Is Lily about to become better than Reilly?

[arso40]

I had edited my post to focus on something else, but I do agree. However, i think Sandins skating will hold him back from being a top pairing defenseman while Liljegren could be (hopefully Im wrong and they both end up being top pair level). However, thats another reason I prefer Lilly with Rielly.

There are very few offensive dmen that aren't good-fantastic skaters in todays game. Maybe he can buck the trend or improve his skating, because his offensive IQ is obviously something to be excited about.

You wouldn’t consider sandin a two way defencemen?i kno he’s offensively dynamic minus the skating but I always felt his defensive game wasn’t too bad and he’s the more physical of the three

 

[Martin Skoula]

I had edited my post to focus on something else, but I do agree. However, i think Sandins skating will hold him back from being a top pairing defenseman while Liljegren could be (hopefully Im wrong and they both end up being top pair level). However, thats another reason I prefer Lilly with Rielly.

There are very few offensive dmen that aren't good-fantastic skaters in todays game. Maybe he can buck the trend or improve his skating, because his offensive IQ is obviously something to be excited about.

Tobias Enstrom is Sandin's realistic upside imo but Enstrom played in a slower league before skating D became the dominant meta.

 

[geo25]

This is a Rielly bashing thread in sheep's clothing.

All these years later people are critical of Rielly's development?

Reilly never really developed defensively...esp with that pylon Dion as his mentor. He showed much promise...but, let"s not kid ourselves, on a true contender he is not a#1 or #2...imho.

 

[geo25]

I think Lil will be great but he has a long way to reach Rielly. Rielly is the backbone, takes the hard matchups, plays in all situations and produces offence. He’s been doing this for years. Lil has been on the top pairing a few games here and there last year and this year. He has shined, but has a long way to Rielly

Yes, but he can't play defense.....many menstal miscues, NO shot....get real. - he's a #3....defensively at best

 

[arso40]

Yes, but he can't play defense.....many menstal miscues, NO shot....get real. - he's a #3....defensively at best

I will say with a tanev type defence partner he’s a top pair defencemen but we’d still need an overall strong top four to make up for his lacc of defence tbh I’m sure if he committed to defence he’d be better but he’s fixated on offence maybe cause of the lacc of offence from the bacc end in years previous he does need to learn to handle odd man rushes better though I agree with you but you might be a tad harsh juss a tad lol

 

[Maplebeasts]

I wouldn't be surprised but admittedly I don't think Rielly is nearly as good as his point totals would indicate. He's arguably the worst defensive dman on the team and really doesn't make too many offensive plays that stand out. I swear at least 60% of his points are just handing one of Marner or Matthews the puck and having them do the rest.

 

[francis246]

i respectfully disagree. He was very highly touted before having mono. As you’ve pointed out before I know nothing about the medical field but i hear its a pretty serious illness

The projection has always been that he would turn out to be an elite offensive defenseman but his numbers show differently. He has just never developed that elite offensive ability as of yet. Which is okay. Also we need to let this mono thing go. That was like 5/6/7 years ago. He's better, he looks good. He's developed into more of a two way defenseman which is what we need anyways. We don't need him to score as many points as Rielly. We need him to help us keep the puck out of our net.

Also I don't get why this dumb thread has become shit on Rielly to prop Liljegren up. Absolutely dumb.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Reilly never really developed defensively...esp with that pylon Dion as his mentor. He showed much promise...but, let"s not kid ourselves, on a true contender he is not a#1 or #2...imho.

There's only 3 or 4 guys in league that can give you big minutes, points, Norris nominations, etc. There are a whole lot of teams that have 3-4's playing on the top line. You can actually win a cup with 4x number 4 Defensemen.

I have to ask the question though. If Rielly is a 3-4 then what is Liljegren?

He must be an 7-8 defenseman according to your standards.

 

[mapleleaf979]

I wouldn't be surprised but admittedly I don't think Rielly is nearly as good as his point totals would indicate. He's arguably the worst defensive dman on the team and really doesn't make too many offensive plays that stand out. I swear at least 60% of his points are just handing one of Marner or Matthews the puck and having them do the rest.

Thats true, Reilly is over rated for sure. He has no confidence shooting the puck, no deception running the PP, he isnt tough, he doesnt get pissed off losing a battle. I prefer Brodie over Reilly. Reilly pinches to much, he has no pride regarding defending his d zone. Reilly does not have all star level hockey sense. I think he is a #3.

Liljegren has played in 77 NHL games he might be a more balanced defenseman in the future vs Reilly who pinches like he wants to be playing forward.

 

[geo25]

There's only 3 or 4 guys in league that can give you big minutes, points, Norris nominations, etc. There are a whole lot of teams that have 3-4's playing on the top line. You can actually win a cup with 4x number 4 Defensemen.

I have to ask the question though. If Rielly is a 3-4 then what is Liljegren?

He must be an 7-8 defenseman according to your standards.

Liljegren is on a much higher trajectory and in 1-2 years will be far superior to the much over rated Reilly. We need more defensive defencemen imho...

 

[IPS]

What isn't true?

That he's had elite offensive seasons or that a guy who is supposed to be the more offensive dman in the pair ends up defending 2 on 1st more than whatever partner he has.

Yes, he doesn't do a great job defending 2 on 1s, but why the heck is he the one that's been defending 2 on 1s so much recently. The way people talk about him, you'd think that would always be his partner.

I'll take an example from our team, right this very season.

TJ Brodie was letting in an uncharacteristically high amount of goals at 5v5 playing with Rielly (a pairing which I said I was never a fan with from the start), and he gets moved to a pairing with Holl facing top competition (so Rielly doesn't have to) and all of a sudden he's back to the TJ Brodie we like to see.

Every year we do a carousal of partners with Rielly and none of them seem to stick. Hainsey was the last partner who seemed to click with him with his simple and effective defensive game.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

When has Liljegren demonstrated that type of offensive fire power? He’s gonna be a hell of a defenseman, but he won’t hold a candle to Riellys offensive abilities overall.

He was great offensively in the minors despite very little powerplay time in his age 19 (top 20 for points per game) and 20 (top 10 for points per game) seasons being behind Sandin and Rosen for PP opportunities. 5 on 5 he has always been able to score.

 

[ULF_55]

Really, it has been points based for a while.

Quinn Hughes - Morgan Rielly

Would you take Pesce over any of these guys?

 

[therealkoho]

When you have the puck as often as Rielly does and you play that many minutes there’s gonna be more gaffs

It's always been a bit of surprise to me that so many people fail to grasp the simple truth of this.

 

[therealkoho]

To be helpful, I put your original post above. That was your post in response me pointing out (to someone else) that 7.5 million isn't Rielly's "tier" as he probably would have gotten 9 million as a UFA.

Your response indicates that we'd be better off without Rielly which I strongly disagree with. Talent like that isn't easy to find, his contract is not an overpayment, he played great in the playoffs and he's a big reason our defence is better than it's been in the last couple of decades. You then obfuscated by bringing Holl into the conversation which is a different subject entirely and now you're calling me a "computer tough guy"?

Not sure what I said that you think is so "tough" but this entire exchange has been pretty mild so your comment is strange. If people disagreeing with you and trying to keep you on topic upsets you this much, you're going to have a hard time in any forum, on the internet or otherwise. Good luck.

I actually thought more "internet tough guy" but hey what do I know

I kid I kid

 

[therealkoho]

Yes, but he can't play defense.....many menstal miscues, NO shot....get real. - he's a #3....defensively at best

Just to clear the fog a bit

Diju mean menstrual or mental mistakes? It's a fine line, I know, but one that may need rectification.

 

[Community]

I'll take an example from our team, right this very season.

TJ Brodie was letting in an uncharacteristically high amount of goals at 5v5 playing with Rielly (a pairing which I said I was never a fan with from the start), and he gets moved to a pairing with Holl facing top competition (so Rielly doesn't have to) and all of a sudden he's back to the TJ Brodie we like to see.

Every year we do a carousal of partners with Rielly and none of them seem to stick. Hainsey was the last partner who seemed to click with him with his simple and effective defensive game.

Correlation does not equal causation.

The entire team had a rough start so I don't know why Rielly is being singled out. Also if we accept your premise than it has to go both ways and that means Liljegren looking so good is at least partly due to his defense partner (Rielly).

Furthermore, I'm not going to use the first ~10 games of a season to judge a player instead of their many previous seasons. The most important thing is that Rielly has easily been our best dman and most consistent player in the playoffs and that's what matters most from a Leafs POV.

 

[IPS]

Correlation does not equal causation.

The entire team had a rough start so I don't know why Rielly is being singled out. Also if we accept your premise than it has to go both ways and that means Liljegren looking so good is at least partly due to his defense partner (Rielly).

Furthermore, I'm not going to use the first ~10 games of a season to judge a player instead of their many previous seasons. The most important thing is that Rielly has easily been our best dman and most consistent player in the playoffs and that's what matters most from a Leafs POV.

Me and many others watched the games. Rielly was downright terrible in his own end and I don't think there's much debating it. And he doesn't have a history of being good in his own end either.

But I can't argue about your point on the playoffs, Rielly's always a stud come playoff time.

 

[geo25]

Just to clear the fog a bit

Diju mean menstrual or mental mistakes? It's a fine line, I know, but one that may need rectification.

I made as much of a mistske with menstrual as you did with "diju"....

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Liljegren is on a much higher trajectory and in 1-2 years will be far superior to the much over rated Reilly. We need more defensive defencemen imho...

All because he scored 2 goals in a game huh? Wow.

I think I disagree.

 

[geo25]

All because he scored 2 goals in a game huh? Wow.

I think I disagree.

I meant as a "defenceman"....ie as in to defend.....2 goals means nothing. Reilly is far more responsible for goals against than goals for..... are you blind? Is he your brother in law or something? I cant understand this blindness people have when it comes to him..get rid of him and his salary already....we NEED DEFENCEMEN...not defencemen that play as wingers and totally ignore or can't do their roles as defencemen. We will NEVER win a cup with him as our #1 or #2....I've been watching the Leafs since the 60's and we have had far better than him, regardless of the points they put up. He also has NO SHOT AT ALL and makes moronic plays all the time. Very low hockey IQ. Watch him closely & observe...

 

[therealkoho]

I made as much of a mistske with menstrual as you did with "diju"....

did I?

 

[ACC1224]

Just to clear the fog a bit

Diju mean menstrual or mental mistakes? It's a fine line, I know, but one that may need rectification.

One quite often leads to the other.
Source - husband and father of two girls.

 

[Havoc]

Reilly is possibly our worst defenceman in our own zone.

However his elite transition game gives him a free pass from me. The consequences from losing that are much greater than the consequences from his defensive short comings. There's work arounds for defensive short comings. There's no work arounds for what Rielly does bring.

Let's also end this trend of depleting our speed identity. Rielly is an excellent asset to have and its more on every management since his draft year for not finding / developing the perfect shut down partner for him.

As for Lil I highly doubt he will ever touch Rielly offensively but yes he has a good chance of being a better overall defenceman at the same ages.

 

[therealkoho]

One quite often leads to the other.
Source - husband and father of two girls.

So true!