Is mcdavid too good not to win a cup?

[Colorado Avalanche]

He is young. Odds are on his side to win it.

 

[bobholly39]

In a vacuum - yes. The idea that a player of his caliber - and even moreso, a player of his caliber putting forth the type of playoff performances he has so far - could not win a cup seems crazy.

But logically speaking - of course it's possible he won't win now.

That being said - I predict Oilers win the cup this year.

 

[daver]

No he was not.
McDavid had 31 points before the SCF even started in 2024 and a +7 (and 42 points and a +12 after the finals were finished) and 33 points in 2022 and a +15.

Crosby had 31 points total and a +9 after SCF was finished in 2009.

What part of "through 3 rounds" did you not get?

Crosby had 28 points and 14 goals thru 17 games in 2009 and was a plus 12. After Malkin, the next best Pen was Guerin with 14 points.

McDavid had 31 points and 5 goals thru 18 games and was a plus 7. After Draisaitl, the next best Oilers were Bouchard with 27, RNH with 20 and Hyman with 18 points.

The Oilers were full out offense in 2022 with McDavid playing with Draisaitl most of the time at ES and they won 8 games while being the worst defensive team for a Conference finalist in 30 years. Like Game 1 of this year's playoffs, McDrai scored a bunch after it was too late. I am sure Crosby would have wracked up more points playing in a run and gun style but likely to the detriment of their team success.

Scoring was also lower in 2008 and 2009 then the current timeframe.

 

[SirKillalot]

What part of "through 3 rounds" did you not get?

Crosby had 28 points

I wasn't wrong. McDavid contributed more offensively in 3 rounds than Crosby did in 3 rounds and in 4 rounds.

Issue isn't McDavid, he does his bit and more. Issue is goaltending, defence and depth scoring/depth avoid getting scored on.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Doesn't matter how good he is.

If the rest of the team around him - most importantly the fella standing in net - is garbage, he'll never win a Cup.

 

[daver]

I wasn't wrong. McDavid contributed more offensively in 3 rounds than Crosby did in 3 rounds.

He had a marginally better PPG in 2024 than Crosby did in 2009, in a higher scoring era, with 5 goals vs. Crosby's 14, 6 of which were the 1st goals of the game, an NHL playoff record, and with clearly superior offensive team support with Draisaitl, Bouchard, RNH and Hyman.

He had 13 point shares with Draisaitl through his first 21 points. Crosby had 11 point shares with Malkin of his 28 points.

 

[SirKillalot]

He had a marginally better PPG in 2024 than Crosby did in 2009

So he contributed more offensively in 2022 and 2024 after both 3 and/or 4 rounds than Crosby.

Funny that you start using goals as a reason for why Crosby supposed to be better when all the years Capitals fans used that about Ovechkin, then it was assists and secondary assists and undocumented eyes of how the games were played that counted.

 

[daver]

So he contributed more offensively in 2022 and 2024 after both 3 and/or 4 rounds than Crosby.

You already said this. No comment on anything else?

You mentioned that Datsyuk was argubly the best player in the league in 2009. Looking at his point total, he is not close to being the best.

 

[SirKillalot]

You mentioned that Datsyuk was argubly the best player in the league in 2009. Looking at his point total, he is not close to being the best.

He had three players ahead of him in points in both 2008 and 2009 in the regular season.
Winning the cup in 2008.
In a time where it wasn't clear cut who was the best player.

It was the players themselves who voted Datsyuk.

 

[daver]

He had three players ahead of him in points in both 2008 and 2009 in the regular season.
Winning the cup in 2008.
In a time where it wasn't clear cut who was the best player.

It was the players themselves who voted Datsyuk.

Yet you think it is clear cut that a marginally better PPG by McDavid in 2024 means he was better than Crosby??

 

[SirKillalot]

Yet you think it is clear cut that a marginally better PPG by McDavid in 2024 means he was better than Crosby??

He got 11 points more than Crosby ever got in the playoffs. Or 26.2% better if you will.
So yes. Individually he was better by some decent margin.

 

[daver]

He got 11 points more than Crosby ever got in the playoffs. Or 26.2% better if you will.
So yes. Individually he was better by some decent margin.

We were talking thru 3 rounds.

 

[nbwingsfan]

The Oilers have the two highest scoring playoff forwards, by a decent amount, and yet the Oilers have a losing playoff record since 16/17. Tell me we shouldn't put some context on their numbers rather than comparing them, or McDavid at least, to ONLY Wayne and Mario.

Crosby lead in the league in scoring in the 2008 playoffs and got his Pens within 2 wins of the Cup. Coming into that SCF, the Pens were playing very solid team defense, along with MAF playing very goog, something they weren't necessarily known for in the regular season. They were at a 1.86 GAA before the SCF, the same GAA the Wings up ended with; the clear best Cup winner since the lockout.

The 2022 Oilers were at a 3.69 GAA; easily the worst GAA by a team that made it to CF in the past 30 years.
Do you think that a comparison of their PPGs, 1.35 to 2.06, is not in need of some context?

Did the Pens have Stuart Skinner as their starter? Did they have Evan Bouchard, Darnell Nurse and Cody Ceci as 3/4 of their top 4?

 

[57special]

The real question is; Is the Edmonton Management Too Bad to Ever Win a Cup?

 

[daver]

Did the Pens have Stuart Skinner as their starter? Did they have Evan Bouchard, Darnell Nurse and Cody Ceci as 3/4 of their top 4?

MAF was a .906 sv% and a 2.61 GAA in 2009. Skinner was a .901 sv% and 2.45 GAA in 2024.

The Pens won in 2017 without LeTang.

Why not admit that Crosby's game is simply more versatile than McDavid's?

 

[Draiskull]

The real question is; Is the Edmonton Management Too Bad to Ever Win a Cup?

The management was grilled at deadline and they confirmed that there are no issues with the goaltending on this team and the right side of Bouchard, Emberson, Stecher, Klingberg and Brown is sufficient on D.

McDavid cannot overcome stupid management decisions but also he was a big reason for some of the goals against last game. Despite a 4 pt night he wasnt great in game 1.

 

[Fatass]

I wasn't wrong. McDavid contributed more offensively in 3 rounds than Crosby did in 3 rounds and in 4 rounds.

Issue isn't McDavid, he does his bit and more. Issue is goaltending, defence and depth scoring/depth avoid getting scored on.

And we saw on video how frustrated McDavid was with his angry outburst in the room after going down 0-3 to the Panthers. He’s great but winning a Cup as an Oiler might not be in his future.

 

[Midnight Judges]

There is no such thing as “too good not to win a cup.”

 

[57special]

The management was grilled at deadline and they confirmed that there are no issues with the goaltending on this team and the right side of Bouchard, Emberson, Stecher, Klingberg and Brown is sufficient on D.

McDavid cannot overcome stupid management decisions but also he was a big reason for some of the goals against last game. Despite a 4 pt night he wasnt great in game 1.

You know how insane that sounds, right? I mean, Gretzky wasn't known for his two way play, either.

 

[Elvs]

Did the Pens have Stuart Skinner as their starter? Did they have Evan Bouchard, Darnell Nurse and Cody Ceci as 3/4 of their top 4?

You would rather have Ron Hainsey, Olli Maatta and Justin Schultz?

 

[NVious]

The real question is; Is the Edmonton Management Too Bad to Ever Win a Cup?

They definitely are.

It's year 10 and their #1 goalie is Skinner and #1 D is/are Nurse/Bouchard.

You can excuse a weakness in one of those two positions, but not in both.

The fact that someone like Gibson (probably Sarros too) was out there and they didn't make a move for him is insane. Skinner was a 900 goalie in last year's playoffs and that was good enough? Insanity considering it could be argued he literally cost them the finals.

Even from a self preservation standpoint, management needed to realize they have this year and next and that could be it, they did nothing.

 

[Zenos]

Lots of players in the HoF without cups.

Sure, but nobody of this calibre. We’re talking about a player who is likely the consensus best of his generation.

The kind of player you’re referring to (Dionne, Iginla, Lindros, Sedins, Thornton) are clearly on a lower level.

I know it’s not exactly fair, but McDavid will be judged harshly in the history books if he can’t pull off at least one cup victory.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Did the Pens have Stuart Skinner as their starter? Did they have Evan Bouchard, Darnell Nurse and Cody Ceci as 3/4 of their top 4?

The Penguins had Rob Scuderin and Hal Gill as their second pairing.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

MAF was a .906 sv% and a 2.61 GAA in 2009. Skinner was a .901 sv% and 2.45 GAA in 2024.

The Pens won in 2017 without LeTang.

Why not admit that Crosby's game is simply more versatile than McDavid's?

For those unaware, relative to league average Skinner was better last year than MAF in 08

 

[Cup Or Bust]

Criticizing McDavid's lack of Cups might make sense if he didn't perform well in the playoffs, but McDavid has had some of the greatest playoff performances in NHL history and has won playoff MVP. His playoff points per game level matches Mario Lemieux. If a player can't win a Cup with that level of play, it's definitely not the player that is the problem.