Is Kucherov getting slighted for awards?

[Tasty Biscuits]

Yeah. Def shoulda won the Hart.

 

[wetcoast]

Kuch was better tho.

Look below as these aren't objective but very subjective.

Human flaw is we can be biased.

Sure and ironic that you prove this with your next point.

I'd say this was country driven.

Sure that's why Bread got 3 first place votes right?

 

[Rschmitz]

Okay, you've listed two different criteria from two different seasons. Yet you neglect to mention that:

2020-2021 McDavid won it despite Draisaitl being 2nd in league scoring.

2021-2022 Matthews won it while having 17 less points than McDavid, but had the most goals.

Last year McDavid won the Hart when Draisaitl was (once again) 2nd in league scoring.


So again, what criteria has been thrown out the window in this case?

You're conflating arguments.

20/21 McDavid had a 21 point lead on second place.

21/22 Matthews beat McDavid because of a split vote for Draisaitl

Kucherov had the highest point total this year and highest point share for his team.

 

[Canadian Game]

The players are probably just as biased as the media. Most NHLers are Canadian.

The players literally voted for Kucherov in 2019, as he has a Ted Lindsay. Biased Canadians….

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The players literally voted for Kucherov in 2019, as he has a Ted Lindsay. Biased Canadians….

I mean being biased doesn't mean you'll vote for the Canadian 100% of the time but when it's close enough it's a significant tiebreaker.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Based off his ASG performance I guess he doesn't care unless it matters. I think he's accomplished a lot too. But yeah, should've won the Hart.

 

[NotCommitted]

144 vs 140 points and MacKinnon had 7 more goals, MacKinnon was ahead in 5v5 scoring with 36 vs 21 goals, 79 vs 67 points. Very superficial analysis but I don't see signs of robbery here. Plenty of people had Kuch 1st but even more had MacKinnon ahead of him. So it goes.

 

[Canadian Game]

I mean being biased doesn't mean you'll vote for the Canadian 100% of the time but when it's close enough it's a significant tiebreaker.

So if the winner is a Canadian it’s probably biased, but if the winner isn’t Canadian, it’s still biased the other times but just not this time?

From 2006 to 2012 (except 2007 - Crosby) all of the winners were European (Jagr, Ovechkin, Malkin). Were the Canadians trying to throw off the scent all those years? Since then Kane, Kucherov, Draisaitl, and Matthews have won as well.

 

[The Panther]

I'm kind of surprised, as I thought Kucherov would get it with his late-season scoring push. But, in this case, I think the voters actually got it right (they got it wrong in 2018 when MacKinnon didn't win then).

They're basically equal, and the Hart could have gone to either guy. I do think MacKinnon was slightly better, though:

There's nothing wrong with getting empty-net points, of course, but Kucherov had A LOT this season. In fact, he had more than any player in history (was it 14?), So, you'd think, such a player must have played on a really top team with all sorts of leads late in the third-period while they beating up the competition. But... Tampa wasn't a great team. They were 13th overall. They were good, not great. So, it's odd that a player on such a club would have so many EN points. Like, in how many games exactly did Tampa even face an empty net? 14? It seems like every single time they had an empty-net, Kucherov was getting that point.

So, fair play, those are good points. But how many EN points did MacKinnon have? (I don't know.) If you take away the EN points from each, it's likely that the tiny difference in point production is now negligible, or even in MacKinnon's favor. And in ES points, they're basically exactly even.

So, I don't think there's any offensive advantage to Kucherov.

In terms of who tilted the ice more, I think you have go with MacKinnon. Obviously, Colorado was the better team overall and you'd expect better ES results from their players, but even so MacKinnon's +35 was easily the best on his team (and way better than Kucherov, but that's team contextual).

So, I'm okay with it. I mean, if you take the Hart definition literally, Kucherov probably was "more valuable to his team", but by that literal definition, then the real Hart winner was probably a good player on a really bad, non-playoff team (i.e., nobody takes it completely literally -- nor should they).

So, I'm okay with it.

(And by the way, I don't like MacKinnon much, and I quite like Kucherov.)

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Why are people acting like kuch was robbed. He had 144 points n nate had 140 along with a lot more goals.

 

[ThunderRoad]

Why are people acting like kuch was robbed. He had 144 points n nate had 140 along with a lot more goals.

What's a lot? The 7 more he had? Kucherov had 11 more assists. They both had amazing seasons. There's no way the vote count shouldn't have been closer though except the popularity angle or finally being someone's 'turn' instead of just based on the season.

I mean Kucherov became only the 3rd player in NHL history to score 40+ goals and 100 assists in a season, besides Gretkzy and Lemieux - that's pretty awesome and he didn’t just stumble onto that feat. And he did it in the lesser 'winger' position where the other two were centers, as is Mackinnon.

So yeah, it should have been close between the two, just think the edge should have gone to Kucherov seeing as what he had to overcome to get there this season with the point totals.

And the +/- thing really has nothing to do with performance (comparing Kucherov to Mackinnon) when there was the disastrous new defensive structure employed by Tampa this past season that everyone on the team struggled with - Stamkos ended up -21 for the season and Point -16, which neither one of them are terrible defensively usually- just highlights the struggles with the new system.

 

[SomeDude]

The good news is he can be on LTIR while his broken heart is mending.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Waiting for Lightning fans to blame Kucherov not winning on Jeannot, as many blame Jeannot for everything else that is wrong with their team.

The Nightmare lives.

 

[x Tame Impala]

This thread is just sour grapes and being a sore loser. No need to slight MacKinnon or Hedman, they deserved their awards. Most points =/= automatic Hart/Smythe win.

Get over it or don’t, but there’s no conspiracy

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

Nah Mackinnon was just better this year

 

[SnowblindNYR]

So if the winner is a Canadian it’s probably biased, but if the winner isn’t Canadian, it’s still biased the other times but just not this time?

From 2006 to 2012 (except 2007 - Crosby) all of the winners were European (Jagr, Ovechkin, Malkin). Were the Canadians trying to throw off the scent all those years? Since then Kane, Kucherov, Draisaitl, and Matthews have won as well.

Is your world completely black and white? I suppose Tanner Glass could have won it just so that a Canadian could win. Seems like you think that bias means any Canadian would win every year. I mean it's absurd. If the #1 guy has 115 points and is Russian and the number two guy has 90, I'm pretty sure there's going to be calls for impropriety if the 90 point guy wins it unless the 115 guy was on a last place team or something. The fact that you don't understand there are nuance and gray areas and are acting like bias means 100% Canadians 100% of the time is absurd. I can't tell if you're legit having a difficult time understanding or are just trying to win an argument on the internet. Either way it's weak.

 

[Hoochi Papa]

He can win LTIR cheaters' Robidas Island Award.

 

[treple13]

I would have voted MacKinnon, and also would have voted MacKinnon if both players had Hart Trophies already. MacKinnon was the (slightly) better player on the year. Offensive stats were basically a wash (Kuch more points, Mack more goals), but most advanced stats had MacKinnon as the better defensive player which is the difference.

 

[Maplebeasts]

He is an offensive winger who was up against centers that were about as productive as he was.

 

[JoeSakic13]

Some of the posters in this topic must go through a lot of aluminum foil. Hope they buy in bulk.

 

[Monsieur Miz]

It's hard to argue against MacKinnon. Dude was playing with Drouin ffs!

 

[ozzie]

Mario's 199 points laughs at this thread, Imagine how he felt. Not saying Gretzky didn't deseve it for his Kings impact. But 1989 is actually a valid debate.

No one was robbed this year. Even the players agree.

 

[wetcoast]

I mean being biased doesn't mean you'll vote for the Canadian 100% of the time but when it's close enough it's a significant tiebreaker.

So it basically is only there when perceived by certain fans who obviously are never ever biased gotchya.

 

[frontsfan67]

Mackinnon is the 10th player ever to get 140+ points AND 50+ goals in a season. Joins a pretty nice group of players there so I can understand why they’d give it to him for that.

However kucherov had more than a 50 point gap between him and point (who is an allstar forward) and lead the league in scoring. If I had to vote I’d vote kuch but I can see how some would like Mackinnon.

 

[CashMash]

I think the media made the right decision, but it's essentially a wash. It's by no means a robbery in my opinion. Yes, the Avs are better constructed, but MacKinnon contributed disproportionately even when taking that into account.

This thread is just sour grapes and being a sore loser. No need to slight MacKinnon or Hedman, they deserved their awards. Most points =/= automatic Hart/Smythe win.

Get over it or don’t, but there’s no conspiracy

Sour grapes is the "I didn't want it anyway" response when you don't get something you actually wanted.