Is Nikita Kucherov a Generational Talent? (Based on his NHL Career)

[T REX]

Matthews isn't ****ing generational man...

Get your own bashing matthews thread...this for Kuch only.

Have some respect LOL

 

[Hockey Outsider]

- Bossy wasn't just a goal scoring machine, he averaged 1.49 PPG. By comparison, Jagr - who rode shotgun to #66 for of his best years - had 1.33 PPG, again, only counting his prime Pittsburgh seasons (11 in total).

So saying he was third wheel in the Island is laughable, and not above Jagr?

From age 21 to 30 (which was Bossy's entire career), he averaged 1.50 ppg.

From age 21 to 30, Jagr averaged 1.41 ppg. Bossy outscored Jagr by about 6% (per game) - but the leaguewide level of offense was about 32% higher during Bossy's career. Jagr was a much better point producer than Bossy.

That comparison captures Bossy's entire career. For Jagr, that excludes one season where he was runner-up for the Hart, Art Ross and Richard trophies (2006), another year where he was 8th in scoring (2007), and another year where he was 7th in Hart voting (2016). Granted, Jagr wasn't scoring 1.41 PPG in his 30's, but he was still a very good player, whereas Bossy was already retired.

As for the comment about riding shotgun with Lemieux - Jagr placed in the top five in scoring eight times. Six times, this was without Lemieux (1995, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2002, 2006). They were teammates in 1996 and half of 2001. So Jagr played with Lemieux in 1.5 of his best 8 years. (Not to mention - Bossy played with Denis Potvin and Bryan Trottier, two of the top 30 players of all-time, for virtually all of his career).

For the ten years where their careers overlapped, Bryan Trottier finished way ahead of Mike Bossy in Hart voting. It wasn't even close. Trottier was a much better playmaker than Bossy, and a vastly better two-way player. 40 years later, people get enamored by Bossy's goal-scoring numbers, but the people who watched Bossy play continually said Trottier was better. (And Potvin was better than either of them).

Comparing their careers in the regular season - I don't think it's close. Jagr is way ahead. Bossy was one of the greatest playoff performers in NHL history (Jagr is underrated as a playoff performer, but obviously Bossy was better). This makes the comparison a bit closer, but Jagr is still well ahead.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

No

 

[Kennedys]

He's not generational. You'll have to prove he's a talent we see only once in a generation.

 

[Makar Oni pomodoro]

Not sure about his "generational" status, but If we would made a list of play-off plays/goals/assists/beauties from 2015-2022 Kucherov would be not only in the same tier like McD, Crosby and Ovi, but also beat all 3 of them.

Maybe borderline or not generational, but imo he is the less hyped superstar in the NHL.

 

[Video Nasty]

He’s generationally under-appreciated at the very least.

 

[Kennedys]

He’s generationally under-appreciated at the very least.

He's clearly not generational but i don't think he's under-appreciated. Like your Halloween 3 avatar btw

 

[Video Nasty]

He's clearly not generational but i don't think he's under-appreciated. Like your Halloween 3 avatar btw

“I saw something that night... I don't know, your father came into the hospital. He- I thought he was crazy, out of his mind. He's hanging onto a Halloween mask, he wouldn't let it go... And what he said was, "They're gonna kill us all". And in a little while he was dead. And I don't know what the hell is going on!”

 

[Voight]

Kuch is underrated in some aspects and has already had a HOF career. However, people on here need to chill with calling every top player generational.

 

[JJ68]

My own view: I think there's been maybe 8-10 generational players in the league's history.
Orr, Gretzky, Bossy, Hasek, Lemieux, Howe, Crosby, McDavid are at the top of my list. After some debate maybe I'd add one or two.

If you suggest Kucherov belongs in that list I'd argue you'd have to broaden the criteria so that players like Jagr, Yzerman, Messier, Lindros, Coffey, Brett Hull, Brodeur, Robinson, Denis Potvin (among others) get consideration.

I'd rather keep it to the elite of the elite. No doubt Kucherov is great - I picked him in two consecutive playoff pools and he almost single-handedly won me both, so I have some love for the guy - but not in the air of Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux.

the fact Jagr needs to be added to your top tier list is automatically asinine.

 

[Master P]

He's not generational. You'll have to prove he's a talent we see only once in a generation.

Once in a generation? But Crosby and Ovechkin are apart of the same generation. By that definition neither of them are generational.

 

[kevsh]

Comparing their careers in the regular season - I don't think it's close.

Appreciate the well thought out response. My "shotgun" comment was in response to Bossy being a 3rd wheel, meant more in jest as I certainly don't believe Jagr was just being carried by Lemieux, but neither was Bossy by Trottier (and I do agree Trottier was a phenomenal player).

Too bad this kind of got off to a Jagr vs. Bossy comparison (I didn't start it!) as it really comes down to what any one of us consider "generational". Personally, I don't have any problem if someone argues Jagr is and Bossy falls short. If you ask me to name the top 10 players of all-time, Bossy doesn't make the list. Again I just personally think he's in the conversation as a generational talent based primarily on his goal scoring prowess - the numbers don't lie and his are impressive on a level only surpassed by Gretzky.

 

[NyQuil]

No, he's in that Matthews, Draisaitl, MacKinnon tier just below generational (McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin).

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

The funny thing is he's the perfect player for everyone to use the "quietly" meme. His numbers and impact say yes, he's generational. His presence on the ice is deceptively quiet most of the time. I don't even think I noticed him in the series against the Leafs last playoffs.

 

[Magic 8 Ball]

I identify as a generational hockey player. My pronouns are Gretzky-esque/Orr-ish

 

[nothingbeatshockey]

Wow - if only I knew whether "Is There a Case for Kucherov > Ovechkin?", then I could answer the OP's question.

 

[The Burdened]

A part of being generational is you have to be known as generational from the start and then live up to that standard.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Appreciate the well thought out response. My "shotgun" comment was in response to Bossy being a 3rd wheel, meant more in jest as I certainly don't believe Jagr was just being carried by Lemieux, but neither was Bossy by Trottier (and I do agree Trottier was a phenomenal player).

Too bad this kind of got off to a Jagr vs. Bossy comparison (I didn't start it!) as it really comes down to what any one of us consider "generational". Personally, I don't have any problem if someone argues Jagr is and Bossy falls short. If you ask me to name the top 10 players of all-time, Bossy doesn't make the list. Again I just personally think he's in the conversation as a generational talent based primarily on his goal scoring prowess - the numbers don't lie and his are impressive on a level only surpassed by Gretzky.

Yeah, "third wheel" is just wrong when describing Bossy. I think he was the 3rd best member of the Islanders dynasty... but he was closer to 1st than even to 4th place.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

Seems like we have 10 generational players in the league right now

Nope only 3. One in Edmonton, one in Denver and one in Toronto. That's it, that's the list, no more, no less..

 

[PhysicalGraffiti]

He's incredible, but his occasional laziness/lack of effort during games (including playoff games) is super frustrating.

To be that good and make the plays he does, then to have some sloppy turnover or not being in the right position, drives me nuts.

 

[94 Oil Drops]

So how many "Generational Talents" are there in the NHL? F***ing 30? Winning 1 scoring title does not make a player generational.

The answer is no.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Nope only 3. One in Edmonton, one in Denver and one in Toronto. That's it, that's the list, no more, no less..

What's your argument for Matthews being a whole tier ahead of Kucherov or Draisailt?

I have no problem if someone has Matthews being second best forward, but all three of Matthews Draisailt Kucherov are very close.

 

[TopG]

Matthews isn't ****ing generational man...

How not? Even his peers say he is…

 

[VivaLasVegas]

These characterizations are all very silly because players have different start and end times to their careers which might cross the lines between generations or decades or whatever, and so leaves one wondering whether to include or exclude the years within or without the generation or decade or whatever. As to "generational" in particular, there is the definitional question about what constitutes the generation, i.e., do you go by societal norms (Baby Boomers, Gen X, Gen Z, Millenials, etc.), or do you go by crops of players who come into the league about the same time, etc.

In the end, it all becomes meaningless and subjective characterizations.

Finally, it is difficult to see how any kind of "Best of the Best" player could at the very least be somebody other than a Conn Smythe award winner .... and some might even suggest a double CS award winner.

 

[T REX]

It's like 95% no's

We can probably lock it