Is mcdavid too good not to win a cup?

[TheLegend27]

Beating LA and Calgary wasn’t exactly top tier opponents. You should have beat them…

That Avs team that swept them was the best team since the cap era in terms of sheer dominance. I have them over Red Wings 08. They were that good. The Oilers have lost to cup winners the past three years, or in other words, the best team in the NHL.

 

[Macheteops]

Beating LA and Calgary wasn’t exactly top tier opponents. You should have beat them…

Everyone had Calgary as this big bad team that year until they got pumped by Edmonton

Same thing last year with Dallas. Oilers had no chance. Afterwards everyone was commenting on their easy path to the finals

 

[dubey]

This is the end of McDavid in Edmonton I'm afraid

 

[daver]

My bad. Making the final four out of 30+ teams and losing to the eventually champs was a below average run

I doubt they beat the Blues in 2022 so let's not make them out to be a team that could have won the Cup if not for having to play the eventual Cup champions.

They weren't particularly close in 2022. I would say their 2017 team was more worthy of praise than the 2022 version.

This year is not looking promising as any hope that they could roll two scoring lines as been thrown out the window from the get go. McDrai are spending more than 50% of their ES time together so far. It's recipe for high point totals but disappounting team results.

 

[daver]

I know what you’re hinting at and I’ll be the first to say that McDavid’s playoff PPG rises from his already insanely high career PPG(third all time). Crosby’s numbers decline quite significantly in the playoffs. We can all see who the Hellebuyck is in this case.

The Oilers live and die by a high octane offense that has brought mediorce playoff success. Crosby did what was needed to win and brought his team to the top of the league in playoff success during his prime. He easily met the high historical bar for a generational talent during an era where there is a lot more parity in the league.

How is possible that a team with the #2 and #4 players in playoff PPG all-time plus the #2 d-man all-time in playoff PPG has only had one significant Cup run in nine years?

There is no historical precendent for this. Hull/Mikita get critiqued for only winning one Cup but Mikita notably did not produce as well as Hull and nowhere near an all-time great level.

Maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't get caught up in individual point totals and playoff PGGs as the be all, end all of playoff performances.

 

[Elvs]

I guess it's true, the Oilers are such a shit team outside of him and Drai it literally is all on him and Drai and if they don't have monster games, they're not going to win.

This is true for literally every team to ever win the cup. Or can you say a team that would've still won if you removed their two best players?

The Oilers are deep enough, on paper. The problem is they can't play team defence. Last year they did it really well in the playoffs and they almost won. If they can find that level of defensive play again, helping their goalies to at least be average, they'll have every chance to win.

 

[daver]

This is true for literally every team to ever win the cup. Or can you say a team that would've still won if you removed their two best players?

The Oilers are deep enough, on paper. The problem is they can't play team defence. Last year they did it really well in the playoffs and they almost won. If they can find that level of defensive play again, helping their goalies to at least be average, they'll have every chance to win.

Last year they were forced to play better team defense when Draisaitl was injured and they split up McDrai at ES.

 

[NVious]

This is true for literally every team to ever win the cup. Or can you say a team that would've still won if you removed their two best players?

The Oilers are deep enough, on paper. The problem is they can't play team defence. Last year they did it really well in the playoffs and they almost won. If they can find that level of defensive play again, helping their goalies to at least be average, they'll have every chance to win.

Not at all, most teams have at least a 1D or 1G for their superstars.

It's year 10 and the Oilers are relying on a career AHLer (Pickard) and a 3rd round dud who has done nothing in his NHL career as their starting goalies.

It would be different if they had a 1D or 1G at some point, but they don't and that's why they've squandered a decade of 2 guys who have near/above Lemieux levels production.

 

[nbwingsfan]

This is true for literally every team to ever win the cup. Or can you say a team that would've still won if you removed their two best players?

The Oilers are deep enough, on paper. The problem is they can't play team defence. Last year they did it really well in the playoffs and they almost won. If they can find that level of defensive play again, helping their goalies to at least be average, they'll have every chance to win.

No one’s saying remove them entirely from the roster. They’re saying there is no forward that exists in the NHL who you could replace McDavid with and they have a better chance to win the Cup with. Zero.

 

[Oneiro]

He's let down by team construction.

He should leave for a place with halfway competent management (signing, drafting) and then it will be inevitable.

McDavid on Minnesota or Carolina completes those teams, given how they draft and sign, and he wins 2-3 minimum.

 

[Cup Or Bust]

It's McDavid's fault the Oilers haven't swept LA in this series. It must be that his game doesn't translate to the playoffs well.

 

[Video Nasty]

How is possible that a team with the #2 and #4 players in playoff PPG all-time plus the #2 d-man all-time in playoff PPG has only had one significant Cup run in nine years?

I know you’re not actually mystified and it’s all in good fun to embrace the shtick, but let’s focus on this.

This is only the beginning of the fourth playoff run for those three players. You chose the parameters of this post when you brought in Bouchard’s PPG, so I expect no push back about anything before the 2022 postseason.

To recap, they went to Game 7 of the Finals and lost by a goal. They lost in the Conference Finals to the eventual champions. They lost in the second round to the eventual champions. They are currently halfway through the first round of the fourth postseason with those three players together. We’ll have to wait until reality unfolds, but so far, they have been significant contenders with that core.

The overall problems of the Oilers organization are well-documented and I’m not going to rehash it for someone who doesn’t understand the difference between being tucked in by Mario Lemieux each night and being locked in a dungeon and promised to go free one day if they fixed twenty years of problems overnight.

 

[TheLegend27]

The Oilers live and die by a high octane offense that has brought mediorce playoff success. Crosby did what was needed to win and brought his team to the top of the league in playoff success during his prime. He easily met the high historical bar for a generational talent during an era where there is a lot more parity in the league.

The Oilers haven’t played off the Rush this series, on the contrary the Kings played a rush game while the Oilers dump and chased more frequently. This “high-octane” offense is pretty similar to how the Pens played during those cup wins. Crosby did what he needed to win, but his bar was to play passable defense and produce star like numbers on offense… he didn’t need to climb Mount Everest.

How is possible that a team with the #2 and #4 players in playoff PPG all-time plus the #2 d-man all-time in playoff PPG has only had one significant Cup run in nine years?

They lost to a historically great Avs team, SC champs Vegas and Florida. They were not the favorites before each series at all. McDrai producing all the points shows a lack of depth scoring if anything.

Maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't get caught up in individual point totals and playoff PGGs as the be all, end all of playoff performances.

I agree - but let’s look at the last game, McDavid wasn’t at fault for any Kings goals, and they still needed four goals to eke out a win. How come the Oilers lines continue to conceded when McDavid is on the bench?. You mentioned how Crosby sacrificed scoring for the HBK line in 2016, but the HBK line was defensively solid despite fielding a defensive liability Kessel. I welcome any input from you on what McDavid and Drai could do better or differently.

 

[edog37]

Fact is Sid got bailed out by his team on multiple occasions and shamelessly got gifted two Conn Smythe's he didn't deserve.

Doesn't mean he wasn't among the better players on his team, but wasn't the best in any of the runs. Among top three-four yes.

When it comes to captaincy I don't think either of us will know. Let's not pretend Crosby was anything of a great captain in his first 10 years or so in the league, maybe more. He needed to mature into it. McDavid the same.

Neither is probably not remotely close to being top captains of all time.

That’s utterly laughable. Crosby has captained his teams to 3 Stanley Cups, 2 Olympic Golds, & a Four Nations title. Youngest captain to win a Cup. McOverrated is just that…overrated.

 

[edog37]

This is exactly why Crosby gets the backlash that he does here. All these “intangibles” such as better leadership, “sacrificing offense”, elite defense that Pens fans present as facts without any evidence what so ever. Crosby has had a wonderful career, there is no need to prop him up to a level he doesn’t belong in.

The track record is there to see. He’s Top 10 all time in points if you want those meaningless regular season stats. He also broke Gretzky’s record of 19 straight seasons of a point per game.

But here’s the ultimate proof. Crosby has led teams to 3 Cups, 2 Olympic Golds, & a Four Nations. Throw in a World Cup for good measure. He gets results when it counts most. McDavid doesn’t.

The premise of this thread is absurd. “Too good to not win a Cup”. That’s not how it’s done. But a common refrain from McOverrated fans who can’t get over the fact he hasn’t led a team to a Cup.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

The track record is there to see. He’s Top 10 all time in points if you want those meaningless regular season stats. He also broke Gretzky’s record of 19 straight seasons of a point per game.

But here’s the ultimate proof. Crosby has led teams to 3 Cups, 2 Olympic Golds, & a Four Nations. Throw in a World Cup for good measure. He gets results when it counts most. McDavid doesn’t.

The premise of this thread is absurd. “Too good to not win a Cup”. That’s not how it’s done. But a common refrain from McOverrated fans who can’t get over the fact he hasn’t led a team to a Cup.

Crosby didn't "lead" shit in the Olympics or Four Nations. He was pedestrian in 2010, Canada's two leading scorers in 2014 were defensemen, and he was downright painful to watch in both games against America in Four Nations.

 

[TheLegend27]

But here’s the ultimate proof. Crosby has led teams to 3 Cups, 2 Olympic Golds, & a Four Nations. Throw in a World Cup for good measure. He gets results when it counts most. McDavid doesn’t.

Crosby didn’t lead his teams to anything - leading implies you’re the largest contributor, and he definitely wasn’t the largest contributor for the two Gold Medals, and wasn’t the largest contributor for two of the Stanley cups he won.

He gets results when it counts most. McDavid doesn’t.

“His team gets results when it counts most. McDavid’s team doesn’t”. Fixed it for you. Throw Prime Crosby into any of the Oiler teams of the past 10 years, and they don’t get any closer to the cup; shows you how much of a team game hockey is. I’ve never seen a player get so much credit relative to how they performed… you’d think Crosby was averaging Gretzky numbers based on how he’s talked about in those cup runs.

 

[syz]

Crosby didn't "lead" shit in the Olympics or Four Nations. He was pedestrian in 2010, Canada's two leading scorers in 2014 were defensemen, and he was downright painful to watch in both games against America in Four Nations.

Yea Crosby was getting dragged all tournament in 2010 until the "golden goal," something that McDavid clearly would never be able to dwait I'm being notified of something.

 

[Davenport]

After ten seasons in the NHL, is it possible that Connor McDavid can be better than he has been and is now? If the answer is no - and he has not hoisted the Stanley Cup yet - it is quite possible that he will not do so, great as he is and has been.

 

[edog37]

Crosby didn’t lead his teams to anything - leading implies you’re the largest contributor, and he definitely wasn’t the largest contributor for the two Gold Medals, and wasn’t the largest contributor for two of the Stanley cups he won.

“His team gets results it counts most. McDavid’s team doesn’t”. Fixed it for you. Throw Prime Crosby into any of the Oiler teams of the past 10 years and they don’t get any closer to the cup; just shows you how much of a team game hockey is. I’ve never seen a player get so much credit relative to how they preformed… you’d think Crosby was averaging Gretzky numbers based on how he’s talked about in those cup runs.

Crosby was the captain of disparate teams. So he’s clearly plug & play. He drew the toughest assignments & he got things done.

His back to back Conn Smythes were well deserved unlike McOverrated’s last year. That was a joke.

 

[edog37]

Crosby didn't "lead" shit in the Olympics or Four Nations. He was pedestrian in 2010, Canada's two leading scorers in 2014 were defensemen, and he was downright painful to watch in both games against America in Four Nations.

Another hurt Wings fan. How quaint. Still mad about ‘09 huh…

 

[Cup Or Bust]

Imagine the 2nd greatest playoff scorer of all time in PPG and a playoff MVP is being blamed for this team not winning the Cup? He does his job as good as anyone else in NHL history whereas others on his team, other forwards, defenseman, and goalies absolutely do not perform at the level needed to win a Cup and no player has ever won the Cup with the amount of underperformance in other areas of their team that McDavid has had, and yet there are people want to point the finger at him.

 

[TheNewEra]

Here are Edmonton's goalies since McDavid first made the playoffs

everyone in edmonton's management group needs to be fired and banned from the game. You dont even need an elite goalie (would be nice), a semi competent goalie would be a huge upgrade which is hilarious. Like why is Mike Smith the best goalie he has ever played with. How can that seriously be a thing.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

That Avs team that swept them was the best team since the cap era in terms of sheer dominance. I have them over Red Wings 08. They were that good. The Oilers have lost to cup winners the past three years, or in other words, the best team in the NHL.

I used to console myself with that every year the prime Thornton, Marleau Sharks teams got bounced. "They lost to the eventual Cup champ."

Let's not kid ourselves.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Another hurt Wings fan. How quaint. Still mad about ‘09 huh…

Holy shit just admit you're wrong lmao