habsrule4eva3089
Registered User
- Nov 22, 2008
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Is Gretzky the most dominant athlete ever in any major sport?
- Thread starter Cursed Lemon
- Start date
Let me start off by saying that I love Gretzky and I have a lot of respect for what he's done for the game of hockey, and that he was very talented. His stats were very inflated for a number of reasons. 1) No one trained nearly as hard in the gym in Gretzky's prime, so players were weaker and slower. Gretzky spent his summers golfing and relaxing and so did all the other NHLers. 2) Goalies were terrible back in Gretzky's prime the majority were stand up goalies and they exposed a huge gaping five hole which Gretzky would shoot a weak wrist shot and it would go in most of the time. 3) No one hit Gretzky....maybe because it was an Unwritten rule, or maybe because of the goons that protected him......4) Goalie equipment was ridiculously small..It was really unfair to them because so much net was exposed that Gretzky could just pass to Kurri or Messier the puck and they could tap it in to the wide open cage. I could go on and on but people seem to think he was God like but really he was just a pretty talented skater and better than the average bum who was able to make the NHL at that time period.....If he was in the NHL no he'd get knocked on his ass so much I don't think he'd have a very long career at all.
Messi has basically won everything and more on a team level and individual level except the World Cup, and being from Argentina it's going to be extremely hard. The team just doesnt stack up against germany, spain, brazil etc. It could be possible but not winning the world cup will not diminish Messi's legacy imo.
And Gretzky never won without stacked teams either.
Paul4587
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- Jan 26, 2006
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Jtown
Registered User
I do but i don't like to glorify guys who were great back in time when whole sport was so different, and this is not a mockery but the sport is totally different now, same goes for all the other sports too. It's a habit to make things look better back in history, all was better back then. Men were made of steel, now they're wood and so on.
brianscot
Registered User
How exactly was boxing different back in the day? Along with legitimate wrestling it remains the most basic of all sports.
Two boxers, one ring.
Sports medicine and exercise physiology/training are legitimate sciences and are light years ahead of when Sugar Ray Robinson was around, but has the actual contest itself changed that much?
This isnt' written to be critical, I'm just interested in how people believe that boxing has changed over the years.
When it comes to dominant athletes, I'm not sure that Joe Louis has been mentioned yet. He had 25 successful title defenses over a 12 year period.
The sportswriters of the time referred to it as his "bum on the month" campaign, but you can't blame a person if their peak era was considered soft.
Two boxers, one ring.
Sports medicine and exercise physiology/training are legitimate sciences and are light years ahead of when Sugar Ray Robinson was around, but has the actual contest itself changed that much?
This isnt' written to be critical, I'm just interested in how people believe that boxing has changed over the years.
When it comes to dominant athletes, I'm not sure that Joe Louis has been mentioned yet. He had 25 successful title defenses over a 12 year period.
The sportswriters of the time referred to it as his "bum on the month" campaign, but you can't blame a person if their peak era was considered soft.
Pominville Knows
Registered User
How does Gretz compare to this man?
Bad genetics for a visually nice muscular composition.
Plus he competed in a sport that distingues their top talents into four different strokes, therefore watering down the elite on each discipline to one fourth on each. For christs sake, just see who's fastest on every distance! Let them use whatever style they want like in any other sport. Usain Bolt uses one style, Tyson Gay another.
Sentinel
Registered User
Argentina won two WC and was one PK away from the third. Two of these were on a watch from a certain short, fat player. Messi failed on national level nearly as much as Gretzky succeeded.
Hobnobs
Pinko
- Nov 29, 2011
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Written by someone who clearly doesnt follow football...
Messi has taken part in two world cups, the first one he became the youngest player ever to score for argentina and he was injured. He shouldnt even have played.
Second one he was the offensive catalyst and playmaker, it wasnt very hard for the german machine to zero in on him.
Argentina won two championships, one by the referee missing Maradonna's "Hand of God"-goal.
People also seem to forget that Messi is still only 25 years old
Hobnobs
Pinko
- Nov 29, 2011
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The problem with boxing is that it quickly established mafia ties and became corrupt...
cutchemist42
Registered User
Search thread and congrats to the posters who said Don Bradman ! It should be him for atleast top 5 consideration.
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Sentinel
Registered User
Boo-hoo, I think I'm going to cry now. The same things are always said about underachievers: lone star on a crappy team, injuries, etc. Yet somehow true greats always shine through. Even if they don't win, they put up an effort that nobody ever questions, like Yzerman in 1989 and Gretzky in 93.
Now you are talking. Let's wait until his career is over before typing the word "dominance."People also seem to forget that Messi is still only 25 years old
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates Of Arda
It hasn't changed much. If anything it's regressed as the talent pool has shrunk: Boxing used to be one of the top sports in the world attracting it's fair share of top talent, now it's the ultimate niche sport and mostly gets the dregs who've washed out of other more lucrative sports.
Boxing is also the sport where sports medicine and technology have the least impact. It really doesn't matter how much of a physical specimen someone is, when you step into the ring the only thing that matters is if you can fight. It's why there have been plenty of non-athletes that have been champions in boxing: Boxing is ultimately a contest of skill and will not a bodybuilding contest.
PS. There's a back-story to the "Bum of the Month Club" and for the most part they weren't bums.
Yeah I sorta have to agree with this. Although this also basically disqualifies Jordan (Russell, Wilt, and Magic) and Tiger (Nicklaus) among a few others.
Babe Ruth still stands alone though. If you polled knowledgable baseball players 90+% of them would tell you that Babe Ruth was the GOAT in baseball. What he was able to do compared to his peers was straight up absurd.
One huge change to boxing, I'll concede, was the rule that stated you had to go to a neutral corner after a knockdown. Dempsey, a huge supporter of this rule, fell victim to it when it was first introduced, resulting in what came to be known as "The Long Count". Prior to this rule, a boxer was allowed to knock his opponent down, stand over him, and. Hit him again the second he stood up
VerySuperFamous
Registered User
You can make a case for Lou Gehrig though, would be stronger if he didn't develop get fatally ill when he was still arguably in his prime
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pluppe
Registered User
- Apr 6, 2009
- 693
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Written by someone who clearly doesnt follow football...
Messi has taken part in two world cups, the first one he became the youngest player ever to score for argentina and he was injured. He shouldnt even have played.
Second one he was the offensive catalyst and playmaker, it wasnt very hard for the german machine to zero in on him.
Argentina won two championships, one by the referee missing Maradonna's "Hand of God"-goal.
People also seem to forget that Messi is still only 25 years old
There are excuses but there is no doubt that Messi has not delivered to the extent that one should expect and that others have done before him under similar circumstances (see Maradona) And soccer is a sport in which great weight has been put on international achievements whae evaluating players. In this light Messi still has a lot to prove. But as you say he still has time to change this.
But you have to agree that he has spent the majority of his career on arguably the best team ever and which core has won 3 straight international tournaments without Messi.
I am the Liquor
ABK
- Oct 15, 2008
- 40,499
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What a ridiculous post.
Of course people tried to hit Gretzky. Thing is they could rarely accomplish the feat. He was too quick/shifty/smart and rarely got caught (in his prime).
If the goalies were so terrible why werent multiple players putting up 200pts? Seems to me they should have been. Thing is Gretzky could have scored even more points than he did if that had been what he was going for. He was so much better than everyone else there was really nothing else like him (in his Oiler days). He slowed down after the move to LA. Janet must have sucked all the vitality out of him or he just got jaded by the whole trade/sale fiasco.
Gretzky thought the game better than anyone before or since. He was always two steps ahead of everyone else. That is what made him great.
You can make a case for Lou Gehrig though, would be stronger if he didn't develop get fatally ill when he was still arguably in his prime
Lou Gehrig's case to be in front of Babe Ruth is similar to that of Mario ahead of Gretzky.
Lou coulda compiled 700+ HR if he stayed healthy (and aged well), Babe Ruth did.
Lets not forget Babe Ruth held the home run record in a single season until the steroid powered Mcguire vs. Sosa contest of the mid-late 90s!
Also lets not forget that Babe Ruth came into the game about 8 years before Lou Gehrig did. When Babe Ruth came into the league he was the first of his kind. Think of if Coffey started playing after Orr or something (although Gehrig obv is better than Coffey in terms of all time ranking in respective sports).
Babe Ruth was also a successful pitcher too before he was converted to an outfielder. But lets not get away from things, neither of them were exceptional at fielding. Ken Griffey Jr. and Willy Mays were better all-around/five tool players.
Then advanced stats continue to back up the fact that Babe Ruth is the greatest of all time. Best career OPS/OPS+ is Babe Ruth (although Gehrig manages a very respectable 4th in this category, 3rd if you wish to discount Barry Bonds), then of course the vaunted WAR stat in single season, "prime", and career heavily favors Babe Ruth.
Babe Ruth is pretty much undisputed GOAT in baseball, I've yet to hear a reasonable argument for a player better than him.
Michael Schumacher dominated Formula One for a good while but would you consider a F1 driver an athlete or a sportsman?
Not really sure you'd consider it a major sport. Cricket in terms of popularity is a major sports and Shane Warne and Ricky Ponting dominated it for a while.
Not really sure you'd consider it a major sport. Cricket in terms of popularity is a major sports and Shane Warne and Ricky Ponting dominated it for a while.
