Is Leon Draisaitl on pace to be the best non-“big six” nation hockey player ever?

[CanadienShark]

Thanks Dennis. I still don't see what the relevancy of Drai doing something 4 years ago when he hasn't maintained that level of play.

Nobody said Chara played with scrubs, and none of those players were apart of the thin defensive core that I mentioned Chara anchored. The Bruins defense wasn't very deep, and Chara logged lots of minutes.

Chara was an endurance freak. He was also an important leader, I believe he won the Messier award during that cup year.

I just can't see how Drai has put himself on a higher level. That is where he seems to be getting credit for something he hasn't done. Chara helped lead a team to a cup. Drai has the best player in the world and a good team around him, and will have other chances.

1. Dennis? Huh? What kind of lame insult is that?

Anyways... You should probably check out his stats page. It would show you that he's consistently hit or paced for at least 100+ points in 6 straight years (5/6 he hit it). He's one of the most consistent elite goalscorer and passer threats in the league, as evidenced by being tied for most 50 goal, 50 assist seasons since 2000. Very good chance he becomes the sole holder of that title soon.

2. You basically just did. He had some top end defensive forwards AND defencemen playing with him, as well as two elite, superstar, Vezina winning goaltenders. Give me a break.

3. I'm not sure what you're not seeing about Draisaitl and the playoffs. Once again, since you continue to gloss over it, he's one of the most dominant playoff players EVER in the NHL.

Look, if you value "fitness freak" and the Messier award more than the Hart and Lindsay, then you do you. Have at it.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

1. Dennis? Huh? What kind of lame insult is that?

Stop playing the victim.

Anyways... You should probably check out his stats page. It would show you that he's consistently hit or paced for at least 100+ points in 6 straight years (5/6 he hit it). He's one of the most consistent elite goalscorer and passer threats in the league, as evidenced by being tied for most 50 goal, 50 assist seasons since 2000. Very good chance he becomes the sole holder of that title soon.

Ive seen his stat page. Drai is a very good hockey player.

2. You basically just did. He had some top end defensive forwards AND defencemen playing with him, as well as two elite, superstar, Vezina winning goaltenders. Give me a break.

He anchored one of the weakest D-cores to a cup in recent memory. Not sure why you keep bringing up good players on his team that play other positions and saying I said things I didn't. I know who Tim Thomas and Patrice Bergeron are, and yes, they are good players.

3. I'm not sure what you're not seeing about Draisaitl and the playoffs.

I am not seeing him lead his team to a cup. I am not seeing him dominate in big moments deep into the playoffs.

Once again, since you continue to gloss over it, he's one of the most dominant playoff players EVER in the NHL.

So is Chara. 2011 is a long time ago, and I know Chara isn't competing against Lidstrom for Norris trophies and riding his bike all over the world so he isn't as fun to like on these boards. But he was one of the most dominant and unique defenseman to ever grace the NHL.

Look, if you value "fitness freak" and the Messier award more than the Hart and Lindsay, then you do you. Have at it.

I put value in watching Chara lead his team to a cup. I will value Draisaitl when he makes a big splash in the later rounds and helps his team do the same. To care more about the Hart and Lindsay than the cup as a fan seems odd to me, but you do you.

 

[CanadienShark]

Stop playing the victim.

Ive seen his stat page. Drai is a very good hockey player.

He anchored one of the weakest D-cores to a cup in recent memory. Not sure why you keep bringing up good players on his team that play other positions and saying I said things I didn't. I know who Tim Thomas and Patrice Bergeron are, and yes, they are good players.

I am not seeing him lead his team to a cup. I am not seeing him dominate in big moments deep into the playoffs.

So is Chara. 2011 is a long time ago, and I know Chara isn't competing against Lidstrom for Norris trophies and riding his bike all over the world so he isn't as fun to like on these boards. But he was one of the most dominant and unique defenseman to ever grace the NHL.

I put value in watching Chara lead his team to a cup. I will value Draisaitl when he makes a big splash in the later rounds and helps his team do the same. To care more about the Hart and Lindsay than the cup as a fan seems odd to me, but you do you.

1. Victim? Why did you call me Dennis? I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about.

2. And yet you keep arguing that he doesn't have the pedigree to be in the conversation with the best players and continue to argue against facts.

3. Because they're relevant. And Boston had some excellent players who played the defence position as well. Weakest? Nah. That would be Pittsburgh's recent ones by a longshot. Or even Florida this year is comparable. Boston had an average defensive corps relative to cup winners and played excellent team defence, supported by high end goaltending (by far the best, actually). Just like those two teams I mentioned.

4. How do you define big moments? Chara wasn't ever going to be considered for the Conn Smythe. Draisaitl has consistently been among the highest scorers in the history of the NHL in the playoffs.

5. Ahhhh, unique is your argument now. Got it. Unique ≠ greater player. John Scott was also unique.

6. So cups are the only thing that matters to you then? Because individually, Draisaitl is at least as good (I'd argue better) and only halfway through his career.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

1. Victim? Why did you call me Dennis? I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about.

Because you made it seem like an implication was as real as actually saying something.

2. And yet you keep arguing that he doesn't have the pedigree to be in the conversation with the best players and continue to argue against facts.

I never argued he doesn't have the pedigree to be in the conversation. I even placed him number 2 behind Chara. I just don't see what he has done to surpass Chara. Not sure what 'fact' I have been denying.

3. Because they're relevant. And Boston had some excellent players who played the defence position as well. Weakest? Nah. That would be Pittsburgh's recent ones by a longshot. Or even Florida this year is comparable. Boston had an average defensive corps relative to cup winners and played excellent team defence, supported by high end goaltending (by far the best, actually). Just like those two teams I mentioned.

They aren't relevant in a conversation about players who were apart of Boston's defensive core in 2011. Boston had a very average defensive core in 2011 compared to other teams in the league, and is right there in the conversation with Pittsburgh for weakest defensive cores.

4. How do you define big moments? Chara wasn't ever going to be considered for the Conn Smythe. Draisaitl has consistently been among the highest scorers in the history of the NHL in the playoffs.

Big moments would be times when your team faces adversity and the stakes are high. As the stakes got high for the Oilers, Drai didn't play well. That would be games 6 and 7 in round 2 vs Vancouver and on that Drai didn't look good, and you could argue those games and the ones following were the highest stakes moments Drai has ever been apart of in his career.

5. Ahhhh, unique is your argument now. Got it. Unique ≠ greater player. John Scott was also unique.

If you are going to act ridiculous, I am going to disengage. Obviously I never changed my argument for Chara to revolve around his uniqueness.

6. So cups are the only thing that matters to you then? Because individually, Draisaitl is at least as good (I'd argue better) and only halfway through his career.

Dude you can't seem to hold a normal conversation. Go touch grass. Drai is a good player and I hope for your sake he accomplishes all the things you want him to and then some.

 

[CanadienShark]

Because you made it seem like an implication was as real as actually saying something.

I never argued he doesn't have the pedigree to be in the conversation. I even placed him number 2 behind Chara. I just don't see what he has done to surpass Chara. Not sure what 'fact' I have been denying.

They aren't relevant in a conversation about players who were apart of Boston's defensive core in 2011. Boston had a very average defensive core in 2011 compared to other teams in the league, and is right there in the conversation with Pittsburgh for weakest defensive cores.

Big moments would be times when your team faces adversity and the stakes are high. As the stakes got high for the Oilers, Drai didn't play well. That would be games 6 and 7 in round 2 vs Vancouver and on that Drai didn't look good, and you could argue those games and the ones following were the highest stakes moments Drai has ever been apart of in his career.

If you are going to act ridiculous, I am going to disengage. Obviously I never changed my argument for Chara to revolve around his uniqueness.

Dude you can't seem to hold a normal conversation. Go touch grass. Drai is a good player and I hope for your sake he accomplishes all the things you want him to and then some.

1. You won't answer this simple question that I've asked twice. Can you explain your bizarre insult?

2. You've consistently refused to acknowledge facts in his favour.

3. And Florida this year. And Washington. Fact of the matter, it was a middle of the road defence compared to other cup winners.

4. So if he's so utterly dominant that it never gets to what you perceive to be high stakes, what then?

5. Finally.

6. Oh the irony.

 

[Auston Marlander]

He is 100% on pace to be, key word is pace. To be the best he'll need longevity in most people's eyes.

 

[MessierII]

You say Voynov but not Doughty?

and Richards but not Brown?

Crazy crazy argument.

Doughty never left. He’s still there so yeah that would make no sense. Brown stayed a long time and they never won a round again with him either.

 

[K1900L]

Is already.

 

[jigglysquishy]

While Draisaitl has been strong in the playoffs, that he's struggled in the last three series the Oilers were eliminated in will stain his legacy. I get he's battled injuries, but it's hockey.

Year	Opponent	Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	+-
2024	Florida	7	0	3	3	-2
2023	Vegas	6	6	1	7	-5
2022	Colorado	4	0	6	6	-3
Total		17	6	10	16	-10

McDavid for comparison

Year	Opponent	Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	+-
2024	Florida	7	3	8	11	+5
2023	Vegas	6	5	5	10	0
2022	Colorado	4	3	4	7	-4
Total		17	11	17	28	+1

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

While Draisaitl has been strong in the playoffs, that he's struggled in the last three series the Oilers were eliminated in will stain his legacy. I get he's battled injuries, but it's hockey.

Year	Opponent	Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	+-
2024	Florida	7	0	3	3	-2
2023	Vegas	6	6	1	7	-5
2022	Colorado	4	0	6	6	-3
Total		17	6	10	16	-10

McDavid for comparison

Year	Opponent	Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	+-
2024	Florida	7	3	8	11	+5
2023	Vegas	6	5	5	10	0
2022	Colorado	4	3	4	7	-4
Total		17	11	17	28	+1

So the only series he didn't eclipse a point per game was Florida.

 

[GoldenKnight]

Depends on how you value the best Slovaks, namely Chara and Hossa

And Stastny senior.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Thanks Dennis. I still don't see what the relevancy of Drai doing something 4 years ago when he hasn't maintained that level of play.

Nobody said Chara played with scrubs, and none of those players were apart of the thin defensive core that I mentioned Chara anchored. The Bruins defense wasn't very deep, and Chara logged lots of minutes.

Chara was an endurance freak. He was also an important leader, I believe he won the Messier award during that cup year.

I just can't see how Drai has put himself on a higher level. That is where he seems to be getting credit for something he hasn't done. Chara helped lead a team to a cup. Drai has the best player in the world and a good team around him, and will have other chances.

Im all for Chara getting his due historically, but calling the 2011 Bruins thin on defense is incredibly wrong.

Chara - Seidenberg
Boychuk - Ference
Kaberle - McQuaid

That is arguably the best 1-6 D group in the cap era.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

The same can be said of many, many Canadians, who are Canadian.

Sure. If your indigenous.

 

[jigglysquishy]

So the only series he didn't eclipse a point per game was Florida.

It's not that a PPG is bad. It's that it's a drop off from his play elsewhere. For someone who is arguably the second best offensive player in the last decade, it's just not enough.

Just compare to the previous round

Year	Opponent	Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	+-
2024	Dallas	6	2	2	4	0
2023	LA	6	7	4	11	+4
2022	Calgary	5	2	15	17	+8
Total		17	11	21	36	+12

McDavid for comparison

Year	Opponent	Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	+-
2024	Dallas	6	3	7	10	+2
2023	LA	6	3	7	10	-1
2022	Calgary	5	3	9	12	+9
Total		17	9	23	32	+10

So in elimination rounds

Draisaitl: 0.94 PPG
McDavid: 1.65 PPG

In rounds previous to being eliminated
Draisaitl: 2.12 PPG
McDavid: 1.88 PPG

I know Draisaitl has been injured. And I'll blame usage for that one. McDavid is unique in that he can absorb so many minutes as a forward. Draisaitl is asked to do the same in the playoffs and three years in a row he's battled injuries because of it.

If you're comparing him to a Kaprizov or Panarin, it is what it is. But when you're talking about someone who has been a ~1.5 PPG player for the last 5 seasons, dropping to that level just isn't good enough.

Again, I get the injury angle.

 

[Stephen]

Stop playing the victim.

Ive seen his stat page. Drai is a very good hockey player.

He anchored one of the weakest D-cores to a cup in recent memory. Not sure why you keep bringing up good players on his team that play other positions and saying I said things I didn't. I know who Tim Thomas and Patrice Bergeron are, and yes, they are good players.

I am not seeing him lead his team to a cup. I am not seeing him dominate in big moments deep into the playoffs.

So is Chara. 2011 is a long time ago, and I know Chara isn't competing against Lidstrom for Norris trophies and riding his bike all over the world so he isn't as fun to like on these boards. But he was one of the most dominant and unique defenseman to ever grace the NHL.

I put value in watching Chara lead his team to a cup. I will value Draisaitl when he makes a big splash in the later rounds and helps his team do the same. To care more about the Hart and Lindsay than the cup as a fan seems odd to me, but you do you.

Chara won his cup at 34. When he was 28 in 2005, the same age Draisaitl is at now he was still a number 2 defenseman in Ottawa routinely getting bounced from the playoffs by the Maple Leafs. The deepest he’d gone was the ECF in 2003 and he was by no means spearheading anything.

Safe to say Draisaitl has been on a much higher gear early in their careers and there’s plenty of runway for more legacy building.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Unhealthy? It's cool seeing the different types of players countries produce. Seeing who breaks the mold. Which countries develop players better/worse/differently. Which country in any given 5 years stretch is producing better goalies than Canada. Etc. People and countries are different and that's not bad

Were it that innocent, I would possibly agree with you.

Unfortunately, it inherently comes with a massive helping of nativism, nationalism, stereotyping, discrimination, othering, and dehumanization.

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

It's not that a PPG is bad. It's that it's a drop off from his play elsewhere. For someone who is arguably the second best offensive player in the last decade, it's just not enough.

Just compare to the previous round

Year	Opponent	Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	+-
2024	Dallas	6	2	2	4	0
2023	LA	6	7	4	11	+4
2022	Calgary	5	2	15	17	+8
Total		17	11	21	36	+12

McDavid for comparison

Year	Opponent	Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	+-
2024	Dallas	6	3	7	10	+2
2023	LA	6	3	7	10	-1
2022	Calgary	5	3	9	12	+9
Total		17	9	23	32	+10

So in elimination rounds

Draisaitl: 0.94 PPG
McDavid: 1.65 PPG

In rounds previous to being eliminated
Draisaitl: 2.12 PPG
McDavid: 1.88 PPG

I know Draisaitl has been injured. And I'll blame usage for that one. McDavid is unique in that he can absorb so many minutes as a forward. Draisaitl is asked to do the same in the playoffs and three years in a row he's battled injuries because of it.

If you're comparing him to a Kaprizov or Panarin, it is what it is. But when you're talking about someone who has been a ~1.5 PPG player for the last 5 seasons, dropping to that level just isn't good enough.

Again, I get the injury angle.

Okay so drai will have a stain on his legacy for his worst being amazing but not impossibly godly like his best. got it

 

[Soundwave]

It's not that a PPG is bad. It's that it's a drop off from his play elsewhere. For someone who is arguably the second best offensive player in the last decade, it's just not enough.

Just compare to the previous round

Year	Opponent	Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	+-
2024	Dallas	6	2	2	4	0
2023	LA	6	7	4	11	+4
2022	Calgary	5	2	15	17	+8
Total		17	11	21	36	+12

McDavid for comparison

Year	Opponent	Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	+-
2024	Dallas	6	3	7	10	+2
2023	LA	6	3	7	10	-1
2022	Calgary	5	3	9	12	+9
Total		17	9	23	32	+10

So in elimination rounds

Draisaitl: 0.94 PPG
McDavid: 1.65 PPG

In rounds previous to being eliminated
Draisaitl: 2.12 PPG
McDavid: 1.88 PPG

I know Draisaitl has been injured. And I'll blame usage for that one. McDavid is unique in that he can absorb so many minutes as a forward. Draisaitl is asked to do the same in the playoffs and three years in a row he's battled injuries because of it.

If you're comparing him to a Kaprizov or Panarin, it is what it is. But when you're talking about someone who has been a ~1.5 PPG player for the last 5 seasons, dropping to that level just isn't good enough.

Again, I get the injury angle.

In the Vegas series last year he was lighting them up like a Christmas tree the first 3 games of the series, that's why Pietrangelo couldn't stand it and made that insanely dirty whack of the stick to his forearm to injure him because they weren't able to stop him any way else.

 

[Voight]

He's had better seasons than McDavid and better stretches. Something Kopitar has never come remotely close to even sniffing. Sorry that it hurts you to hear. Draisaitl is going to retire as a whole other level of player.

2018.....

Chara won his cup at 34. When he was 28 in 2005, the same age Draisaitl is at now he was still a number 2 defenseman in Ottawa routinely getting bounced from the playoffs by the Maple Leafs. The deepest he’d gone was the ECF in 2003 and he was by no means spearheading anything.

Safe to say Draisaitl has been on a much higher gear early in their careers and there’s plenty of runway for more legacy building.

To be fair, defensemen usually hit their prime/peak in their late 20s and early 30s. Hence why at 26 he made his first AST and followed that up with another at 28, before winning his first Norris at 31.

Also in 2003 he was 2nd in ice time during that playoff run (25:07 to Reddens 25:08) so he was a pretty crucial part of the Sens. That year he also finished higher than Redden in Norris voting for what it's worth.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Depends on how you value the best Slovaks, namely Chara and Hossa

Hossa? Really? One of the best “support” players of all time sure.

 

[wetcoast]

Yeah, we don't count stuff that hasn't happened yet.

Thank goodness that the thread is about right now then and not what the OP actually said which was this.

Drai and his 1 top 6 hart trophy finish. Guy is just the new shiny obscure country toy

He's no Taylor Hall and obviously much better all time than Langway.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I put him slightly behind Nino Niederreiter

 

[Voight]

Hossa? Really? One of the best “support” players of all time sure.

I'm guessing you didn't watch hockey from 2003-2007 when he lead his team in scoring 2/3 seasons.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I mean defenseman don't usually get contention for the Hart. Chara has had seasons just as impressive as Drai's Hart campaign.

I have a healthy respect for Chara, but regardless of how Hart voting works, there was never a point where he was in the conversation for best player in the league.

 

[Stephen]

2018.....



To be fair, defensemen usually hit their prime/peak in their late 20s and early 30s. Hence why at 26 he made his first AST and followed that up with another at 28, before winning his first Norris at 31.

Also in 2003 he was 2nd in ice time during that playoff run (25:07 to Reddens 25:08) so he was a pretty crucial part of the Sens. That year he also finished higher than Redden in Norris voting for what it's worth.

Chara's early career trajectory and HHOF second half isn't all that typical, but that's only to say Draisaitl's been a high flyer with plenty of runway left for big legacy building seasons.