Speculation: Is Jake Gardiner in Martin Marincin's way?

[Nithoniniel]

Are zone starts controlled by a player, is it not controlled by the coach?

If you want to use zone starts to judge how a coach likes to deploy his players then that's fine. Like 90% of the league, Gardiner is used pretty evenly. So not exactly very exciting stuff.

If you want to use zone starts as a reflection on the numbers he puts up however, the articles and the quote should steer you right.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

If you want to use zone starts to judge how a coach likes to deploy his players then that's fine. Like 90% of the league, Gardiner is used pretty evenly. So not exactly very exciting stuff.

If you want to use zone starts as a reflection on the numbers he puts up however, the articles and the quote should steer you right.

agree or disagree with the below?

Zone Starts is a usage metric that gives an indication to how the player is being utilized by their team

How Babcock uses Gardiner trumps all, this is why you are fighting a lost cause.

 

[Nithoniniel]

agree or disagree with the below?

Zone Starts is a usage metric that gives an indication to how the player is being utilized by their team

That was pretty much what I said, so yes.

That doesn't mean that you use the metrics arbitrarily, like saying that if you start 52% of all non-neutral zone starts in the offensive zone, you are sheltered.

this is why you are fighting a lost cause.

No argument that it's a lost cause. Some people are comfortably with willful ignorance, after all.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

That was pretty much what I said, so yes.

That doesn't mean that you use the metrics arbitrarily, like saying that if you start 52% of all non-neutral zone starts in the offensive zone, you are sheltered.

2015-16 offensive zone starts at even strength:

• Gardiner - 52% << definatly not sheltered
• Dion - 53.3%
• Polak - 47.4%
• Reilly - 47.1%
• Hunwick - 42.5%

This board thinks Hunwick is terrible too lol, The guy plays the hardest minutes on the 30th placed team and makes the least amount of money! lol

 

[Menzinger]

2015-16 offensive zone starts at even strength:

• Gardiner - 52% << definatly not sheltered
• Dion - 53.3%
• Polak - 47.4%
• Reilly - 47.1%
• Hunwick - 42.5%

This board thinks Hunwick is terrible too lol, The guy plays the hardest minutes on the 30th placed team and makes the least amount of money! lol

Playing hard minutes in of itself isn't all that telling. Hunwick hasn't performed well, at all.

Player usage matters but only when paired with other stats. Otherwise all it measures is participation

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Playing hard minutes in of itself isn't all that telling. Hunwick hasn't performed well, at all.

Player usage matters but only when paired with other stats. Otherwise all it measures is participation

ok ... Explain how Hunwick hasn't performed well, at all? Coach loves him, he passed my eye test, analytics like him ...

 

[moon111]

ok ... Explain how Hunwick hasn't performed well, at all? Coach loves him, he passed my eye test, analytics like him ...

Goals, Assists, Points are the only true measure of any player.

 

[MastuhNinks]

How is this thread still on the first page two weeks later?

 

[Mr Hockey*]

How is this thread still on the first page two weeks later?

Basically, some are trying to prove Babcock is not a good judge of talent and misuses his players. Its not working out too well for some, but they keep trying

 

[Beaninfritz]

How is this thread still on the first page two weeks later?

Welcome to summer.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Saw an interesting post by an ambitious fellow on Reddit earlier today. It looked at a number of things for D-men, including their relative CF% in high scoring areas. Gardiner ranked #22 in the league in this regard, and Rielly showed why there's a case for him to be better than his recent possession metrics suggest.

Considering that 75% of all goals at even strength is scored in that area, it might be a better indicator than regular possession metrics. I haven't read enough material on the metrics used to swear on it though, so I'd suggest treating it as curiosa for now.

 

[willyjones]

Gardiner in the way of marincin lmao. Before marincin was slotted with Rielly he looked like aki berg out there. Marincin at best is a 6 or 7 at best. Analytics aside any who watched a large amount of leafs games would half to agree he was terrible before playing with Rielly

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Gardiner in the way of marincin lmao. Before marincin was slotted with Rielly he looked like aki berg out there. Marincin at best is a 6 or 7 at best. Analytics aside any who watched a large amount of leafs games would halfto agree he was terrible before playing with Rielly

Were you part of that large group of Leaf fans that hated Hal Gill when he was here?

Don't answer that.

I don't 1/2 to agree with you. 1/2ing ripped Marincin and calling him Aki Berg at the beginning of the season is a have truth.

 

[X66]

Gardiner in the way of marincin lmao. Before marincin was slotted with Rielly he looked like aki berg out there. Marincin at best is a 6 or 7 at best. Analytics aside any who watched a large amount of leafs games would half to agree he was terrible before playing with Rielly

Marincin played great last year when given more responsibility.

Polak brought Marincin down, just like Hunwick brought Rielly down.

 

[ACC1224]

Gardiner in the way of marincin lmao. Before marincin was slotted with Rielly he looked like aki berg out there. Marincin at best is a 6 or 7 at best. Analytics aside any who watched a large amount of leafs games would half to agree he was terrible before playing with Rielly

There was nothing wrong with Berg other than some unrealistic expectations.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Marincin played great last year when given more responsibility.

Polak brought Marincin down, just like Hunwick brought Rielly down.

Polak is a pretty good leader on the ice in the defensive zone! Pollak is also pretty impressive if you watch him play live!

Hunwick hurt Rielly, Polak hurt Marincin, etc ....

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Saw an interesting post by an ambitious fellow on Reddit earlier today. It looked at a number of things for D-men, including their relative CF% in high scoring areas. Gardiner ranked #22 in the league in this regard, and Rielly showed why there's a case for him to be better than his recent possession metrics suggest.

Considering that 75% of all goals at even strength is scored in that area, it might be a better indicator than regular possession metrics. I haven't read enough material on the metrics used to swear on it though, so I'd suggest treating it as curiosa for now.

I would bet that the leafs analytics department has looked into every possible stat a hockey mind can think of ...

 

[egd27]

2015-16 offensive zone starts at even strength:

• Gardiner - 52% << definatly not sheltered
• Dion - 53.3%
• Polak - 47.4%
• Reilly - 47.1%
• Hunwick - 42.5%

This board thinks Hunwick is terrible too lol, The guy plays the hardest minutes on the 30th placed team and makes the least amount of money! lol

Any particular reason you omitted Marincin and his 52.8% o-zone starts?

Or did we go off topic enough that Marincin's comparable stat isn't relevant in a Gardiner/Marincin thread?

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Any particular reason you omitted Marincin and his 52.8% o-zone starts?

Or did we go off topic enough that Marincin's comparable stat isn't relevant in a Gardiner/Marincin thread?

I have not been discussing the "Gardiner in the way of Marincin" ... Marincin had high o-zone starts for the first 2/3 of the season, he was sheltered along with Corrado.

I posted earlier that Gardiner is not in his way and they are used differently and play different types of minutes.

Marincin has alot of growth in his game! Gardiner has been the identical player from his first NHL game. I remember seeing Gardiner for the first time and thinking he is going to be really good, his game has not evolved one bit since the first time seeing him. Skates well with the puck and ...

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

Nobody is in marincin ' s way. If he can outplay gardiner (unlikely) he plays more. Simple, also - Babcock logic: play the guy who is playing the best.