom line you'll get Max Value out of Kessel - and what will you have lost? A couple Goals For? A lot less Goals against?



"One arrow alone can be easily broken but many arrows are indestructible."
Genghis Khan
Click to expand...

Kadri is nothing he's not an asset anymore
 
ryno23 said:
Can someone please explain how to tank a season?

How do you tell hockey players in your dressing room to not win and make sure you end up in the bottom of the standings. What kind of message does that teach young hockey players and why would a vet want to stick around for that ****.

So we tank and get Nathan Mckinnon. So does he turn this franchise around in 1 season and we make the playoffs? Is he #99 and that good to turn a whole franchise around in 1 year.

Now how to you tell your guys hey boys we got Mckinnon now this year lets go for it and make the playoffs. How you can you tell NHL players that to their face and expect them to believe you that some 18 year old kid is going to lead this team to the playoffs cause they tanked.

Enough with the tanking talk.
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you don't TELL them to lose but look at this team unless reimer gets back to rookie form they will lose WAY more then they win and this year that might be for the best
 
It's hilarious how many people think there is a causal connection between finishing with a top 5 pick and "tanking". I suppose if you define 'tanking' as any team finishing with a top 5 pick, then yeah. However, this would be definitional, not causal.

But, nevertheless, still hilarious.
 
I doubt we tank.

Our best bet is see what we have and dump at the deadline if we are out of it.We can forget about Luongo, he(Gillis) is trying to blackmail Toronto demanding Kadri and Gardiner.Meanwhile, he will trade him elsewhere for far less.Everyone wants to pick our pockets but Luongo does not guarantee playoffs as some claim.One can't target the first overall but one can trade up to get it.Anything can happen in 48 game season where injuries will be a major factor.We have youth,let's see what happens then if we are out of it in April we can guide the team downwards by jettisoning players who wont be here when we become competitvie anyway.

I want to at least give Reimer 10 games to show me which goalie he is,the one before the injury or the one after.We may be .500 after 10 games as a vet goalie becomes available.With 2/3rds of his second line injured and pressure to win now,Gillis will be in trouble if they start slow.
 
I should also say that if this team suprises me and wins 4 out of 5 I'm OK with that to that is fine but I don't expect it.
 
DaveT83 said:
I think facing Boston/NYR in the first round would ruin the careers of some of the players on this team. I'm not exaggerating. They would be emotionally damaged beyond repair. See Komi + Lucic.

The embarrasment suffered in a Physical beat down by Boston in the first round of the Stanley Cup Playoffs might actually be worse for player development than finishing in the bottom 5 lol
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If a situation like that broke a guy he shouldn't be near the team in the first place he obviously doesn't have the mental strength to perform at the highest levels. I certainly hope all those guys remember what the Bruins did to us last year, they are the things that should inspire players not to let it happen again. You don't need to fight with your fists to be a scrapper, next time we play Boston i hope the leafs take every dirty cheap shot opportunity show them we aren't cowards last year was a disgrace.Brown cant do it all.
 
DaveT83 said:
Sure he fits in just about any Top6 in the NHL.

However my point was Do Kessel/Kadri/Grabo all fit into our Top6? Soaking wet they each go about 175lb - What happens when they run up against the Bruins and get hemmed in their own end? The same thing we've seen year after year - 9-1 scores. Utter embarrassments.
Click to expand...
Size and weight is so overrated the bigger they are the harder they fall. The hardest hitting rugby players are never big guys its all about not pulling out when you pull out of a hit is when the other guy will run you over. Look at Frattin especially his big hits last year were from guys trying to hit him and bouncing off because he stayed moving hard and didn't try side step them.
 
Sundinisagod said:
Do you understand that the lottery is heavily weighed in favour of the the worse teams? And did you know that you don't need the #1 overall to get a #1 center this year? Probably be able to get that #1 C in the top 6 or 7...

I wonder if Burke was canned for his refusal to tank, while still not even coming close to the playoffs, and having no Tavares or Stamkos types to show for it?
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man you cracked it. the secret is out. the owners and board are mad BB's teams won too many games...
 
It's not about tanking from the outset.

It's about not winning meaningless games when it's clear you suck. There are very many ways to decrease the odds of this happening.
 
Maybe it would, but you can't plan on tanking. It doesn't work that way.

Planning on tanking and getting the first overall pick is as hard as winning the Cup. You have a 1/30 chance of doing both.
 
ryno23 said:
Can someone please explain how to tank a season?

How do you tell hockey players in your dressing room to not win and make sure you end up in the bottom of the standings. What kind of message does that teach young hockey players and why would a vet want to stick around for that ****.

So we tank and get Nathan Mckinnon. So does he turn this franchise around in 1 season and we make the playoffs? Is he #99 and that good to turn a whole franchise around in 1 year.

Now how to you tell your guys hey boys we got Mckinnon now this year lets go for it and make the playoffs. How you can you tell NHL players that to their face and expect them to believe you that some 18 year old kid is going to lead this team to the playoffs cause they tanked.

Enough with the tanking talk.
Click to expand...

with little change to no change on defense and no change in goal, I don't expect much change this season unless:

1: Reimer steps up and becomes a legit NHL starting caliber goaltender.
2: JVR is able to break out and live up to expectations.
3: the top line needs to keep growing and expanding on what they did last season
4: The second line needs to step it up again and be what they were a few years ago.
5: The defense needs to be a lot better then what they have been.

could go on and on. There is just to many things that haven't changed, I personally don't believe we can win with the current core of players we have. But I think with the shortened season this could be our best chance to make the playoffs since the last lockout. A start like last year and we are a playoff team, then anything can happen, but I would defiantly love to see us get into the playoffs and let these guys see what playoff hockey is like in Toronto.
 
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