admiralcadillac
Registered User
- Oct 22, 2017
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Are Dionne, Lafontaine, Mogilny, Sakic, Yzerman, Oates, etc. generational talents?
Feel like you could say the same for Ovi. Most of his career on absolutely stacked teams.Here is a simple question and observation. Make a list of the top 20 players over the last say 15 years. If it was their draft year and all were the same age and everything else. Would you take him over all of the players. Do you take him over Sidney Crosby? McDavid? Malkin? Alex O? If you say no, Than he is not a generation talent? I think he is a very good player. But how would McDavid's stats look if he had both Hedman and Vasilevesky on his team? Look who McDavid has, Nurse and Skinner. I like Kucherov but the fact he had two studs behind him his entire career has helped.
Feel like you could say the same for Ovi. Most of his career on absolutely stacked teams.
If it is Crosby and Ovechkin, it should probably be Kucherov. Where does the generation change though? Is MacKinnon and Mcdavid the next generation?
Sure, yeah, as I said it's a judgment call and I wouldn't hold it against anyone.I don't see why we wouldn't take the development years into account. The fact that McDavid entered the league at 18, played half a season with the 3rd best point scoring rate in the league, and then won the Art Ross the next season is a massive plus in his case for being a generational player. Kucherov not looking like one of the best players in the world until he was halfway through his 20s, meanwhile, is a negative.
The vast majority of players who are deemed generational had immediate impact that lasted for a long time. The ones that didn't (Hasek who wasn't viewed as the best goalie in the world until his late 20s, or Orr whose career was cut short) dominated in ways that left no doubt that they were generational.
Kucherov is a very good player. He has spent years of being one of the best players in the game. But he's not generational.
I agree with this. But, again, as someone who watched A LOT of both Yzerman and Kucherov, I do think Kucherov is the more dangerous scorer. And while Yzerman had longevity on his side, the first half of Kucherov's career compares pretty favorably. 4 100 point seasons despite two covid years (where he paced for 100), two scoring titles, a Hart...Then again, during the brightest days of Yzerman and Sakic there wasn't salary cap ripping up teams that managed to get something done. Winning two cups today is _a lot_ harder than it was like 30 years ago. Not only the salary cap, but there's like 20 % more teams too and even the worst teams are more competitive than ever - not in a sense that for example Sharks would win Stanley Cup this season, but in a sense that if you give any team, say, five years, they have a pretty good chance to give a serious run to the Cup.
What makes Yzerman and Sakic much better than Kucherov right now are the durations of their careers. This obviously is totally unfair against Kucherov, because he simply isn't that old yet and just as obviously he has a chance to have such a long career, remains to be seen.
It might happen again, but it would probably be McDavid again -- clearly a generational talent.I could even place a bet of 100+ assist season happening again by the end of 2029-30 season.
I would agree with this, Kucherov has more elite assets to his game.
Since when do we identify players by their nationality? X is a generational player when it comes to swedes. It would be a pretty low bar if we had a record book for say german hockey players. It also seems weird when you separate by forward position. X is a generational winger, but, is the 5th best forward.Sure, yeah, as I said it's a judgment call and I wouldn't hold it against anyone.
But the other piece to consider is that Kucherov is still at his peak - he just had his best season ever at 30, and is off to another scorching start. Kane is likely done with All Star nominations and awards.
We can't count his cabinet until the door is shut.
As an aside - in regards to dominating in ways that left no doubt, Kucherov now has the 2 highest scoring seasons by a Russian player ever, and set the single season assists record by a winger (by 13!), after tying it a few seasons prior. 3 of the top 6 assist seasons by a winger in NHL history belong to Nikita Kucherov. Without missing a season and a half in his peak, he'd probably have more. In my mind, he's one of the most dominant playmaking wingers we've ever seen. It's a rare combination.
Then again, during the brightest days of Yzerman and Sakic there wasn't salary cap ripping up teams that managed to get something done. Winning two cups today is _a lot_ harder than it was like 30 years ago. Not only the salary cap, but there's like 20 % more teams too and even the worst teams are more competitive than ever - not in a sense that for example Sharks would win Stanley Cup this season, but in a sense that if you give any team, say, five years, they have a pretty good chance to give a serious run to the Cup.
What makes Yzerman and Sakic much better than Kucherov right now are the durations of their careers. This obviously is totally unfair against Kucherov, because he simply isn't that old yet and just as obviously he has a chance to have such a long career, remains to be seen.
kinda forgot someone didnt you?I wouldn't say clearly but you can argue he's second best.
All three of Kucherov, Draisailt, and Matthews can be argued for second best forward in past 5 years. Either all three are generational or none are.
There are not four generational forwards in their prime in the NHL right now.
It's unfair to list Kucherov's best teammates and leave out McDavid's. If we try that teammate swap, Tampa becomes worse in goal (which doesn't directly influence forward production), but Kucherov would probably score even more with Bouchard and Draisaitl...But how would McDavid's stats look if he had both Hedman and Vasilevesky on his team? Look who McDavid has, Nurse and Skinner. I like Kucherov but the fact he had two studs behind him his entire career has helped.
McDavid has had Leon and that is it. Kuch has had ten seasons of supportIt's unfair to list Kucherov's best teammates and leave out McDavid's. If we try that teammate swap, Tampa becomes worse in goal (which doesn't directly influence forward production), but Kucherov would probably score even more with Bouchard and Draisaitl...
Kucherov is as good or possibly better then prime Ovechkin imo
Kucherov's best season is 144 points with 2 cups. Ovechkin's best season is 112 points with only 1 cup. He will also have more 100 point seasons after this year most likely and he's only 31. He could have another 2-3, 100 point years.People really believe this?