He has missed 6 games and will miss tonight and Saturday mostly likely and given the years some other players are having that will knock quinn out of the Hart race.
Is Leon Draisaitl Gonna Break Nathan MacKinnon's Hart?
- Thread starter Danarqhy
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AvsGuy
Hired the wrong DJ again
Have the stats nerds found anything stupid that would attach a merchant title to Drai?
PP, ENG, etc etc
If not, this could be the first Hart winner in a while without a mercantile stat.
PP, ENG, etc etc
If not, this could be the first Hart winner in a while without a mercantile stat.
hangman005
Have I told you I miss Logan Thompson
Oilers Goal Merchant.... bum hasn't scored at all for the other teams.
When was that looking to be the case. He had been leading for a long time, but it was only by a few points and others had games in hand. He has always looked to have as good of shot at it than anyone else, but he certainly was never looking to be running away with it.
Does anyone really think Kucherov is the Hart favourite? He'll deserve votes for sure, but at this point I doubt many would be picking his name with their 1st place votes.....25-30 games left though.
benfranklin
Registered User
- Jun 29, 2024
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A+ title, but I still dont think you can give Leon the Hart because of McDavid. Same with MacKinnon and Makar, in addition to the Avs playing like crap compared to their potential. They feel like the Art Ross race, but any of Kuch, Marner, KK, Connor, Pasta, Eichel, or even Helly are more deserving for the Hart than Leon, Mac, Makar, or McDavid.
Czechboy
Náš f*cken barák!
- Apr 15, 2018
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So McD can't win it because he has Drai.
Drai can't win it because he has McD?
Am I understanding this correctly?
Czechboy
Náš f*cken barák!
- Apr 15, 2018
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I agree (and I like Hughes a lot) but that thread would go crazy on your statement above.lol
benfranklin
Registered User
- Jun 29, 2024
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If they're close to each other production wise, yes that is the premise. Then its simply a glorified art ross.
Obviously good players need fellow good players to win it and every year wont be 17-18 Hall vs MacKinnon.
But yes, it would be nice if the Hart was a player who truly was the MVP and not simply the higher of two really good players (McDavid/Drais). If McDavid had those 6 games back, he'd be tied or leading the scoring race right now. Thats a pure coin flip and not a true unquestionable MVP.
If either was gone, then the Oilers would likely be a bubble playoff team, so theyre both extremely valuable, but not Hart level IMO.
Romang67
BitterSwede
Does Makar also make it impossible for MacKinnon to win the Hart? Should we just give it to Hellebuyck and be done with it?
McDavid and Drai were 1 and 2 in scoring in 2023 and McD cleaned up every award.
benfranklin
Registered User
- Jun 29, 2024
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He was 25 points ahead of Drais with 2 more games played and 40 ahead of Kuch.
I dont see that happening this season, but yes that spread is the example of where one teammate is heads and shoulders above the other teammate.
benfranklin
Registered User
- Jun 29, 2024
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This season specifically, if Nate wins the Art Ross, I would argue yes. Makar IMO is more or at the very least as equally valuable as MacKinnon. So by that logic, neither deserve the Hart.
The Avs have been a pile of meh this season and need to go Ham to win their division for either to win the Hart IMO. I can see them doing damage in the playoffs and whoever lands them in round 1 is not going to be happy.
EchoesoftheEighties
HF Oil's Unofficial Shitposter
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I wouldn’t say they were that close in production though, with a 25 point gap. But this year is a similar gap to Drai’s ‘20 win, but with a bigger goal advantage and McDavid behind more players. The poster might not agree, but the precedent is there for Draisaitl to win despite McDavid being on the team.
Focusing on the second best player on the team has always been a poor way to judge value anyway when there’s 20 other players on a team.
Czechboy
Náš f*cken barák!
- Apr 15, 2018
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I read statements like this a lot on HF.
The old you wouldn't be as good if your best player wasn't on the team. That is true for every single team in hockey at every single level. Little Billy Hattrick gets a flu and his house league team isn't as good either.
I always wonder though... why we just remove 10 to 14 million dollar players and never use that money to bolster the team? Eg. you remove McD who makes 12 or so. Cap is 82 or so. So I agree if the Oilers only had 70 million in players and no McD that they'd be a bubble team or maybe a good AHL team. I just don't get why we can't have out best players or why we can't use the cap to get other good players?
I'll add though to the bubble argument
Remove Marner and Leafs are a bubble team
Remove Hughes and Nucks are a bubble team (oh wait...)
Remove Makar and Avs are a bubble team
Why are we removing players? Isn't the whole point to get as strong a roster as possible? Get the best players and keep them?
Fourier
Registered User
That is correct. I mean who do guys like Kucherov or Marner have on their teams? I can't name a single additional player on either team.
Yea, you need to be the clear best player in the league like Malkin in ‘12 to win while missing games. His case is mostly based on how much he improves his team when he’s on the ice, so missing games probably hurts him more, and he was already a long shot with the team on the bubble and being a defenseman.
It's pretty hard to win the Hart these days with 8 missed games.
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
Really too bad that Leon has taken the foot off the gas pedal after signing that huge contract.
And those arguments would be very weak right?
I mean he scored at a higher rate without McDavid and is a clutch producer without the "easy points" and that can and will make a difference for some voters and rightly so.
- Oct 26, 2019
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This has been discussed ad nauseam in other threads but by how people vote for the Hart Draisaitl holds a real lead and has held that lead for a while.
Goals are perceived to be significantly more valuable than overall production, and no one is catching him. He won't need the Art Ross to win the Hart, just like Matthews didn't.
That said, if they voted for the Hart based on what the Hart says it's for (most valuable player to their team), then the context of who else is on that team matters. The Oilers have someone else who produces at the same level in points per game and is a better player in the same position. The gap between Drai and McD (if there even is one for Draisaitl) is much smaller than any other player in the competition.
Hughes and Hellebuyck absolutely matter more for their teams than Draisaitl does for the Oilers. But again, the argument of who should win the Hart is a different one from who will win the Hart. If things continue similarly I think Draisaitl wins it comfortably.
The Hart should be rephrased as "the forwards who had the best and most notable season". Notable including production, storylines, hype, media attention etc. Thats how it's voted on and has been for a long time.
Goals are perceived to be significantly more valuable than overall production, and no one is catching him. He won't need the Art Ross to win the Hart, just like Matthews didn't.
That said, if they voted for the Hart based on what the Hart says it's for (most valuable player to their team), then the context of who else is on that team matters. The Oilers have someone else who produces at the same level in points per game and is a better player in the same position. The gap between Drai and McD (if there even is one for Draisaitl) is much smaller than any other player in the competition.
Hughes and Hellebuyck absolutely matter more for their teams than Draisaitl does for the Oilers. But again, the argument of who should win the Hart is a different one from who will win the Hart. If things continue similarly I think Draisaitl wins it comfortably.
The Hart should be rephrased as "the forwards who had the best and most notable season". Notable including production, storylines, hype, media attention etc. Thats how it's voted on and has been for a long time.
nightonthesun
Registered User
- you can’t have other good players on your team
- you’re not allowed to score on the power play
- or on empty nets
- good guys only, no villains
- no injuries allowed
- recency bias is fine; end of the season >>>
What else am I missing here? Just trying to make an informed decision.
- you’re not allowed to score on the power play
- or on empty nets
- good guys only, no villains
- no injuries allowed
- recency bias is fine; end of the season >>>
What else am I missing here? Just trying to make an informed decision.
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