Is it time to change the name of the trophies awarded?
- Thread starter MichaelFarrell
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chi777
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- Feb 23, 2006
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I disagree with this whole premise.
SnipeShowJB11
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- Jul 8, 2022
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They should have a trophy for most assists IMO. They have one for goals. I am used to the names. Would not want them changed.
MichaelFarrell
Registered User
Why? I think the players rather than executives deserve the awards named after them.
Rants Mulliniks
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- Jun 22, 2008
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Most goals should be named after Matthews.
Actually first one automatically made me feel like posting George Carlin PC commentary.
Actually first one automatically made me feel like posting George Carlin PC commentary.
MichaelFarrell
Registered User
It’s not pc commentary though. Herb Carnegie, who was just honored by the NHL, wasn’t signed by Smyth because he was black. Seems odd that he has a trophy in his name.
Rants Mulliniks
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- Jun 22, 2008
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I believe you are confused as to what the commentary was (hint it has nothing to do with Carnegie or Smythe)
biturbo19
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- Jul 13, 2010
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I didn't expect to come into this thread and wholeheartedly agree with anything. But i fully endorse this post.
There really should be a "playmaker" award. It's a meaningful stat and really should be recognized, the excellence some players have in that aspect of hockey.
But as a whole, changing the names is moronic. They're established names that mean what they mean entirely independent of what the "originator" did. They stand for themselves. Nobody knows who these guys are, and nobody cares. That's the way it should be.
You don't name the award for "best director" or "best pop album" or "best tv drama" after the person who won the most of them previously. That's just asking for constant flux as history marches on. When Ovechkin takes over the all time goal-scoring lead, do we change it to the Alex Ovechkin Trophy? No...let's not do this. It's bad and dumb, and Marek is an idiot.
BenchBrawl
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- Jul 26, 2010
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Perhaps before asking for dramatic changes based on historical reasons, you should learn a bit about the history of the game. For example, Art Ross played 3 NHL games, but he played 131 games in the NHA + playoffs. The NHA is the NHL's ancestor league.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
I'm open minded on this and will respond to them individually.
Conn Smythe was an asshole on a lot of levels, but this is a weak premise for changing the name of the trophy. Presumably this complaint comes from his famous quote about wishing Herb Carnegie were white so he could be signed to a contract -- at a time when nobody else would sign Carnegie either. Smythe simply pointed to the root of the problem in such a way as to be quoted about it later. There are plenty of things to hate about this guy, but he was not some slave owner or Klan member. And he was a figure actually worthy of remembrance from a hockey standpoint. Keeping this one is perfectly fine.
Art Ross was more than "an innovator", he was one of the most influential figures in hockey history. He was also one of the best hockey players in the world before the NHL existed, and went on to coach in the NHL for 20 years. It's laughable to suggest that his NHL scoring record should be the thing we think about when we think of Art Ross. Of all the people on this list, he is probably top-3 in terms of deserving it.
This one has some merit. Norris has a trophy named after him because his money bankrolled the early NHL and his family went on to run the league from the inside out like a syndicate. He is not a figure who needs a trophy named after him. Changing it would be no major loss.
The Hart was actually named after Cecil's father, who donated it. David Hart is not even close to being a trophy-worthy name in the history of the league. Even Cecil is just a footnote. People would lose their minds because of the break with tradition, but it would be justifiable to move on from this one.
Agreed, and it should specifically be on the one awarded by the NHLPA.
No, he played in over 200 games over 9 seasons. He was the first great goalie in the league and had a tragic story. There's no reason to change this.
Which is fair enough, no reason to change this one.
That's pretty much the entire case for him. He was iconic as the first President. There have been more deserving figures, but there's nothing saying Calder doesn't deserve it.
Indeed, and he's an important figure, but Selke is a weak one. He knew the right people and GM'ed the right organization. Good guy, important to a certain point, but not someone who needs a trophy named after him.
This one is absurd and the low-hanging fruit if we're going to change something. Naming the trophy after him was basically a retirement gift from his golfing buddies. There is zero reason to name a trophy after an otherwise unremarkable team president.
Agreed.
Based on the above, I would suggest the following:
James Norris -> Bobby Orr (and do it before he dies, damn it)
Hart Memorial -> Wayne Gretzky
Frank Selke -> Gordie Howe
William Jennings -> Simply decommission it and leave it blank for future use.
Conn Smythe was an asshole on a lot of levels, but this is a weak premise for changing the name of the trophy. Presumably this complaint comes from his famous quote about wishing Herb Carnegie were white so he could be signed to a contract -- at a time when nobody else would sign Carnegie either. Smythe simply pointed to the root of the problem in such a way as to be quoted about it later. There are plenty of things to hate about this guy, but he was not some slave owner or Klan member. And he was a figure actually worthy of remembrance from a hockey standpoint. Keeping this one is perfectly fine.
Art Ross was more than "an innovator", he was one of the most influential figures in hockey history. He was also one of the best hockey players in the world before the NHL existed, and went on to coach in the NHL for 20 years. It's laughable to suggest that his NHL scoring record should be the thing we think about when we think of Art Ross. Of all the people on this list, he is probably top-3 in terms of deserving it.
This one has some merit. Norris has a trophy named after him because his money bankrolled the early NHL and his family went on to run the league from the inside out like a syndicate. He is not a figure who needs a trophy named after him. Changing it would be no major loss.
The Hart was actually named after Cecil's father, who donated it. David Hart is not even close to being a trophy-worthy name in the history of the league. Even Cecil is just a footnote. People would lose their minds because of the break with tradition, but it would be justifiable to move on from this one.
Agreed, and it should specifically be on the one awarded by the NHLPA.
No, he played in over 200 games over 9 seasons. He was the first great goalie in the league and had a tragic story. There's no reason to change this.
Which is fair enough, no reason to change this one.
That's pretty much the entire case for him. He was iconic as the first President. There have been more deserving figures, but there's nothing saying Calder doesn't deserve it.
Indeed, and he's an important figure, but Selke is a weak one. He knew the right people and GM'ed the right organization. Good guy, important to a certain point, but not someone who needs a trophy named after him.
This one is absurd and the low-hanging fruit if we're going to change something. Naming the trophy after him was basically a retirement gift from his golfing buddies. There is zero reason to name a trophy after an otherwise unremarkable team president.
Agreed.
Based on the above, I would suggest the following:
James Norris -> Bobby Orr (and do it before he dies, damn it)
Hart Memorial -> Wayne Gretzky
Frank Selke -> Gordie Howe
William Jennings -> Simply decommission it and leave it blank for future use.
chi777
Registered User
- Feb 23, 2006
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I don't think that simply being dismissive of the contribution of ownership at the onset of the league is very considerate. I get renaming the ones after execs. I don't mind changing those. But owners who help create the leage and keep it alive through 2 world wars and the Spanish Flu deserve credit too.
The only two I'd want to rename are the Selke to teh Gainey and the Jennings to the Hall. Gainey is reason why they cooked up the concept of the Selke and I just think Glen Hall needs more recognition for how great of a player he was.
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
I don't care. Those names have been around for a long time, and are kind of part of what makes the NHL unique because if you look at other leagues, it's mostly just generic descriptive names like "Defensive Player of the Year" which is lame. It's quirky, it's unusual, it's tradition.
Honestly, I wish there was still a Prince of Wales conference and trophy even though as far as I know the Prince of Wales has not played a single NHL game though I guess maybe Prince George could be introduced to hockey at some point.
This would be like some guy going "Uh let's rename the Heisman Trophy to Tim Tebow Trophy".
Honestly, I wish there was still a Prince of Wales conference and trophy even though as far as I know the Prince of Wales has not played a single NHL game though I guess maybe Prince George could be introduced to hockey at some point.
This would be like some guy going "Uh let's rename the Heisman Trophy to Tim Tebow Trophy".
miscs75
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- Jul 2, 2014
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Change the goal scoring trophy to the Mike Bossy award? Highest GPG average in NHL history.
jigglysquishy
Registered User
Downgrading Vezina to "only played 88 games" (which isn't even correct) is one of the most astoundingly ignorant comments made about hockey history.
Vezina is arguably the greatest goalie from the first 70 years of hockey.
I hate this suggestion to my very core.
Vezina is arguably the greatest goalie from the first 70 years of hockey.
I hate this suggestion to my very core.
PullHard
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Aladyyn
they praying for the death of a rockstar
Might as well change the name of the Stanley Cup while you're at it. Or don't, because that's obviously stupid as hell. I can get behind the Jennings but honestly think that "award" is completely superfluous and unneeded anyways.
SomeDude
Registered User
Only trophy needing changing is the Mark Messier stroking his ego award. We can just all agree to stop doing that and pretend it never happened…..just like Messier does with his Vancouver stint.
They should sell the name of the trophy every year to the highest bidder for a sponsorship. Imagine the prestigious “Arby’s award for guy who scored the most points. He has the meats.”
They should sell the name of the trophy every year to the highest bidder for a sponsorship. Imagine the prestigious “Arby’s award for guy who scored the most points. He has the meats.”
Conn Smyth: ?????
Art Ross: Mario Lemiux Award
Hart: Wayne Gretzky Award
Frank Selke: ??????
Calder: Cale Makar Award lol
Vezina: Patrick Roy Award
Jennings: ????
Norris: Bobby Orr Award
Art Ross: Mario Lemiux Award
Hart: Wayne Gretzky Award
Frank Selke: ??????
Calder: Cale Makar Award lol
Vezina: Patrick Roy Award
Jennings: ????
Norris: Bobby Orr Award
biturbo19
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- Jul 13, 2010
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What's wrong with real change? Nothing.
Like i said, i'm very open and receptive to the sort of change that would bring in a brand new "Playmaker" award for Most Assists.
Renaming Trophies isn't real change though. It'd be the same trophy for the same thing. People need to understand that renaming things isn't a meaningful, progressive change. It's just...naming it something different. Instability in the naming of a trophy just devalues it as a whole and adds nothing but confusion to the process. Adds antagonism at worst, when people can't agree on who is "The All Time Best" who deserves to have the trophy named after them.
It's not a real "change". It's a renaming. Pointless superficial "change" like that over time adds absolutely nothing of value if it's not underpinned by real, tangible change.
If anything is "progressive" in terms of changing of the meaning of labels in this...it's that somehow "Art Ross" means "highest scoring NHLer" and has literally nothing to do with the man himself. Same for most of the other trophies. Their names are almost fully abstracted.
Maplebeasts
I See Demons!!!!!
I would be on board with naming this one after Gretz.
"-Georges Vezina only played 88 NHL games."
So you suggest changing it to the Vladislav Tretiak Trophy. How many NHL games did that guy play again?
So you suggest changing it to the Vladislav Tretiak Trophy. How many NHL games did that guy play again?
Zach716
Pucks in deep
- Nov 24, 2018
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This thread seems to pop up every other year.
I don’t understand people’s thirst for replacing any and everything traditional.
We all know the names and it gives us a connection to the long past history.
Any time this thread pops up it’s overwhelmingly on the side of “keep it” with the only argument on the other side is a weak “why not change it?”
I don’t understand people’s thirst for replacing any and everything traditional.
We all know the names and it gives us a connection to the long past history.
Any time this thread pops up it’s overwhelmingly on the side of “keep it” with the only argument on the other side is a weak “why not change it?”
Gaylord Q Tinkledink
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- Apr 29, 2018
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