Is king Karl defying makars premature generational label?

[NYR94]

 

[triggrman]

So it's a fluke and he's lucky to finish top 4, but when he finishes top 10 that's not a fluke? I don't understand your logic here.

I don't know how to help you understand.

Top 10 wasn't fluky, top 4 was and I told you why.

 

[tfwnogf]

I don't know how to help you understand.

Top 10 wasn't fluky, top 4 was and I told you why.

Yeah I mean, I get that you think that's sound logic, but it isn't Really quite strange to dismiss a dude's season like that.

 

[Mickey Marner]

18 great games doesn't offset 158 poor games.

 

[triggrman]

Yeah I mean, I get that you think that's sound logic, but it isn't Really quite strange to dismiss a dude's season like that.

I don't mean to dismiss his talents, he was point per game that season, huge accomplishment. That was probably the last season we had that point per game would be the top 4 though, wasn't it? I think there's only been 2 seasons in the last 20 where that's "top 4".

 

[tfwnogf]

I don't mean to dismiss his talents, he was point per game that season, huge accomplishment. That was probably the last season we had that point per game would be the top 4 though, wasn't it? I think there's only been 2 seasons in the last 20 where that's "top 4".

Exactly, which to me at least, makes it even more impressive he was able to finish PPG in such a low scoring environment. Injuries to top players had a part in it, but he was only 7 points away from 2nd place. Unlikely to be repeated. as you said, but still an amazing feat imo.

 

[authentic]

I don't mean to dismiss his talents, he was point per game that season, huge accomplishment. That was probably the last season we had that point per game would be the top 4 though, wasn't it? I think there's only been 2 seasons in the last 20 where that's "top 4".

Makar was 27th in points per game last season and Karlsson was 7th in 2015-16. 36 year old Ovechkin had a higher points per game than Makar last season and Karlsson had a higher points per game than 30 year old Ovechkin and also came closer to a 28 year old Crosby in points per game than Makar came to 34 year old Crosby. That tells me that means he had the better offensive season when you really look at it.

 

[triggrman]

Makar was 27th in points per game last season and Karlsson was 7th in 2015-16. 36 year old Ovechkin had a higher points per game than Makar last season and Karlsson had a higher points per game than Ovechkin and also came closer to a 29 year old Crosby in points per game than Makar came to 34 year old Crosby. That tells me that means he had the better offensive season when you really look at it.

Where did I say differently?

 

[Golden_Jet]

He's got 2 norris seasons, one with 78 points (10th highest in scoring) and one with 82 (4th highest in scoring). Which one is the "fluke" season?

Yep , if I recall, he didn’t win the Norris, the year he was tied for third in scoring, Doughty won that year with about 50 points. Didn’t make sense, when that was the highest a defenseman finished in the scoring race, well, in a long time I assume.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Where did I say differently?

In fairness, that was a fluke and Karlsson will never repeat it again.

Saying it was fluke, is not sound logic.

 

[AvalancheRy]

Seem to remember the same stuff after the playoffs this past summer. Many people yelled "small sample size!!!", Colorado fans yelled "Best since ORR!"

The only people I saw comparing Makar to Orr were on the TNT analyst desk and included the likes of Gretzky. I don't think you could find many (if any) Avs fans saying he's Orr or would have that kind of legendary career.

Also, since when is two seasons of good hockey comparable to 18 games or whatever?

This irrational Makar hate is hilarious and making people not think clearly.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The only people I saw comparing Makar to Orr were on the TNT analyst desk and included the likes of Gretzky. I don't think you could find many (if any) Avs fans saying he's Orr or would have that kind of legendary career.

Also, since when is two seasons of good hockey comparable to 18 games or whatever?

This irrational Makar hate is hilarious and making people not think clearly.

Where’s the hate, because EK65 is getting some props.

 

[Lolonegoal]

Man, I didn't know 32 was mid 30s.

 

[Lolonegoal]

18 great games doesn't offset 158 poor games.

Honest question: when did he have 158 poor games?

Seems like you're referring to his previous 3 years in which he averaged a 15 goal, 50 point season pace.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

I would consider them different generations of players, even if they're contemporaries right now.

 

[Puck Dogg]

Not again with the generational.

 

[TheBeard]

Not again with the generational.

Is Rasmus Dahlin generational?

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Honest question: when did he have 158 poor games?

Seems like you're referring to his previous 3 years in which he averaged a 15 goal, 50 point season pace.

Which is fine, but then again Torey Krug also averaged 57 pts over 82 his last 3 years.

The Sharks aren’t paying EK 11.5 to be their Krug. Different standards for players.

 

[bobbyking]

he is on one end . but defensively hell have to be elite as well

 

[avsfan9]

Which is fine, but then again Torey Krug also averaged 57 pts over 82 his last 3 years.

The Sharks aren’t paying EK 11.5 to be their Krug. Different standards for players.

Krug is generational?

 

[Lolonegoal]

Which is fine, but then again Torey Krug also averaged 57 pts over 82 his last 3 years.

The Sharks aren’t paying EK 11.5 to be their Krug. Different standards for players.

Ugggghh, this argument is so tiresome.

We are NOT the GMs of teams. We are NOT the owners of teams. We don't sign a player's pay cheque.

How good a player is should have absolutely nothing to do with his contract. His value to the team, sure? But we're not playing EA sports here. If we're talking about skill level, it doesn't make a difference what they take home.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Ugggghh, this argument is so tiresome.

We are NOT the GMs of teams. We are NOT the owners of teams. We don't sign a player's pay cheque.

How good a player is should have absolutely nothing to do with his contract. His value to the team, sure? But we're not playing EA sports here. If we're talking about skill level, it doesn't make a difference what they take home.

I mean the money isn't the point like you said.

50 points these days just isn't that fantastic for an offensive dman playing 23 minutes a night & #1 PP, especially when combined with some really bad mistakes at bad times that lead the puck going in your own net.

This thread is about EK's great start, and the guy you quoted made the point that he's been underwhelming relative to expectations for quite a while, so it seems kinda pointless to celebrate a good start.

If Matthews scores 25 goals and 60 pts 3 years in a row, he's technically still a good player, but at the same time the Leafs become mediocre and people lose their shit. Nobody is going to try and find positives in the technicality that he's still a good player.

Let's see EK put together a full season and then talk about his resurgence.

 

[Lolonegoal]

I mean the money isn't the point like you said.

50 points these days just isn't that fantastic for an offensive dman playing 23 minutes a night & #1 PP, especially when combined with some really bad mistakes at bad times that lead the puck going in your own net.

This thread is about EK's great start, and the guy you quoted made the point that he's been underwhelming relative to expectations for quite a while, so it seems kinda pointless to celebrate a good start.

If Matthews scores 25 goals and 60 pts 3 years in a row, he's technically still a good player, but at the same time the Leafs become mediocre and people lose their shit. Nobody is going to try and find positives in the technicality that he's still a good player.

Let's see EK put together a full season and then talk about his resurgence.

Not an apt comparison.

50 pts as a defenseman will get you into the top 20 in scoring in any season in history. Before 4 years ago it would get you in the top 10.

The 20th highest forward in scoring last year got 85 points, and 33 goals. So that's quite the exaggeration. 25 goals would put you 82nd in the league, and 60 points would be you 76th. And that's just amongst forwards.

Also, players DO regularly flucuate that many points over multiple seasons/periods. For example of top scorers season by season point totals:

Patrick Kane: 106, 89, 76, 110, 84, 66, 92
Steven Stamkos: 97, 57*, 40*, 72, 64, 20*, 86, 94
Oveckin: 109, 85, 65, 56*, 79, 81, 71, 69, 87, 89
Crosby: 104, 84, 85, 89, 89, 100

So, by the same logic and Crosby had 4 garbage seasons from 2014 to 2018

 

[Hierso]

Not again with the generational.

At least people aren't handing out the label like candy when it comes to any defenseman, people still argue over if someone like Lidstrom was a generational talent and he's pretty much the gold standard for a modern defenseman.

Any young center that starts of good will earn his mandatory "Is player X a generational talent?" within 10 games or so.

 

[lionsDen]

Mark on great start to the year makar is still generational