Is Leon Draisaitl Gonna Break Nathan MacKinnon's Hart?

[daver]

Draisaitl should be the favourite if MVP voting were objective. Unfortunately, though, it is up to the media, and the media darling MacKinnon (Sid's bestie) is about to win it two years in a row without being the best player in either season.

Who was better than Mac last year and why?

Kucherov? Four more points, less goals and much worse on-ice/off ice contribution than MacKinnon = better?

 

[daver]

At this point, neither player has a compelling "carrying their team" to the playoffs "all by themselves" narrative.

It will come down to who had the better season.

 

[Muffin]

Draisaitl should be the favourite if MVP voting were objective. Unfortunately, though, it is up to the media, and the media darling MacKinnon (Sid's bestie) is about to win it two years in a row without being the best player in either season.

All the players must love him too since he won the Ted Lindsay too. In what way is Draisaitl the better player? He's being outscored by MacKinnon playing with the best player in the league on supposedly the favorites to win the cup.

It's just absolutely hilarious watching you do mental gymnastics to discount MacKinnon. If you believe Kucherov was the best player last year you should believe MacKinnon is the best player this season because all the knocks about MacKinnon this year were said about Kucherov last year, empty net merchants etc.

So you believe Kucherov was the best player last year and Draisaitl is the best player this year? Explain this to me then because MacKinnon was essentially Kucherov was las year

 

[benfranklin]

Draisaitl should be the favourite if MVP voting were objective. Unfortunately, though, it is up to the media, and the media darling MacKinnon (Sid's bestie) is about to win it two years in a row without being the best player in either season.

You really believe media will vote more for Sid's bestie vs the player who plays 50% of ice time with McDavid next to him and the other 50% getting weaker D matchups? Really?!

Leon needs 70 goals, the Oilers winning the division, and to be a good 10+ points clear of MacKinnon and and 15-20 clear of McDavid to win it.

And the Lindsay >>>>>> Hart. Shit will get real interesting around here if one wins one and one wins the other.

 

[crowfish]

Who was better than Mac last year and why?

Kucherov? Four more points, less goals and much worse on-ice/off ice contribution than MacKinnon = better?

Connor McDavid

He had a higher pts/game (1.73 vs 1.7) despite playing 1.5hrs less on the powerplay and having 3 less empty net points. And then not that they count for the voting, but the playoffs proved who the real MVP was (just like they did the year Matthews stole it from him).

McDavid of course was drawing dead to win the MVP last year, since it is a media glaze award and not an objective reality award. So I am not surprised he would receive almost no 1st place votes despite being the better player.

 

[McDNicks17]

All the players must love him too since he won the Ted Lindsay too. In what way is Draisaitl the better player? He's being outscored by MacKinnon playing with the best player in the league on supposedly the favorites to win the cup.

It's just absolutely hilarious watching you do mental gymnastics to discount MacKinnon. If you believe Kucherov was the best player last year you should believe MacKinnon is the best player this season because all the knocks about MacKinnon this year were said about Kucherov last year, empty net merchants etc.

McDavid has been far from that this year.

Draisaitl has basically double McDavid's 5v5 points over the last 30 games.

Drai has as many 5v5 points as the #2 and #3 scorer on the team combined during that stretch. He's pretty much the only reason the Oilers are winning any games lately.

 

[crowfish]

All the players must love him too since he won the Ted Lindsay too. In what way is Draisaitl the better player? He's being outscored by MacKinnon playing with the best player in the league on supposedly the favorites to win the cup.

It's just absolutely hilarious watching you do mental gymnastics to discount MacKinnon. If you believe Kucherov was the best player last year you should believe MacKinnon is the best player this season because all the knocks about MacKinnon this year were said about Kucherov last year, empty net merchants etc.

I believe McDavid was the best player last year, because he was. Kucherov and MacKinnon had very close seasons. I would give the slight edge to MacKinnon over him last year because of the empty net shenanigans.

 

[benfranklin]

Connor McDavid

He had a higher pts/game (1.73 vs 1.7) despite playing 1.5hrs less on the powerplay and having 3 less empty net points. And then not that they count for the voting, but the playoffs proved who the real MVP was (just like they did the year Matthews stole it from him).

McDavid of course was drawing dead to win the MVP last year, since it is a media glaze award and not an objective reality award. So I am not surprised he would receive almost no 1st place votes despite being the better player.

Lindsay?

McDavid has been far from that this year.

Draisaitl has basically double McDavid's 5v5 points over the last 30 games.

Drai has as many 5v5 points as the #2 and #3 scorer on the team combined during that stretch. He's pretty much the only reason the Oilers are winning any games lately.

Why are we counting the last 30 games dating to 12.28.24? Theyre 16-12-2 during that time. Curious of why that number is relevant. I see 16 PP 33 Total points for Mcdavid, 16 PP 45 Total points for Draisaitl so 29 to 17.. I dont feel like looking, but curious how many of those points they were still on the ice together, when maybe McDavid didnt get a point or Draisaitl saw a weaker d matchup because the big dogs just finished with McDavid.

 

[daver]

Connor McDavid

He had a higher pts/game (1.73 vs 1.7) despite playing 1.5hrs less on the powerplay and having 3 less empty net points. And then not that they count for the voting, but the playoffs proved who the real MVP was (just like they did the year Matthews stole it from him).

McDavid of course was drawing dead to win the MVP last year, since it is a media glaze award and not an objective reality award. So I am not surprised he would receive almost no 1st place votes despite being the better player.

For starters, MacKinnon had 8 more points than McDavid, full stop. That's more valuable.

The PP TOI is completely irrelevant.

And EN points are meaningless are they? How about meaningless 3rd period points? Mac did a lot more damage in the 1st and 2nd period than McDavid did which likely had more value for his team.

And most people are favouring Draisaitl this year for his goalscoring so Mac had that advantage too.

 

[Dallas Winston]

Crosby and Jagr thank Hf for retro actively awarding them the 06 n 10 hart.

Crosby 51 goals 109 points. Hart winner 29 goals 112 points
Jagr 54 goals 123 points. Hart winner 29 goals 125 points

 

[Duke74]

You really believe media will vote more for Sid's bestie vs the player who plays 50% of ice time with McDavid next to him and the other 50% getting weaker D matchups? Really?!

Leon needs 70 goals, the Oilers winning the division, and to be a good 10+ points clear of MacKinnon and and 15-20 clear of McDavid to win it.

And the Lindsay >>>>>> Hart. Shit will get real interesting around here if one wins one and one wins the other.

So Draisaitl would have to play on a team completely barren of talent, face the top shutdown line and D-pair of every team, and still put up 50+ goals and 100+ points to get your respect as a legit player. Gotcha.

 

[crowfish]

For starters, MacKinnon had 8 more points than McDavid, full stop. That's more valuable.

The PP TOI is completely irrelevant.

And EN points are meaningless are they? How about meaningless 3rd period points? Mac did a lot more damage in the 1st and 2nd period than McDavid did which likely had more value for his team.

And most people are favouring Draisaitl this year for his goalscoring so Mac had that advantage too.

8 more points in 6 more games played*, full stop, don't forget the details, even when they are inconvenient for your argument

PP TOI is irrelevant? Lmao what? Are you saying if McDavid played an extra 1.5hrs of powerplay time his stats would not benefit greatly from that? Historically he earns about 10 pts/hr on the powerplay. So it's literally a 15 point difference.

Crosby and Jagr thank Hf for retro actively awarding them the 06 n 10 hart.

Crosby 51 goals 109 points. Hart winner 29 goals 112 points
Jagr 54 goals 123 points. Hart winner 29 goals 125 points

While we are at let's retroactively award McDavid the 21 Hart

McDavid 44 goals 123 points, Hart winner 60 goals 106 points

 

[GreeningOil]

Everyone here is way over analyzing empty net points. Last year we all thought it would be a tight race and most leaned towards Kuch. MacKinnon won in dominating fashion and his multiple 30+ point 19 game point streaks had a lot to do with it.

He had Makar (90) and Rantanen (104) last season too. If anything, losing Rantanen this season should give MacKinnon more votes.

Leon obviously has McDavid "only" which IMO will always be held against him, but Matthews won the Hart with 60-46 being 17 points behind McDavid. That year IMO McDavid/Leon cancelled each other out and Matthews won pretty convincingly.

Going off that all, I think Kuch may sneak away with it this year. Its pretty balanced after him for Tampa and obviously he is the common denominator.

So my vote today goes for MacKinnon, then Kuch, then Makar.

I really think the 60-60 argument for Leon is big, but same can be said for Makar if hits 30-70, or even 35-70 which is very possible. 100 points for a dman is massive

60-60 is huge for Drai. The narrative of having 2 Hart candidates hurting both is silly.

However, I would agree that Kucherov would fit that bill a bit better.

However, Drai outplaying McDavid so significantly might be a narrative used in the media.

 

[GreeningOil]

All the players must love him too since he won the Ted Lindsay too. In what way is Draisaitl the better player? He's being outscored by MacKinnon playing with the best player in the league on supposedly the favorites to win the cup.

It's just absolutely hilarious watching you do mental gymnastics to discount MacKinnon. If you believe Kucherov was the best player last year you should believe MacKinnon is the best player this season because all the knocks about MacKinnon this year were said about Kucherov last year, empty net merchants etc.

So you believe Kucherov was the best player last year and Draisaitl is the best player this year? Explain this to me then because MacKinnon was essentially Kucherov was las year
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View attachment 992191

I would suggest that Drai is a far better goal scorer this season. Which has swayed the vote as recently as Matthew’s Hart year.

 

[daver]

8 more points in 6 more games played*, full stop, don't forget the details, even when they are inconvenient for your argument

You seem to forget that playing in games and putting up points is 100% more valuable than the alternative.

 

[FiveFourteenSixOne]

I would suggest that Drai is a far better goal scorer this season. Which has swayed the vote as recently as Matthew’s Hart year.

Unfortunately, that's just the excuse that Toronto media used to justify their ridiculous snub of McDavid who was undoubtedly the best player that year. Everybody not living in the TO bubble could see the narrative being spun from a million miles away. Make no mistake, if you switched both guy's stat lines, they still would have argued in favor of 34 because "more points means more offense generated!".

 

[OilersFanatics505]

That was actually the Avs vs. Lightning. If you're going to troll, at least get your facst straight

That’s not the Stanley cup in the middle