Is Germany a part of the big nations now?

[Maverick41]

Czechs have more relevant NHL players than all the other nations in your "Tier 2" combined.

To me the Czechs are either at the bottom of Tier 1 or at the top of tier 2. That doesn't mean they couldn't beat some of the tier 1 nations and lose to some of the tier 2 nations, but right now I feel like they're sort of in a tier of their own in between 1 and 2.

 

[Zenos]

This WC was a joke. Comparinhg to Football(Soccer) Olympics. Mexico won this 2012. Is Mexiko a Football-Powerhouse or almost somthing like this? No!

You're right in that I wouldn't necessarily call them a powerhouse, but Mexico is definitely a legitimate soccer nation - and a very strong one at that.

They've qualified for 7 straight World Cups, made it past the group stage every single time in that time-frame (only other country is Brazil), won their conference more times than any other country with 11 championships (admittedly, North America is a week group), and also finished either 2nd or 3rd in Copa America on 5 different occasions.

Obviously the landscape of the two sports is vastly different, but German hockey has a loooong ways to go to break into even that level.

 

[KahunWOW]

A team with Draisaitl, Stützle, Seider and Grubauer could upset any of the top best on best teams out there in a single game. But it would still be an upset. But that upset scenario is at least possible now.

 

[Daeni10]

We are not a tier 1 hockey nation and I think that it will take quite some time until you could make a legitimate case for Germany to be up there, but that 1st of all heavily depends on how our top prospects pan out and more importantly if there will be more players like Stützle, Seider, Reichel, Peterka coming through in the next 10+ years. Thats impossible for us to predict right now.

I also think that people are way to focused about ranking teams by their ability to beat the bigger teams. In my opinion its more about how consistently you are able to beat the lower level teams, and I think Germany made a huge step forward in that regard. Our results are way more consistent than in the past and if an upset happens, its us upsetting someone and not us getting upset. So I think we are on the upper end of tier 2 right now

 

[Lambo]

You're right in that I wouldn't necessarily call them a powerhouse, but Mexico is definitely a legitimate soccer nation - and a very strong one at that.

They've qualified for 7 straight World Cups, made it past the group stage every single time in that time-frame (only other country is Brazil), won their conference more times than any other country with 11 championships (admittedly, North America is a week group), and also finished either 2nd or 3rd in Copa America on 5 different occasions.

Obviously the landscape of the two sports is vastly different, but German hockey has a loooong ways to go to break into even that level.

Yes right! Mexico is not a Powerhouse but decent Football-Nation.

 

[Lambo]

Peterka could make a big jump, he’s got a ton of potential and could be better than Hoffman by time of Olympics imo. I’d argue that point with Stutzle too, I’d say he will be better than any swiss forward besides Fiala by the time of the Olympics. He’s got the potential to make a huge jump in his second year, maybe he will be even better than fiala. Is Corvi really better than Noebels, I don’t think so, I’d say they are even. The rest of your comparisons I would agree with.

These comparing are based on the current status
. Not potential or future or other speculations.

 

[swissdude]

Peterka could make a big jump, he’s got a ton of potential and could be better than Hoffman by time of Olympics imo. I’d argue that point with Stutzle too, I’d say he will be better than any swiss forward besides Fiala by the time of the Olympics. He’s got the potential to make a huge jump in his second year, maybe he will be even better than fiala. Is Corvi really better than Noebels, I don’t think so, I’d say they are even. The rest of your comparisons I would agree with.

let's wait and see, who knows what will happen with Stützle, this season he had fewer points than Suter, Fiala, Niederreiter, Meier, he's young though and has potential but he also might get concussed several times by some goons like Bärtschi did (what I do not hope) and he'll never reach his potential so.....

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Germany would have to prove something in a best-on-best tournament to even make a claim here. And I honestly don't think they could.

Germany in best on best adds one world elite player, one elite *prospect* and a couple of capable players who are likely not hugely better than what's normally on the team, the top nations meanwhile turn into totally different teams.

FWIW I don't consider Slovakia a 'big nation', I think they're straddling the line.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Fiala - Hischier - Niederreiter
Meier -Kurashev - Hoffmann
Suter - Corvi - Andrighetto
Baertschy - Haas - Malgin

weaker than german OF???

It s time to make a poll?

u did, and here is the results so far:

as expected, the vast majority thinks that germany is better than swiss.

 

[Lambo]

u did, and here is the results so far:

as expected, the vast majority thinks that germany is better than swiss.

Yes you won! I lost! Now we ll see the real truth in future.

 

[Elvs]

u did, and here is the results so far:

as expected, the vast majority thinks that germany is better than swiss.

This is HFboards, where people love prospects. Draisaitl is the only player that stands out here. The Swiss have four forwards who are arguably better than Germany's second best, and without doubt better than Germany's third best.

They have a defenseman (Josi) that's clearly better than anyone Germany has currently, and Seider is the only one who'd make Switzerland's defence at all. Guys like Reichel, and especially Peterka and Bokk, have yet to prove anything. They are only winning this poll because they are early draft picks.

Switzerland has far better depth. In any game they'd shut Draisaitl down, they'd win. Frankly, they could afford to give him 1 goal, and they'd still win most of the time.

Obviously, I'm talking about now. Stuetzle and Seider, as well as others, could take big strides as soon as next year, completely changing my opininon once the Olympics starts.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

This is HFboards, where people love prospects. Draisaitl is the only player that stands out here. The Swiss have four forwards who are arguably better than Germany's second best, and without doubt better than Germany's third best.

They have a defenseman (Josi) that's clearly better than anyone Germany has currently, and Seider is the only one who'd make Switzerland's defence at all. Guys like Reichel, and especially Peterka and Bokk, have yet to prove anything. They are only winning this poll because they are early draft picks.

Switzerland has far better depth. In any game they'd shut Draisaitl down, they'd win. Frankly, they could afford to give him 1 goal, and they'd still win most of the time.

Obviously, I'm talking about now. Stuetzle and Seider, as well as others, could take big strides as soon as next year, completely changing my opininon once the Olympics starts.

Nah they're not that far apart. I'd almost guarantee that if Germany play Switzerland in a 'best on best' scenario it'd be a close game with it potentially going either way. Most games between Switzerland and Germany end up being close, tight affairs. If you put them on the ice 10 times, it'd probably finish 6-4 for whomever comes out on top.

For the purpose of this thread neither Switzerland nor Germany are 'big' hockey nations. They're middling ones that produce the odd NHL players without ever having the depth to compete realistically vs the top nations.

 

[swissdude]

Nah they're not that far apart. I'd almost guarantee that if Germany play Switzerland in a 'best on best' scenario it'd be a close game with it potentially going either way. Most games between Switzerland and Germany end up being close, tight affairs. If you put them on the ice 10 times, it'd probably finish 6-4 for whomever comes out on top.

For the purpose of this thread neither Switzerland nor Germany are 'big' hockey nations. They're middling ones that produce the odd NHL players without ever having the depth to compete realistically vs the top nations.

Torino 2006
SUI-FIN 0:5
CZE-SUI 2:3
CAN-SUI 0:2
GER-SUI 2:2
SUI-ITA 3:3
SWE-SUI 6:2

Vancouver 2010
USA-SUI 3:1
SUI-CAN 2:3 SO
NOR-SUI 4:5 OT
BLR-SUI 2:3
USA-SUI 2:0

Sotchi 2014
LAT-SUI 0:1
SWE-SUI 1:0
SUI-CZE 1:0
SUI-LAT 1:3

what do you mean with never having the depth to compete?

 

[Husqvarna]

Welcome to the bungle in the jungle Germany:

That's alright by me.

 

[member 305909]

Finland in the 70s and the 80s was not the kind of a hockey superpower as it is now but back then Finland was much better at many other sports than it is now. Athletics for example.

The 70s level of athletics success for Finland was something we can't even dream of today.

Similarly in the olympuc games Finland used to get a respectable amount of medals. In Rio 2016 Finland got one medal.

Makes you kind of thing is therw some zero sum game at play. Hockey has gone forward at the expense of other sports?

 

[Eye of Ra]

Torino 2006
SUI-FIN 0:5
CZE-SUI 2:3
CAN-SUI 0:2
GER-SUI 2:2
SUI-ITA 3:3
SWE-SUI 6:2

Vancouver 2010
USA-SUI 3:1
SUI-CAN 2:3 SO
NOR-SUI 4:5 OT
BLR-SUI 2:3
USA-SUI 2:0

Sotchi 2014
LAT-SUI 0:1
SWE-SUI 1:0
SUI-CZE 1:0
SUI-LAT 1:3

what do you mean with never having the depth to compete?

damm czechs have problems with switzerland in best on best tournament.

 

[swissdude]

damm czechs have problems with switzerland in best on best tournament.

Canada as well, Sweden not so much but not only best on best LOL, and I really think Germany also could compete best on best, it's not likely that they win the tournament but in a single eliminiation game they could win against any team and the same applies for Switzerland

 

[Peiskos]

Canada as well, Sweden no so much but not only best on best LOL, and I really think Germany also could compete best on best, it's not likely that they win the tournament but in a single eliminiation game they could win against any team and the same applies for Switzerland

Apart from the outlier in 2015 where Canada was just a steamroller, the games between Canada and Switzerland always seem to finish 3-2 most times lol, 6 of the last 9 meetings actually.

2010 Olympics - Canada 3, Switzerland 2 (SO)

2010 IIHF WC - Canada 1, Switzerland 4
2011 IIHF WC - Canada 4, Switzerland 3 (OT)
2012 IIHF WC - Canada 3, Switzerland 2
2013 IIHF WC - Canada 2, Switzerland 3 (SO)
2015 IIHF WC - Canada 7, Switzerland 2
2017 IIHF WC - Canada 2, Switzerland 3 (OT)
2018 IIHF WC - Canada 2, Switzerland 3
2019 IIHF WC - Canada 3, Switzerland 2 (OT)

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Torino 2006
SUI-FIN 0:5
CZE-SUI 2:3
CAN-SUI 0:2
GER-SUI 2:2
SUI-ITA 3:3
SWE-SUI 6:2

Vancouver 2010
USA-SUI 3:1
SUI-CAN 2:3 SO
NOR-SUI 4:5 OT
BLR-SUI 2:3
USA-SUI 2:0

Sotchi 2014
LAT-SUI 0:1
SWE-SUI 1:0
SUI-CZE 1:0
SUI-LAT 1:3

what do you mean with never having the depth to compete?

Sorry, how did it all end for Switzerland? 2006 Switzerland got punked by Sweden in the QF, 20010 SUI barely made the QF needing OT/SO to get past Norway and Belarus and then lost in the QF, 2014 lost to Latvia in qualifying playoff. In order to say you're competing with the top nations you need to win a KO game against them and make the SFs. Switzerland typically can't even do that at the World Champs facing weakened teams. When was the last time, 1998? And that year you got into the SF via a round-robin tournament as well.

 

[swissdude]

Sorry, how did it all end for Switzerland? 2006 Switzerland got punked by Sweden in the QF, 20010 SUI barely made the QF needing OT/SO to get past Norway and Belarus and then lost in the QF, 2014 lost to Latvia in qualifying playoff. In order to say you're competing with the top nations you need to win a KO game against them and make the SFs. Switzerland typically can't even do that at the World Champs facing weakened teams. When was the last time, 1998? And that year you got into the SF via a round-robin tournament as well.

The statistical sample of the best on best tournaments is relatively small and since Switzerland did not have any regular NHL forwards in 2006 and 2010, it is also not very meaningful. The statement regarding the world championships, well, the way to eternal happiness is not to argue with dilettantes, so I agree with you

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

The statistical sample of the best on best tournaments is relatively small and since Switzerland did not have any regular NHL forwards in 2006 and 2010, it is also not very meaningful. The statement regarding the world championships, well, the way to eternal happiness is not to argue with dilettantes, so I agree with you

Sorry, man, but the proof is in the pudding and when the chips are down Switzerland lose. Pretty much every time.

 

[GKJ]

I think they've proven their meddle in tournaments since the 2018 Olympics, their level of pro players is on even footing with the other European nations, and they've also been producing top young talent. But I think people will believe it when we see them in a best-on-best tournaments and see that roster play in games on the ice.

Germany and Switzerland are both clearly ahead of Slovakia, if anything because they have better younger talent.

 

[Eye of Ra]

The statistical sample of the best on best tournaments is relatively small and since Switzerland did not have any regular NHL forwards in 2006 and 2010, it is also not very meaningful. The statement regarding the world championships, well, the way to eternal happiness is not to argue with dilettantes, so I agree with you

i think swiss made semifinals in 1998 wc? lost to sweden, think it was 2 games. so even in the 90s and early 00s switzerland made it deep into playoffs from time to time.

 

[Name Nameless]

u did, and here is the results so far:

as expected, the vast majority thinks that germany is better than swiss.

Or there are as many as 34 German hockey-fans at this boards.

 

[Lambo]

The statistical sample of the best on best tournaments is relatively small and since Switzerland did not have any regular NHL forwards in 2006 and 2010, it is also not very meaningful. The statement regarding the world championships, well, the way to eternal happiness is not to argue with dilettantes, so I agree with you

Summarized! Switzerland is competitive at this level (Best on Best), but not a medal contender. Similar to soccer. Switzerland is also competitive there, but they will probably never be able to reach a World Cup or EC-HF. At most with luck.