Is mcdavid too good not to win a cup?

[JFedol]

20 years from now, people will point out the everlasting effect of the Oilers not having a true #1 goalie during the early prime years of McDrai (2019-2023). Replace Campbell or Skinner with any elite goaltender and that's arguably 2-3 cups in a row.

Imagine if they had a Roy for their Sakic and Forsberg.

Just disgraceful

 

[daver]

So if McDavid puts up a lower PPG, say 30 points in 23 games, but steps up when his team needs him, you’d say he’d have a better playoffs than he did in 2024?

I'll let you know when if it happens. We can only assess what has actually occured.

Where do we draw the line when it comes to point totals?. McDavid’s higher PPG in losses indicates how he pushes his level to new heights in order to compete when his team as a whole is playing worse.

It's easier to score when the other team is protecting the lead and you have nothing to lose.

Let's leave it at this. If you want to play a run and gun style or you need a player to try to erase a 2 goal deficit in the 3rd, McDavid's your guy. If you want to have the best chance of your team not being down 2 goals in the 3rd, you take Crosby because he is just as productive as McDavid but is more versatile offensively and the better all around player.

Crosby was more proven to be able to produce regardless of the quality of his linemates which created team depth and allowed them to play a less aggressive style offensively. If Crosby spent as much time with Malkin as McDavid and Draisaitl, I am sure his PPG would have been higher but who knows if that lowers their chances for a Cup.

The best guess is that the coaches figured it was better to separate them, and keep them separate. Can you argue with the results?

 

[Fourier]

I'll let you know when if it happens. We can only assess what has actually occured.



Let's leave it at this. If you want to play a run and gun style or you need a player to try to erase a 2 goal deficit in the 3rd, McDavid's your guy. If you want to have the best chance of your team not being down 2 goals in the 3rd, you take Crosby because he is just as productive as McDavid but is more versatile offensively and the better all around player.

The Oilers under Knoblach are anything but a run and gun style team. And yet they came within a goal of winning last year and are the first team in the conference finals this year with McDavid.

 

[daver]

20 years from now, people will point out the everlasting effect of the Oilers not having a true #1 goalie during the early prime years of McDrai (2019-2023). Replace Campbell or Skinner with any elite goaltender and that's arguably 2-3 cups in a row.

Imagine if they had a Roy for their Sakic and Forsberg.

Just disgraceful

Cap issues. Teams cannot load up like they used to.

 

[daver]

The Oilers under Knoblach are anything but a run and gun style team. And yet they came within a goal of winning last year and are the first team in the conference finals this year with McDavid.

When McDavid and Draisaitl are teamed up, there is a lot of pressure for them to produce. They were teamed up to start this year's playoffs and were last year through two rounds. Full marks to McDavid for producing in the WCF; I have said that is his best playoff series of his career. Half marks for not producing in the SCF until it was too late and for not producing in Game 7.

 

[Fourier]

When McDavid and Draisaitl are teamed up, there is a lot of pressure for them to produce. They were teamed up to start this year's playoffs and were last year through two rounds. Full marks to McDavid for producing in the WCF; I have said that is his best playoff series of his career. Half marks for not producing in the SCF until it was too late and for not producing in Game 7.

What does any of this have to do with a run and gun style. For someone who spends an inordinate amount fo time criticizing McDavid/Draisaitl it seems evident that you really have very little knowledge of what they actually do for the team.

 

[daver]

What does any of this have to do with a run and gun style. For someone who spends an inordinate amount fo time criticizing McDavid/Draisaitl it seems evident that you really have very little knowledge of what they actually do for the team.

The discussion was about McDavid putting up big point totals in series, most notably in 2022 when, without a doubt, the Oilers were trying to run and gun their way to a Cup. Their team GA was by far the worst for a conference finalist in the past 30 years.

Pointing out that Crosby was able to win a Cup on a team that had a worse supporting cast than McDavid's team in any of the last four seasons isn't a critique. Talk of superior teammates, d-men, goaltending etc. has been debunked many times over.

He is a proven winner many times over. McDavid has done enough to not lose any points legacy-wise but he doesn't gain any like Crosby.

 

[RevengeOfTheDrai]

If you want to play a run and gun style or you need a player to try to erase a 2 goal deficit in the 3rd, McDavid's your guy. If you want to have the best chance of your team not being down 2 goals in the 3rd, you take Crosby because he is just as productive as McDavid but is more versatile

You could well be right, but this analysis falls short in the SCF last year. 97 was 2 goals against all series, so the Oilers being down 2 or three in the third was on the Goaltending and losing the depth battle. McDavid couldn’t have played better defensively, so we can put away the ‘he could’ve been more versatile defensively’ for this series atleast. We don’t know how the first few games go with a healthy Draisaitl, just like Malkin was fully healthy in 2009. Maybe he carries his own line, who knows.

Crosby was more proven to be able to produce regardless of the quality of his linemates

It depends what’s the definition of production. His 0.8 in 2016 was a good number overall, but not compared to his standard. Yes he shut down loaded lines and full credit to that, but strictly speaking for on-ice prefomance, 0.8 for 1C is subpar production. He provided far greater intrinsic value by playing with plugs, so I’m not criticizing it. Here’s the problem for me, I don’t know how much of HBK’s success is on Crosby making sacrifices, and how much is on each member of that line overplaying their ability and usual stat line massively. It’s a combination of both. Everyone would use that formula if it garanteed a Kessel type player to play that great without a star center on his side, but there is no guarantee.

It’s not a matter of McDavid can’t produce with plugs for me, it’s taking that risk betting on McDavid’s usual wingers to produce like HBK did on the third line.

Their team GA was by far the worst for a conference finalist in the past 30 years.

A big reason for this was Oil starting a 40 year old Mike Smith, who had let in some absolute head scratchers, especially in that Calgary series. If you look at the goals conceded, it’s fair to say the majority of the goals conceded were a result of bad goaltending and/or individual mistakes, atleast in the Calgary series. Some were a result of a run and gun playstyle, just not the majority.

Just look at some of the goals conceded here. The 135 foot slapper is just a cherry on top.

Link all Calgary goals

 

[Fourier]

The discussion was about McDavid putting up big point totals in series, most notably in 2022 when, without a doubt, the Oilers were trying to run and gun their way to a Cup. Their team GA was by far the worst for a conference finalist in the past 30 years.

Pointing out that Crosby was able to win a Cup on a team that had a worse supporting cast than McDavid's team in any of the last four seasons isn't a critique. Talk of superior teammates, d-men, goaltending etc. has been debunked many times over.

He is a proven winner many times over. McDavid has done enough to not lose any points legacy-wise but he doesn't gain any like Crosby.

I am not sure how many times you need to be told. Individuals do not win cups, teams do. And you seem to be the only one who feels that the bolded is true. That 2022 team had one guy on it who was legitimately capable of playing in the top 2 on defense and he was completely crippled by injury. Draisaitl was also playing with a severe high ankle strain that prevented him from playing center. There goalie was playing with injuries that ended his career. No Pittsburgh cup winner had less depth than that 2022 team and its not even close.

 

[McFlash97]

I'll let you know when if it happens. We can only assess what has actually occured.



It's easier to score when the other team is protecting the lead and you have nothing to lose.

Let's leave it at this. If you want to play a run and gun style or you need a player to try to erase a 2 goal deficit in the 3rd, McDavid's your guy. If you want to have the best chance of your team not being down 2 goals in the 3rd, you take Crosby because he is just as productive as McDavid but is more versatile offensively and the better all around player.

Crosby was more proven to be able to produce regardless of the quality of his linemates which created team depth and allowed them to play a less aggressive style offensively. If Crosby spent as much time with Malkin as McDavid and Draisaitl, I am sure his PPG would have been higher but who knows if that lowers their chances for a Cup.

The best guess is that the coaches figured it was better to separate them, and keep them separate. Can you argue with the results?

Stop embarrassing yourself man.

This is not an analysis. Its an opinion, however preposterous it may seem.