Is Leon Draisaitl on pace to be the best non-“big six” nation hockey player ever?

[MacMacandBarbie]

What about the year where he was the top scorer, most valuable by writers, voted best by fellow players?

Years where McDavid hasn't won the Hart, he was still the consensus best player in the league. You are getting into semantics if you are trying to argue a one year stretch of Draisaitl being 'the best player in the world' and using that as some basis for having a better resume than someone else. He won a Hart, lets just leave it at that.

Draisaitl was better than McDavid for the Oilers for a certain period of time, and as somebody who has watched every game both of them have played was absolutely 100% fully deserving of his MVP season.

Nobody said he wasn't deserving of his MVP season. He just has never been considered as better than McDavid, even during stretches where he and other players have outplayed McDavid and beat him out on awards.

 

[CanadienShark]

Years where McDavid hasn't won the Hart, he was still the consensus best player in the league. You are getting into semantics if you are trying to argue a one year stretch of Draisaitl being 'the best player in the world' and using that as some basis for having a better resume than someone else. He won a Hart, lets just leave it at that.


Nobody said he wasn't deserving of his MVP season. He just has never been considered as better than McDavid, even during stretches where he and other players have outplayed McDavid and beat him out on awards.

If you say so. Everyone else including players thinks otherwise. He's won an Art Ross and Ted Lindsay in addition to the Hart. His playoff points per game is something like top 5 in NHL history, right now. You're literally just making up your alternative version of reality. These are facts that I've pointed out to you. You're plugging your ears and saying facts don't matter.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

If you say so. Everyone else including players thinks otherwise. He's won an Art Ross and Ted Lindsay in addition to the Hart. His playoff points per game is something like top 5 in NHL history, right now. You're literally just making up your alternative version of reality. These are facts that I've pointed out to you. You're plugging your ears and saying facts don't matter.

Dude you are just saying one liners over and over again. I know Leon won a regular season MVP. He didn't win a 'Best player in the world' trophy, cause there is no such thing. But if there was, it would unanimously go to McDavid for as long as he remains in his prime. Saying otherwise is ridiculous, but you do you.

 

[J bo Jeans]

Draisaitl is already on pace to be ahead of Kopitar. Kopitar put up more than 80 points twice in 9 seasons. Drai has done it in 6 of 10 with 5 of those seasons being 100+. Draisaitl is also a far more prolific playoff scorer.

The Oilers are going to be favourites for the next couple of years. All it takes for Drai to pass Kopitar is a single Cup.


Much is said about defensive ability, but thats nearly always the last skill a player develops. Look at Crosby and Mcdavid as they get older and develop a more mature game their defensive prowess rises.

 

[CanadienShark]

Dude you are just saying one liners over and over again. I know Leon won a regular season MVP. He didn't win a 'Best player in the world' trophy, cause there is no such thing. But if there was, it would unanimously go to McDavid for as long as he remains in his prime. Saying otherwise is ridiculous, but you do you.

He's had better seasons than McDavid and better stretches. Something Kopitar has never come remotely close to even sniffing. Sorry that it hurts you to hear. Draisaitl is going to retire as a whole other level of player.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I was thinking Mikita as well...but I guess where saying technicality here. He came to Canada when he was 8. Draisaitl has been playing in Canada since he was 17 I think. But there is a difference here, Mikita is Canadian and played internationally for Canada, he was simply born in Czechoslovakia. Draisaitl is German and plays internationally for Germany.

He was not simply born on there. His parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc were. He is ethnically slovakian born in his home country.

 

[On The Prowl]

Years where McDavid hasn't won the Hart, he was still the consensus best player in the league. You are getting into semantics if you are trying to argue a one year stretch of Draisaitl being 'the best player in the world' and using that as some basis for having a better resume than someone else. He won a Hart, lets just leave it at that.


Nobody said he wasn't deserving of his MVP season. He just has never been considered as better than McDavid, even during stretches where he and other players have outplayed McDavid and beat him out on awards.

You cant tell me what I think sir, he absolutely was putting that question in my head for that period of time, wondering if Draisaitl was actually in fact better than McDavid, that's how good Draisaitl was at his absolute peak.

 

[EXTRAS]

Rod Langway was born in Taiwan.

He was 2x Norris Trophy Winner. He finished top 5 in norris votes 5x. He won a cup. He finished top 4 in Hart voting 3x (which is actually insane for a defenseman).

 

[wetcoast]

Draisaitl has never been the best played in the league. He has had some good seasons, but so has players like Chara, who I can't see him ever surpassing, as he isn't on pace to do so. Chara was in the conversation for best defenseman in the league for a decade, anchored a defense that needed him to play high usage minutes and performed on the largest stage spectacularly many times. I haven't seen Leon shine in the handful of moments his team has been in the brightest of lights, and that is a knock on him.

Man do you even read this stuff before posting it?

Either Drai kicked your dog or he stole your lunch as there is like zero logic in your posts and even after someone pointed out that Draisaitl had a finger and a broken rib you are still doubling down.

The part about Draisaitl never being in the conversation of best player in the league is garbage as he was fully deserving of his Hart and actually played extremely well with McDavid injured and he has hit higher heights and has a much better consecutive prime than Chara and basically has a better consecutive prime than Lafleur minus the SC's.

 

[Stephen]

Mikita was not a canadian. None of his family were born in canada. He moved to canada at 8 living with his aunt n uncle who had moved from slovakia to canada. Just because you learn a sport in a different country doesnt make you from said country.
What he can be called is a naturalized canadian but no he is slovakian first n foremost which he himself said.

If he learned the game in Canada, represented Canada and is a naturalized Canadian citizen, guess what…

 

[wetcoast]

Rod Langway was born in Taiwan.

Sure I remember vividly when Rod played for the Taiwanese National hockey team...wait he didn't play ice hockey until age 12 in Randolph, Massachusetts but let's not let that fact get in the way of Taiwanese hockey history shall we?

He was 2x Norris Trophy Winner. He finished top 5 in norris votes 5x. He won a cup. He finished top 4 in Hart voting 3x (which is actually insane for a defenseman).

His Norris trophies are in hindsight somewhat debatable as were his Hart voting results but there was a narrative and backlash against offensive Dmen dominating norris voting in the early 80s so there is that but his legacy is somewhat mythical and hypocritical really.

Guys like Dionne and Thornton get a ton of flack for their playoff resumes yet Langway seems to get a complete pass there.....Drai is easily better al time as well.

 

[Stephen]

He was not simply born on there. His parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc were. He is ethnically slovakian born in his home country.

The same can be said of many, many Canadians, who are Canadian.

 

[Dhockey16]

The emphasis on place of birth and nationality within the hockey community is unhealthy and without merit.

Unhealthy? It's cool seeing the different types of players countries produce. Seeing who breaks the mold. Which countries develop players better/worse/differently. Which country in any given 5 years stretch is producing better goalies than Canada. Etc. People and countries are different and that's not bad

 

[wetcoast]

Yeah, we don't count stuff that hasn't happened yet.

Thank goodness that the thread is about right now then and not what the OP actually said which was this.

There’s a big six in hockey of Canada, USA, Russia, Czechia, Sweden, and Finland that have produced most of the best players of all time, including most of the best current players.

Is Leon Draisaitl on pace to become the best hockey player ever from another country?

But maybe you also missed that in the title...wait it states the same words.

 

[EXTRAS]

Sure I remember vividly when Rod played for the Taiwanese National hockey team...wait he didn't play ice hockey until age 12 in Randolph, Massachusetts but let's not let that fact get in the way of Taiwanese hockey history shall we?


His Norris trophies are in hindsight somewhat debatable as were his Hart voting results but there was a narrative and backlash against offensive Dmen dominating norris voting in the early 80s so there is that but his legacy is somewhat mythical and hypocritical really.

Guys like Dionne and Thornton get a ton of flack for their playoff resumes yet Langway seems to get a complete pass there.....Drai is easily better al time as well.

Drai and his 1 top 6 hart trophy finish. Guy is just the new shiny obscure country toy

 

[Bounces R Way]

"Points is all that matters"
-morons who don't know puck

 

[Deplorable Lenny]

How many cups he win without Richards and Carter and Voynov etc? Yes Kopi won cups and won them young but what did he accomplish when he didn’t have an elite supporting cast? I see a lot of really bad finishes in there.

You say Voynov but not Doughty?

and Richards but not Brown?

Crazy crazy argument.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

He's had better seasons than McDavid and better stretches. Something Kopitar has never come remotely close to even sniffing. Sorry that it hurts you to hear. Draisaitl is going to retire as a whole other level of player.

Well I never brought up Kopitar, I said Drai won't ever surpass Chara. Best Drai can hope to do is edge out Chara at this point.

 

[CanadienShark]

Well I never brought up Kopitar, I said Drai won't ever surpass Chara. Best Drai can hope to do is edge out Chara at this point.

Chara never had a season as the best player in the league. He was consistently great, but so is Draisaitl.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Man do you even read this stuff before posting it?

Either Drai kicked your dog or he stole your lunch as there is like zero logic in your posts and even after someone pointed out that Draisaitl had a finger and a broken rib you are still doubling down.

Doubling down on saying that Drai didn't perform well? Its true, and you can use injuries or whatever, but he didn't play well, and sorry you and his fanboys want to give him credit for something he didn't do. To be considered one of the best playoff performers of a generation, you have to actually demonstrate it on the biggest stage and not just be a PPG stat leader.

The part about Draisaitl never being in the conversation of best player in the league is garbage as he was fully deserving of his Hart and actually played extremely well with McDavid injured and he has hit higher heights and has a much better consecutive prime than Chara and basically has a better consecutive prime than Lafleur minus the SC's.

Pretending like McDavid hasn't been the consensus best player in the league since he surpassed Crosby in 2018 is honestly silly. Talking about stretches where people performed as well as him is valid, but nobody is taking you seriously in any conversation if you think Leon is a better hockey player than McDavid.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Chara never had a season as the best player in the league. He was consistently great, but so is Draisaitl.

I mean defenseman don't usually get contention for the Hart. Chara has had seasons just as impressive as Drai's Hart campaign.

 

[CanadienShark]

I mean defenseman don't usually get contention for the Hart. Chara has had seasons just as impressive as Drai's Hart campaign.

And again, Draisaitl hit these heights much earlier in his career. He's already at worst on par, projecting to be better all time. That is what this topic is about after all. I don't get why you're so insulted by this idea.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

And again, Draisaitl hit these heights much earlier in his career.

We have exchanged a handful of messages back and forth, this is the first time you have brought this up. Not sure why this would be all that relevant considering he hit those heights 4 years ago.

He's already at worst on par, projecting to be better all time. That is what this topic is about after all. I don't get why you're so insulted by this idea.

I see a stretch where Chara was either number 1 or 2 on everyone's defenseman rankings and anchored a relatively thin defensive core to a cup. In a season where Leon was on a team good enough to make a similar impact, he was hurt and didn't play well. I don't see any indication he is going to return to his Hart trophy form either.

 

[CanadienShark]

We have exchanged a handful of messages back and forth, this is the first time you have brought this up. Not sure why this would be all that relevant considering he hit those heights 4 years ago.

I see a stretch where Chara was either number 1 or 2 on everyone's defenseman rankings and anchored a relatively thin defensive core to a cup. In a season where Leon was on a team good enough to make a similar impact, he was hurt and didn't play well. I don't see any indication he is going to return to his Hart trophy form either.

1. No, it's pretty clear because I've clearly stated that he's got a ways to go and you replied that were not giving him credit for things not yet done. The implication is there.

2. Let's not pretend that Chara played with scrubs. He played along with one of the most dominant (albeit short) peak goalies in history. He played with prime Bergeron. He played with prime Marchand. He had an absurdly good supporting cast all throughout his career with Boston.

Don't get me wrong, Chara was great, but Draisaitl has absolutely put himself on that level (I'd argue higher), and has a lot of career left to pull away.

To add, here's something to think about. You can pretty much expect 50 goals + 50 assists from him. The only guy to even match him since 2000 is prime Ovechkin. There's a very good chance Draisaitl eclipses Ovechkin in that regard this year.

NHL Players With 50 Goals 50 Assists In One Season Since 2000 | StatMuse

Jaromir Jagr lit the lamp 52 times when recording 50+ assists in 2000-01.

www.statmuse.com

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

1. No, it's pretty clear because I've clearly stated that he's got a ways to go and you replied that were not giving him credit for things not yet done. The implication is there.

Thanks Dennis. I still don't see what the relevancy of Drai doing something 4 years ago when he hasn't maintained that level of play.

2. Let's not pretend that Chara played with scrubs. He played along with one of the most dominant (albeit short) peak goalies in history. He played with prime Bergeron. He played with prime Marchand. He had an absurdly good supporting cast all throughout his career with Boston.

Nobody said Chara played with scrubs, and none of those players were apart of the thin defensive core that I mentioned Chara anchored. The Bruins defense wasn't very deep, and Chara logged lots of minutes.

Chara was an endurance freak. He was also an important leader, I believe he won the Messier award during that cup year.

Don't get me wrong, Chara was great, but Draisaitl has absolutely put himself on that level (I'd argue higher), and has a lot of career left to pull away.

I just can't see how Drai has put himself on a higher level. That is where he seems to be getting credit for something he hasn't done. Chara helped lead a team to a cup. Drai has the best player in the world and a good team around him, and will have other chances.