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Is Matthews the worst playoff performer ever?

@Tie Domi Esquire @NVious

Honestly -- as an outsider, if Matthews scored 500g with the franchise (imo likely, given he's signed thru 2028 and has a full no move until then), I'm not sure there's much of an argument he isn't the best Leaf ever. Sure he's so far played worse in the playoffs but he's not the first or only superstar like that. And comparing him to Doug Gilmour or Wendel Clark? Please. (Salming was before my time)

If you'd rather call him, "most talented" instead of "best" than that's fine but imo we're splitting hairs.

Anyway he still has time to turn it around, even if Leafs no-show again tonight he has another three years, most likely without Marner but likely with someone like a ~35yo Erik Karlsson for a couple years. Regardless, if you're a Leaf fan you can't really get rid of him so imo might as well hope he breaks through, which is definitely possible. Anyway, hopefully he has a good gm tonight
 
sampollock said:
over the past 9 years? hurt?
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The team hasnt been competive for long.

Would say they shit the bed when dumbass took over with a clean sheet with all bad decisions and bad contracts. The team was built wrong with a bad culture.

AM is a grest player, isnt a driving force though, that you need in a captain and highest paid.

M.M though, isnt build for playoffs, he cant make a difference in playoffs even if his life depends on it. He need time/space, thats something you doesnt get in the playoffs.
 
NVious said:
Barkov was in round 2 by his 4th year in the playoffs, it took Matthews 7 years to accomplish that. Barkov went to the cup finals in his 5th playoff year, Matthews hasn't been past the 2nd round. Barkov won a cup in his 6th playoff year, Matthews was a year away from winning a playoff round in his 6th playoff year.
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Gosh, its almost like the design of the team may have something to do with it
...for Matthews entire career with the Leafs, the Goaltending and Defense has been sub-par, even now, they are better, but do not have a true #1 D
...the Panthers had Bobby in net, had a defense headlined by a #1 overall pick in Ekblad (and Weegar, Yandle, Forsling, Montour etc) and a number of quality forwards on par with the Leafs. maybe, just maybe that helps a player go further in the playoffs??

Eichel never made the playoffs on Buffalo, but moves to a better built team, and wow, he did better.

One forward (who isnt McDavid) cant will a team into the playoff, much less Deep into the playoffs.

MacKinnon didnt make round 2 until his 5th season (missed the playoffs in 3 of those 5 too) and then only won the 1st round 3 times before they finally won the cup with what amounted to an all star team, and in the 3 seasons since where he has put up the best stats of his entire career, only won 1 playoff round while still having an elite core of forwards and defense.
 
PainForShane said:
@Tie Domi Esquire @NVious

Honestly -- as an outsider, if Matthews scored 500g with the franchise (imo likely, given he's signed thru 2028 and has a full no move until then), I'm not sure there's much of an argument he isn't the best Leaf ever. Sure he's so far played worse in the playoffs but he's not the first or only superstar like that. And comparing him to Doug Gilmour or Wendel Clark? Please. (Salming was before my time)

If you'd rather call him, "most talented" instead of "best" than that's fine but imo we're splitting hairs.

Anyway he still has time to turn it around, even if Leafs no-show again tonight he has another three years, most likely without Marner but likely with someone like a ~35yo Erik Karlsson for a couple years. Regardless, if you're a Leaf fan you can't really get rid of him so imo might as well hope he breaks through, which is definitely possible. Anyway, hopefully he has a good gm tonight
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He's the most talented, he's not the best because he's greedy, soft and never performed in the playoffs. The distinction is that no franchise would ever want someone with as many negative character traits as Matthews to ever be the best.

The fact that you think he's ahead of Gilmour or Clark is insane, in what world is some soft skill guy ahead of two warriors who went further than he ever did with less talent? Because he can score some more goals vs bottom feeders when it doesn't matter? Lol

Again, he BARELY has a higher gpg in the playoffs than Gilmour, who hit 40 goals ONCE in his career.
He has fewer goals than Clark/Sundin and a lower gpg in the playoffs

Matthews would only be the best for the newest/most casual Leaf fan ever.
 
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Absurdity said:
He's this generation's Joe Thornton.
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Joe had much better and deeper teams.
this was the first season the Leafs had a half decent defense (its still middle of the pack at best) and better goaltending, then Stolarz gets a headhot and the tides turned.
 
mydnyte said:
Gosh, its almost like the design of the team may have something to do with it
...for Matthews entire career with the Leafs, the Goaltending and Defense has been sub-par, even now, they are better, but do not have a true #1 D
...the Panthers had Bobby in net, had a defense headlined by a #1 overall pick in Ekblad (and Weegar, Yandle, Forsling, Montour etc) and a number of quality forwards on par with the Leafs. maybe, just maybe that helps a player go further in the playoffs??

Eichel never made the playoffs on Buffalo, but moves to a better built team, and wow, he did better.

One forward (who isnt McDavid) cant will a team into the playoff, much less Deep into the playoffs.

MacKinnon didnt make round 2 until his 5th season (missed the playoffs in 3 of those 5 too) and then only won the 1st round 3 times before they finally won the cup with what amounted to an all star team, and in the 3 seasons since where he has put up the best stats of his entire career, only won 1 playoff round while still having an elite core of forwards and defense.
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And who's fault is it we spend so much money on forwards? If Matthews needs so much help why does he demand to be the highest paid in the league?

Every series we have lost has been because the Fraud Four has not gotten it done
Every series was very tight, even when they got pumped by Florida the first time they lost 3 games by 1 goal, how many goals did Matthews have? 0 in 5games

It's year 9 of Matthews and he is having his worst playoffs with the best overall team around him.
 
NVious said:
And who's fault is it we spend so much money on forwards? If Matthews needs so much help why does he demand to be the highest paid in the league?

Every series we have lost has been because the Fraud Four has not gotten it done
Every series was very tight, even when they got pumped by Florida the first time they lost 3 games by 1 goal, how many goals did Matthews have? 0 in 5games

It's year 9 of Matthews and he is having his worst playoffs with the best overall team around him.
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Players will always get what they can ...the big Miss was passing on Pietrangelo when he was available, that would have made a HUGE difference in the team dynamic, and made Rielly expendable rather than extended.
Dubas screwed this team royally with poor decision after poor decision, in Net and on D ...the forward core was the only thing that kept the team afloat and Dubas employed
 
mydnyte said:
Players will always get what they can ...the big Miss was passing on Pietrangelo when he was available, that would have made a HUGE difference in the team dynamic, and made Rielly expendable rather than extended.
Dubas screwed this team royally with poor decision after poor decision, in Net and on D ...the forward core was the only thing that kept the team afloat and Dubas employed
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Some players take less, if they value winning that is. OR they get big contracts AFTER they've won, Matthews clearly values money>>>everything.

You're just ignoring that Matthews goes from 6th all time in season goals per game to 51st all time before this playoff season to 89th as of today.

If you think you can win with a guy dropping 40-80 spots season to playoffs losing nearly 50% of his performance, name that player.
 
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NVious said:
Some players take less, if they value winning that is. OR they get big contracts AFTER they've won, Matthews clearly values money>>>everything.

You're just ignoring that Matthews goes from 6th all time in season goals per game to 51st all time before this playoff season to 89th as of today.

If you think you can win with a guy dropping 40-80 spots season to playoffs losing nearly 50% of his performance, name that player.
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i think perhaps and this is just a guess, that he's been playing hurt most of the season, and now as well.

He should have been shut down early in the season, but, there was a decent risk of not making the playoffs if he was out for the time needed to recover.
 
mydnyte said:
i think perhaps and this is just a guess, that he's been playing hurt most of the season, and now as well.

He should have been shut down early in the season, but, there was a decent risk of not making the playoffs if he was out for the time needed to recover.
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That explains this year.

Before this year, he still dropped from 6th all time in goal scoring per game to 51st all time in goal scoring in the playoffs, what's the explanation for that drop?
 
NVious said:
That explains this year.

Before this year, he still dropped from 6th all time in goal scoring per game to 51st all time in goal scoring in the playoffs, what's the explanation for that drop?
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well, he plays vs Selke winner (Bergeron/Barkov) or the Cup champs (TB) in every playoffs, thats a minor factor, we have no secondary scoring almost at all ever, so, he's shadowed like nobody's business, and he doesnt have McD/McK speed to make space or just blow past defenders.

whoever beats the Leafs every season is almost a lock to make the SCF ...even MTL did that.
 
mydnyte said:
well, he plays vs Selke winner (Bergeron/Barkov) or the Cup champs (TB) in every playoffs, thats a minor factor, we have no secondary scoring almost at all ever, so, he's shadowed like nobody's business, and he doesnt have McD/McK speed to make space or just blow past defenders.

whoever beats the Leafs every season is almost a lock to make the SCF ...even MTL did that.
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Which again goes back to the fact that if he needs SO much help, why doesn't he take less money?

Or is that the gms fault? But it's also NOT Matthews fault for not scoring (even though that's what he's paid to do).

The team went 0/30 in pps in elimination games, was that also not Matthews fault and he was just so heavily shadowed on a 5 on 4 lol

McDavid literally has more goals in 7 playoff games vs the Panthers than Matthews does in 10 (3 in 7 vs 0 in 10)
 
koyvoo said:
This is ridiculous. The guy is a warrior who leaves everything he has on the ice every game.

One of the most competitive players the in league history. He’s a never say die bulldog, who would do anything to win.
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When the playoffs start he disappears. He will not hit and god knows he hates being hit. I would trade him.But I bet theres not many teams that want a choke job.
 
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A game 7 would be nice to see in both remaining series

I was browsing Tik Tok last night and I seen a video of Matthews crying when they showed how his mother worked at Starbucks and a 2nd job growing up.

Kind of gave me a soft spot for the guy, but that is the only time I have ever seen him show any emotion. Never see it in regards to hockey.
 
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red devil said:
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