Is Leon Drasaitl a generational hockey player?

[KoozNetsOff 92]

The fact that so many people liked this post is seriously a head scratcher.

I’m sorry, you identify that McDavid is getting more points, yes. But then you clearly identify Drai is scoring more goals. You then show that neither of them are winning awards at a clearly generational pace, cool? But in the least considered voting competition, Drai doesn’t get voted to first or second teams. Ok.

And somehow you’ve drawn the conclusion from your poorly presented data that these players are separate tiers. OK.

The real and only question for Drai is whether or not he is a product of his own talent or if he is a product of McDavid. I think we can all agree that McDavid is “more talented.” The question is whether or not Drai’s track record is generational.

The answer is still probably no, but he’s an edge case. Does he keep pumping out 110+ point seasons/paces for the next 5-6 years? If so, is it because of McDavid? These are the questions one should ask.

I was going to give a serious reply but then I noticed in your next post you mentioned that Sakic and Yzerman are generational players. So never mind.

 

[Dr Beinfest]

I was going to give a serious reply but then I noticed in your next post you mentioned that Sakic and Yzerman are generational players. So never mind.

Wow you’re so clever with this response. “I dont have a solid response so let me try to look smart.” Give me a break.

 

[swissexpert]

Oh, so generational, generational, and generational. What the f*** am I even reading? You just named three top 10 players of all time in scoring, one of which is #2 and missed 3 point per game capable seasons. I mean like sure, if you want to discredit the era they played in and remove Sakic and Yzerman, fine. Do as you wish. Jagr though? Are we kidding??

To call Yzerman and Sakic generational is stretching it I think. On average, there can't be more than 1 or maybe 2 generational players every 20 years.
We're in the Crosby/McDavid era right now and this is why Malkin/Draisaitl/Kucherov are not generational.
The era before was about Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr

 

[Dr Beinfest]

To call Yzerman and Sakic generational is stretching it I think. On average, there can't be more than 1 or maybe 2 generational players every 20 years.
We're in the Crosby/McDavid era right now and this is why Malkin/Draisaitl/Kucherov are not generational.
The era before was about Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr

The thing is generations overlap. But a lot of what it means to be “generational” also has to do with how you perform across different eras. Crosby/Ovi overlap with McDavid and neither invalidates the other. Yzerman/Lemieux/Sakic are ever so slightly sandwiched in between those generations and it’s not clear where they belong. Are they contemporaries of Gretzky or of Jagr?

Either way, like I said, it’s fair to criticize Yzerman and Sakic from the era in which they played through. To merely shrug them off as not in the conversation though makes me wonder how we are supposed to get to 2-3 players every 10-15 years if literally nobody is eligible other than Gretzky/Howe/Orr.

To be clear, Sidney Crosby is 35+ years old. His generation is past. He’s not of the same generation as Connor McDavid.

 

[swissexpert]

The thing is generations overlap. But a lot of what it means to be “generational” also has to do with how you perform across different eras. Crosby/Ovi overlap with McDavid and neither invalidates the other. Yzerman/Lemieux/Sakic are ever so slightly sandwiched in between those generations and it’s not clear where they belong. Are they contemporaries of Gretzky or of Jagr?

Either way, like I said, it’s fair to criticize Yzerman and Sakic from the era in which they played through. To merely shrug them off as not in the conversation though makes me wonder how we are supposed to get to 2-3 players every 10-15 years if literally nobody is eligible other than Gretzky/Howe/Orr.

To be clear, Sidney Crosby is 35+ years old. His generation is past. He’s not of the same generation as Connor McDavid.

1. I didn't shrug them off as not in the conversation. I said it's stretching the word 'generational' if we include them.
It would mean we saw 5 or 6 generational players in the league around 1993 which is by its own definition a bit odd.

2. No one said we should have 2-3 generational players every 10 years, that is only your own definition. A generation is longer than that. Yes they overlap and of course Lemieux can be one even if he's overlapping with Gretzky. But with Jagr too, we already are at 3 for that timeframe.
Sakic/Yzerman were franchise players, superstar hall of famers but so were Messier, Hull, Selanne or Forsberg.

3. Yes, Crosby and McDavid are different generations. Ovechkin is a generational goal scorer too, Lidstrom a generational Dman during the same years.

I think we just don't have the same definition.

A generational talent means that said player, during his prime years, defined the peak of the league, untouched for many years.
Longetivity isn't a factor for me, hence why I wouldn't call Messier generational, even Jagr could be questioned.

 

[Dr Beinfest]

1. I didn't shrug them off as not in the conversation. I said it's stretching the word 'generational' if we include them.
It would mean we saw 5 or 6 generational players in the league around 1993 which is by its own definition a bit odd.

2. No one said we should have 2-3 generational players every 10 years, that is only your own definition. A generation is longer than that. Yes they overlap and of course Lemieux can be one even if he's overlapping with Gretzky. But with Jagr too, we already are at 3 for that timeframe.
Sakic/Yzerman were franchise players, superstar hall of famers but so were Messier, Hull, Selanne or Forsberg.

3. Yes, Crosby and McDavid are different generations. Ovechkin is a generational goal scorer too, Lidstrom a generational Dman during the same years.

I think we just don't have the same definition.

A generational talent means that said player, during his prime years, defined the peak of the league, untouched for many years.
Longetivity isn't a factor for me, hence why I wouldn't call Messier generational, even Jagr could be questioned.

Sorry for the confusion, the “merely shrug it off” comment wasn’t directed at you. It was referencing the former poster.

Regarding every 10-15 years, that is how long a generation in hockey goes on for. After 15 years you have a nearly 100% refresh of players in the league. I said 10-15, not 10, and you’re skewing the point when you take that lower limit. Maybe some people think this is supposed to mimic real generations, but that’s silly. Humans live twice as long (or more) as a generation. Hockey players only play in half a generation’s worth of time. The absolute best of the best will make it 20 years. The scales are way off. It’s a pretty reasonable statement to say you can have new generational talent appear every 10-15 years. Sometimes you get none though. There’s no guarantee or requirement that one exists.

Regarding longevity, I think it’s certainly a factor. That isn’t to mean longevity makes up for lack of sustained peak. But to be generational, I’m really not interested in the guy who was the best player in the league for 5 years and then fizzled out. But if you were consistently top-5 for 15 years, I mean… that’s literally Sidney Crosby. He’s got two MVPs with accompanying Art Ross trophies. He was the best… twice. But he’s generational talent. If he fizzled out 5 years ago and was a struggling legacy act, I would probably challenge that statement.

 

[La Bamba]

Oh, so generational, generational, and generational. What the f*** am I even reading? You just named three top 10 players of all time in scoring, one of which is #2 and missed 3 point per game capable seasons. I mean like sure, if you want to discredit the era they played in and remove Sakic and Yzerman, fine. Do as you wish. Jagr though? Are we kidding??

well it sounds like you're someone who just labels a lot more people as generational than some. imo, if you're gonna name every generational then whats even the point?

Generation should be reserved for guys like Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux who are heads and shoulders above their peers

 

[Dr Beinfest]

well it sounds like you're someone who just labels a lot more people as generational than some. imo, if you're gonna name every generational then whats even the point?

Generation should be reserved for guys like Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux who are heads and shoulders above their peers

I’m not naming everyone as generational. I’m appalled that the second highest scoring player of all time is being discarded in such a fashion. a guy who cruised through the dead puck era at his prime ages, nonetheless. Sorry, I decided that two other top-10 of all time players should be in the conversation. As in, the top 0.1%.