Is Gretzky the most dominant athlete ever in any major sport?

[canucks4ever]

There isn't even a general consensus that he is the most dominant athlete to play his sport so how can he be the most dominant athlete across all sports?

If thats the criteria, well hello there are gretzky vs orr threads all the time. Also soccer is quite a bit harder to dominate than regional sports, this should be considered common sense.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I think these five guys are more dominant than Gretzky:

Michael Jordan

Fedor Emelianenko

Babe Ruth

Sergei Bubka

Usain Bolt

Michael Jordan was NOT more dominant than Gretzky ffs.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

I think these five guys are more dominant than Gretzky:

Michael Jordan

Fedor Emelianenko

Babe Ruth

Sergei Bubka

Usain Bolt

LOL @ Michael Jordan. He's not even the consensus GOAT of the NBA

 

[Killion]

Sergei Bubka. Voted Worlds Top Athlete several times so sure. He belongs in the conversation. Not sure how relevant someone involved in the obscure sport & discipline of Pole Vaulting might be to a full contact sport involving myriads more in way of talent & co-ordination might be but sure. I'll let that guy in.... besides. I like saying the name. Bubka. Nifty ring to it.

 

[Wrath]

Barry Bonds from 01-04 was far better than any other player's prime in the history of the game.

OPS, OPS+ and WAR all say different (aka, Babe Ruth still wins).


I'd love for you to come at me with real stats and figures instead of this though.

 

[Morozov]

If thats the criteria, well hello there are gretzky vs orr threads all the time. Also soccer is quite a bit harder to dominate than regional sports, this should be considered common sense.

"well hello" I have already touched on that same point so no need to tell me. Just because Soccer may be harder (for arguments sake) to reach the top of because of the talent pool does not mean someone is automatically more dominant if they are a top soccer player.

 

[Morozov]

LOL @ Michael Jordan. He's not even the consensus GOAT of the NBA

On what planet?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

OPS, OPS+ and WAR all say different (aka, Babe Ruth still wins).


I'd love for you to come at me with real stats and figures instead of this though.

Bonds 01-04

Average OBP: .559 (higher than any single season of Ruth's)
Average OPS: 1.365
Average OPS+: 255

Ruth 1920-24

Average OBP: .507
Average OPS: 1.281
Average OPS+: 226.8

As you can see, Ruth's prime is not superior in any way to Bonds', even without considering the wide disparity between the upper and lower-echelon players in Ruth's time. Also, OBP is much more important than slugging and I'm not sure why you excluded it unless it's because it weakens your argument. A .050 gap in OBP is massive.

 

[Rhiessan71]

Bonds 01-04

Average OBP: .559 (higher than any single season of Ruth's)
Average OPS: 1.365
Average OPS+: 255

Ruth 1920-24

Average OBP: .507
Average OPS: 1.281
Average OPS+: 226.8

As you can see, Ruth's prime is not superior in any way to Bonds', even without considering the wide disparity between the upper and lower-echelon players in Ruth's time. Also, OBP is much more important than slugging and I'm not sure why you excluded it unless it's because it weakens your argument. A .050 gap in OBP is massive.

Heh, now just insert asterisks beside all of Bond's stats and you're golden

Or are you the only person I know that, with a straight face, can actually spout Bonds' steroid enhanced stats in GOAT conversations?

 

[billybudd]

Inclined to throw the names of Roger Federer and Sugar Ray Robinson in there. Maybe Anderson Silva as well.

Edit: see two of the three have been mentioned.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

I don't know if Gretzky is the best, but he is so far ahead of his competition it's not even funny.

More assists than anyone has points.
1000+ points more than the next guy.
9 MVPs. 10 scoring titles.

He's gotta be up there.

 

[billybudd]

Roy Jones Jr is most dominant boxer up until he went up in weight class and it ruined his speed but it lasted for 15 years, long enough.

Roy Jones was much more of a Lemieux than he was a Gretzky. I'd disagree with anybody that said he wasn't the most physically gifted boxer to ever lace gloves. But he wasn't the best.

He had deep, deep flaws in his fight game. The second he was no longer (probably) the fastest fighter (and certainly the fastest fighter with one punch knockout power in both hands) with the best reflexes in history, he started being punished badly for these flaws (if it's not clear, I'm not drawing a parallel to Lemieux past the previous paragraph).

Other fighters with better fundamentals (particularly hand position and footwork) aged a whole Hell of a lot more gracefully. Hell, even Mosely aged more gracefully and nobody would throw him in as the best boxer ever.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Heh, now just insert asterisks beside all of Bond's stats and you're golden

Or are you the only person I know that, with a straight face, can actually spout Bonds' steroid enhanced stats in GOAT conversations?

Should the last 30 years of baseball history be discarded because of steroids and HGH use? Players have been cheating in various ways for the last century, why are PED's the cutoff point? Bonds was arguably the best player since Ted Williams even before starting to use PED's even though he had been playing against juiced pitchers his entire career.

 

[Rhiessan71]

Should the last 30 years of baseball history be discarded because of steroids and HGH use? Players have been cheating in various ways for the last century, why are PED's the cutoff point? Bonds was arguably the best player since Ted Williams even before starting to use PED's even though he had been playing against juiced pitchers his entire career.

For sure dude, that's the way to go, absolutely every single pitcher Bonds faced was cheating so Bonds is off the hook haha ooookkkkk
And you of course have 100% proof that 100% of the pitchers he faced were also juiced right?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

For sure dude, that's the way to go, absolutely every single pitcher Bonds faced was cheating so Bonds is off the hook haha ooookkkkk
And you of course have 100% proof that 100% of the pitchers he faced were also juiced right?

I never said that every pitcher was using PEDs. Nice strawman btw.

 

[Wrath]

Bonds 01-04

Average OBP: .559 (higher than any single season of Ruth's)
Average OPS: 1.365
Average OPS+: 255

Ruth 1920-24

Average OBP: .507
Average OPS: 1.281
Average OPS+: 226.8

As you can see, Ruth's prime is not superior in any way to Bonds', even without considering the wide disparity between the upper and lower-echelon players in Ruth's time. Also, OBP is much more important than slugging and I'm not sure why you excluded it unless it's because it weakens your argument. A .050 gap in OBP is massive.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_bat_season.shtml

My bad, I didn't realize you wanted to nitpick the 3 consecutive years in favor of Bonds.


Sorry bub, Babe's still better.

1. Babe Ruth+ (28) 14.0 1923 L
2. Babe Ruth+ (26) 12.9 1921 L
3. Babe Ruth+ (32) 12.4 1927 L
Carl Yastrzemski+ (27) 12.4 1967 L
5. Rogers Hornsby+ (28) 12.1 1924 R
6. Barry Bonds (36) 11.9 2001 L
Babe Ruth+ (25) 11.9 1920 L
8. Barry Bonds (37) 11.8 2002 L
Lou Gehrig+ (24) 11.8 1927 L
10. Babe Ruth+ (29) 11.7 1924 L



All this said, if we ignore the PED factor for Barry Bonds he's easily top 10 probably top 5 all time for baseball.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Should the last 30 years of baseball history be discarded because of steroids and HGH use?

Yes.

 

[Pominville Knows]

I think these five guys are more dominant than Gretzky:

Michael Jordan

Fedor Emelianenko

Babe Ruth

Sergei Bubka

Usain Bolt

Fedor made a career out of avoiding competing in the highest caliber organisation in his sport. It's almost like saying Jörgen Jönsson is the best hockey player ever just becouse he (may) have been the best in Elitserien history. Jönsson could have continued playing in the NHL, but did'nt.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Pride was a highly competitive organisation, what are you talking about?

 

[King Woodballs]

For many years I always thought Gretzky was the best and most dominate of his sport.

Then Tiger Woods came along, and my opinion started to sway.

 

[Pominville Knows]

Pride was a highly competitive organisation, what are you talking about?

Has'nt he been avoiding the UFC? Pride perhaps WAS the best organisation, but have not been so for a number of years. His three straight losses against amongst one other Werdum and Henderson was'nt exactly great proof for his brilliance either. In any way: How can anybody, in the UFC or not, claim to be the best ever when he has'nt fought everybody in the elite? This goes for the UFC champs as well although in 2013 i believe that they generally are the true world champions.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Has'nt he been avoiding the UFC? Pride perhaps WAS the best organisation, but have not been so for a number of years. His three straight losses against amongst one other Werdum and Henderson was'nt exactly great proof for his brilliance either. In any way: How can anybody, in the UFC or not, claim to be the best ever when he has'nt fought everybody in the elite? This goes for the UFC champs as well although in 2013 i believe that they generally are the true world champions.

During Fedor's prime, Pride was the superior organization in the heavyweight division. Fedor crushed all the best fighters of his prime period except for maybe Mir.

 

[Pominville Knows]

During Fedor's prime, Pride was the superior organization in the heavyweight division. Fedor crushed all the best fighters of his prime period except for maybe Mir.

Yeah but i feel that he did not get to show off against all the best, which makes it hard for either he or say any of the mirroring UFC champions at the time to be called even the best of their time.
Fedor did not fight Lesnar before Brocks health problems, and as i said got beaten by by Werdum and an aging Dan Henderson. Wins against Tim Sylvia after he got dethroned in the UFC, Mark Hunt, and even Mirko Filipovic in 2005 is not very solid proof in my mind that Fedor is in the running for the most dominant ATHLETE of all time. Politics does not belong in sports, but unfortunately it DOES become involved sometimes(Not the least in MMA and boxing) and that's why i for example cant really see Swedens World Ice Hockey Championships gold medals in 1953, 1957 and 1962 as us really even being the best amongst "amateurs", becouse not all eligible top teams participated becouse of politics.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Yeah but i feel that he did not get to show off against all the best, which makes it hard for either he or say any of the mirroring UFC champions at the time to be called even the best of their time.
Fedor did not fight Lesnar before Brocks health problems, and as i said got beaten by by Werdum and an aging Dan Henderson. Wins against Tim Sylvia after he got dethroned in the UFC, Mark Hunt, and even Mirko Filipovic in 2005 is not very solid proof in my mind that Fedor is in the running for the most dominant ATHLETE of all time. Politics does not belong in sports, but unfortunately it DOES become involved sometimes(Not the least in MMA and boxing) and that's why i for example cant really see Swedens World Ice Hockey Championships gold medals in 1953, 1957 and 1962 as us really even being the best amongst "amateurs", becouse not all eligible top teams participated becouse of politics.

Oh I don't think that Fedor is the most dominant athlete of all time (though, I suppose he could be in the discussion at least), but people have this thing about Fedor "ducking" UFC when there's a lot of reasons as to why it's either kind of silly or incorrect. It had a lot to do with Dana White being a prude about finances as well, like his absolute refusal to do any co-promotions.

 

[jigglysquishy]

On Emelianenko, he retired last year and was certainly "washed up" as early as 2009. He was noticeably slower and was showing his age.

Back around 2005, he was simply the most dominant heavyweight MMA has ever seen. He regularly beat the best contenders in the best organization in the world. Yes, UFC is clearly the number one now, but ten years ago it was Pride.

Fedor is a victim of poor timing and Dana White. If he were five years younger and Dana White treated him well, Fedor would be one of the biggest athletes in America.