Actually Jagr’s best 5 and 3 seasons beat McDavid’s in regular season adjusted points. McDavid has the slight adjusted points per game edge in his 56 game season if you’re just choosing a single season peak, but then again maybe Jagr has a similar 56 games in one of his seasons. McDavid has the slight edge for playoff peak as well based on his last 3 postseasons.
Is Jagr the greatest European player of all time?
- Thread starter Phil68
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Actually Jagr’s best 5 and 3 seasons beat McDavid’s in regular season adjusted points. McDavid has the slight adjusted points per game edge in his 56 game season if you’re just choosing a single season peak, but then again maybe Jagr has a similar 56 games in one of his seasons. McDavid has the slight edge for playoff peak as well based on his last 3 postseasons.
Video Nasty
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Pablo El Perro
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I'd go Hasek then Jagr. I can see arguments for the great Russians, internationally, and Lidstrom, but I have Jagr at #2. Ovi has to be up there, but he's still playing.
Bouboumaster
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Honestly you might be right
I have Lidstrom as the 4th best defenseman ever and to me, both him and Ovechkin are top 20 players ever
Okay I understand this part but what is this slight edge for Mcdavid in the playoffs?
also McDavid has 9 seasons of 100+ adjusted points to Jag's 7 and it's likely he keeps adding to that.
Jagr never had a postseason like McDavid did last year.
Scoring was a lot lower in the playoffs when Jagr was still putting up consistently best in the league numbers. I’ll do adjustments soon but it is a lot closer than the raw numbers show.
Randyne
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I'll mark these players as 'Quote' and separate them from HOFers to find out their contribution to Jagr's total points in PIT career (where he won all his Rosses).
HOF' help = 53.2%:
Players from your 'Quote' = 19.6%:
Note. Players from your 'Quote' were separated from points which were scored/assisted by HOFers.
For example, Straka factored in 123 points but 11 points were overlapped with HOFers points, so it's only 112 left.
So 53.2% help from HOFers. That's as huge amount of help as it can be.
Learn word "pace" again.
Dude, learn word "HOFer". Mario is not the only HOFer in the world.
1995 Ross
Ron Francis and Luc Robitaille factored in 51 points out of 70, which is 72.9%
1998 Ross
Ron Francis factored in 64 points out of 102, which is 62.7%
2001 Ross
Mario Lemieux factored in 53 points out of 121, which is 43.8%
And you should know about this.
How does one fairly adjust for playoffs?
At least in the regular season you have all teams playing 82 games and against each other to some degree, in the playoffs not so much.
Really what McDavid has done the last 3 years in the playoffs is a level Jagr never got close to....period.
McDavid also isn't european but I would put Foppa, Fedorov and Kuch as better playoff performers than Jagr from Europe.
Lidstrom as well.
I think you need to go back and look at Jagr’s playoff stats. I agree though McDacid the past 3 playoffs has been better it’s just not by as much as you would think. Playoffs were simply just really low scoring in the dead puck era, even more so than the regular season.
This can be debated many ways but I personally would have Jagr and Lidstrom battling it out for "greatest" European hockey player ever. Jagr could be the hands down best ever player if he did not leave for a time to be closer to his family in 2008 and returned to the NHL in 2011 and then had a "journeyman" like career. Whereas Lidstrom played for one team (20 years) and won Stanley Cups as well as 7!!!!!!!! Norris trophies. I mean Makar is probably going to win his second this year (I believe Hughes would have won if not for injuries, but injuries are part of the game) and although a great player, he will not win 7 or come close to that as neither will Hughes. If I was a manager of a team and had to make a choice between the 2 i would personally choose Lidstrom but Jagr is a phenomenal consolation prize.
Sasha Orlov
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BagHead
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I did, and Jagr was insanely productive. Back then he had speed on top of his size and ability to control the puck. I actually didn't fully realize how big he was until he came back to the NHL from Europe as a somewhat slower player because his skating speed had always put an image in my mind a medium-sized speedster. Also, playing on a team with 6'4" Lemieux made him look "short" by comparison. Once his speed started to go away, he still controlled the puck through strength and reach, so suddenly my eyes were opened a bit more to that part of his game.
He was definitely at his best playing with Lemieux, but was also extremely good without him. That Jagr got "help" from so many Hall of Fame players is more of a testament to how he was always good enough to play with future Hall of Fame players on the top lines than it is an indictment based around his needing their help.
When Draisaitl inevitably makes it into the HHOF, are people going to argue that McDavid only looks this good because of Drai's help? That's basically what they're doing with Jagr and, say, Ron Francis.
HugeInTheShire
You may not like me but, I'm Huge in the Shire
Mario's stat line from the 1999-2000 season where Jagr won the Art Ross while playing only 63 games.
0 goals and 0 assist for 0 points. He just carried Jagr to that Art Ross.
