Is Germany a part of the big nations now?

[member 305909]

Did any DDR-players get included in the German team after the unification? Or conversely, are there any players in today's German team who would play for DDR if there hadn't been the unification?

 

[GermanNuck]

Did any DDR-players get included in the German team after the unification? Or conversely, are there any players in today's German team who would play for DDR if there hadn't been the unification?

Dominik Kahun was born in tue Czech Republic, Leon Gawanke in Berlin (not sure about East or West) and Marco Nowak was born in Dresden.

So I suppose these three would be DDR players.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Slovakia is definitely not better than Germany and Switzerland right now. Outside of Tatar and Cernak they dont have any above average NHL players. Yes they have a lot of young players but none of them is guaranteed to stick in the NHL long term and they dont have any drafted blue chip prospects. Maybe the 2004/2005 generation will turn the tide for them but thats still in the future. They also still rely on a couple of players that are going to retire sooner than later.

As far as Germany goes I feel like people are slightly overrating them as well because of a new wave of young talent. Stützle, Seider, Reichel, Peterka etc. are not all going to be stars or superstars on the NHL level in the future. Statistically at least some of them are bound to not reach their projected ceiling. Not every first round pick becomes a top six forward or a top pairing d man. And even if all of those players will pan out as projected its not likely that Germany will produce high and prospects at nearly the same rate in the future. The 2003 and 2004 birth years look already much weaker than their "golden generation". Smaller hockey nations like Switzerland, Slovakia and Germany will always have fluctuations when it comes to producing high end talent.

the thing is that slovakia is not a smaller hockey nation. with czechslovakia they where nr 3 in the world for a long time and when slovakia got Independence they where top nation from 1993 to 2012. from 2013 to today they are still maintaning good level with being nr 8 in the world. the question is when slovakia will go back to being top nation not if. slovakia being not a top nation since 2013 its a fluke, all big nations can have up and downs.

is their talent already there to make slovakia go back to where they belong? Yes. Molnar, Slafkovsky, Nemec, Knazko, Chromiak, Kaslik, Myklukha, Kolenic, Jedlicka, Faith, Lasak, Stacha, Fatul, Dvorsky amont many others are all blue chip prospects. I know that among many scouts they are not considered that its becuse Slovakia gets underrated becuse they declined a bit since 2013.

 

[Elvs]

the thing is that slovakia is not a smaller hockey nation. with czechslovakia they where nr 3 in the world for a long time and when slovakia got Independence they where top nation from 1993 to 2012. from 2013 to today they are still maintaning good level with being nr 8 in the world. the question is when slovakia will go back to being top nation not if. slovakia being not a top nation since 2013 its a fluke, all big nations can have up and downs.

is their talent already there to make slovakia go back to where they belong? Yes. Molnar, Slafkovsky, Nemec, Knazko, Chromiak, Kaslik, Myklukha, Kolenic, Jedlicka, Faith, Lasak, Stacha, Fatul, Dvorsky amont many others are all blue chip prospects. I know that among many scouts they are not considered that its becuse Slovakia gets underrated becuse they declined a bit since 2013.

Many of those has gone undrafted and are defenitely not blue-chip prospects, and I'm saying this as the biggest Slovakia fan. Slafkovsky, Nemec and Dvorsky are the only blue-chip prospects in that group, but much can still happen before their respective draft years. Knazko and Chromiak are decent prospects, potentially future NHL'ers. The others, save from maybe Molnar, are big projects. I do like Stacha and Kaslik though. I thought both should have been late round selections last year. They have a few good young players in the AHL also at the moment. Slovakia is probably about to get better again, but they still have a long way to go.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Many of those has gone undrafted and are defenitely not blue-chip prospects, and I'm saying this as the biggest Slovakia fan. Slafkovsky, Nemec and Dvorsky are the only blue-chip prospects in that group, but much can still happen before their respective draft years. Knazko and Chromiak are decent prospects, potentially future NHL'ers. The others, save from maybe Molnar, are big projects. I do like Stacha and Kaslik though. I thought both should have been late round selections last year. They have a few good young players in the AHL also at the moment. Slovakia is probably about to get better again, but they still have a long way to go.

do you have slovakian roots or something? do you not cheer on sweden too?

 

[Elvs]

do you have slovakian roots or something? do you not cheer on sweden too?

I cheer for Slovakia out of sentimental reasons. I grew up with them as one of hockey's powerhouses and Lubomir Visnovsky is my favourite defenseman ever. I worry about Slovakias future in ice hockey and so I cheer for them to bounce back. I root for Sweden too, but since I've become a hockey fan I've seen us win the Olympics once and the World Championship four times. I needed something "new" and found an underdog in Slovakia to root for, and started to keep track of their prospects.

In regards to ice hockey, what I care about the most is growing the game in more countries. I want to see Switzerland, Germany, Denmark and Latvia do well too (as those are currently the most realistic nations to compete with better nations), and down the line it'd be cool to see France and Great Britain close in on the elite as well.

Not that they've fallen like Slovakia has, but I have a soft spot for the Czech's too. I like to see their young players do well in the NHL, but unlike most people, I think they are still a possible candidate to win an Olympic gold next year. Though they're defenitely ranked last among the "big six".

 

[Bure80]

Dominik Kahun was born in tue Czech Republic, Leon Gawanke in Berlin (not sure about East or West) and Marco Nowak was born in Dresden.

So I suppose these three would be DDR players.

Frank Hördler was born in DDR too.

 

[Czechboy]

Though they're defenitely ranked last among the "big six"

I still see it as a big 5 and that the Czechs are slightly on top of the 'next 5'. I say slightly because a best on best Slovakia, Germany, Swiss, Dane or Latvian team could definitely beat our best on best squad.

Who knows what happens at Olympics (if it happens) and the Czechs could cause a big upset but they'd need a few bounces to go their way:

need one of our NHL goalies to catch fire
need all our good forwards to be in form
some next steps for Zadina and Chytil (I'd say Necas has established himself pretty well)
Kaut, Lauko and Jenik to become NHL regulars
healthy Krejci and Hertl
need a full recovery from Kempny
need the coaches not to cut NHL players for Extraliga ones and then putting those extraliga ones in the top 6 and pp

Reality is that at least 3 good NHL Czechs will be left behind for players that will never make the NHL. Czech problems run deep and they usually start at the coaching level and poor decisions (hey, let's cut the NHL goalie and play the guy doing well in Europe who will never make the NHL!). Let's put in an inexperienced Euro defender and cut an NHL one and see how that looks against NHL players.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

One thing about us Germans, we’re extremely patriotic.
We may not have the talent like other nations but our heart can take us far, especially when we’re overlooked.

 

[Eye of Ra]

One thing about us Germans, we’re extremely patriotic.
We may not have the talent like other nations but our heart can take us far, especially when we’re overlooked.

i think germany reached semifinals 1 time in 10 last wc tournament. would not call that "take us far"

 

[moropanov]

Germany is nowadays decent level you cant deny it potential medalist at IIHF WCH level, but not big nation close to Switzerland's level.

 

[Czechboy]

Here is Germany's Hlinka result in 2021:

And here is the result from the recent U18 in 2021

I believe 3 Germans were taken in the most recent draft.

I agree that Drai, Peterka, Stutzl, Seider, Grubauer etc. are all amazing. I agree the German's had some nice draft classes (no different from the Swiss or the Danes in in previous strong generations). However, I think they'll need to start winning more and getting more players (than 3 ) drafted to really make a dent. I say this because the Czechs aren't in the Top 6 anymore and part of it is poor results at the U18, U20 and Hlinka and averaging about 8 guys drafted a year. It's not enough.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Here is Germany's Hlinka result in 2021:

View attachment 461120

And here is the result from the recent U18 in 2021

View attachment 461121


I believe 3 Germans were taken in the most recent draft.

I agree that Drai, Peterka, Stutzl, Seider, Grubauer etc. are all amazing. I agree the German's had some nice draft classes (no different from the Swiss or the Danes in in previous strong generations). However, I think they'll need to start winning more and getting more players (than 3 ) drafted to really make a dent. I say this because the Czechs aren't in the Top 6 anymore and part of it is poor results at the U18, U20 and Hlinka and averaging about 8 guys drafted a year. It's not enough.

You’re absolutely right. We’re seeing an influx of German talent at this stage, German hockey is definitely on the rise in large part to the silver in 2018 then Draisaitl, Seider and Stützle.
I’d say that Germany is in that tier above Belarus, Kazakhstan, Denmark, Austria, and Norway. They’re; in my opinion they’re in a tier with the Swiss; with the Slovaks and Czecks a tier above them but not too far ahead.

I’m hopeful that Germany can stay in the top division in their respective age groups for 5+ years in a row. That alone will show amazing progression for the Deutschland and I genuinely think it’s possible.

The 7th place finish at the Hlinka alone is cause for celebration for German hockey, since Canada was unable to attend, they needed a replacement team and Germany got the call.
We were just happy to be there since it was Germany’s first ever Hlinka and to not finish last was an achievement in and of its own; Germany may get the invite next year over the Swiss because of it!

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I do not see much change in level compared to the previous generation.

Draisaitl, Stutzle and Seider give the illusion of a great nation.

But behind them there are only a few interesting players and then nothing.

I don't see any future at GK position after the Grubauer (30 y) / Greiss (35 y) tandem.

Apart from Seider, the level of German defenders is far from the NHL.

The forwards are more interesting. Behind Draisaitl-Stutzle, Bokk, Reichel and Peterka should replace Kuhnhackl, Rieder, Noebels.

In 5 years, here is the list of German players capable of playing in NHL: Draisaitl, Stutzle, Seider, Reichel, Peterka, Bokk, Lutz, Grubauer.

Maximum 8 therefore. In 2008, there were 9.

My definition of a great hockey nation is a nation that can present at the Olympic Games, a team made up entirely of players with the level to play in the NHL.

Apart from the traditional top 6, only Slovakia was able to claim this status for a few years.

 

[Czechboy]

You’re absolutely right. We’re seeing an influx of German talent at this stage, German hockey is definitely on the rise in large part to the silver in 2018 then Draisaitl, Seider and Stützle.
I’d say that Germany is in that tier above Belarus, Kazakhstan, Denmark, Austria, and Norway. They’re; in my opinion they’re in a tier with the Swiss; with the Slovaks and Czecks a tier above them but not too far ahead.

I’m hopeful that Germany can stay in the top division in their respective age groups for 5+ years in a row. That alone will show amazing progression for the Deutschland and I genuinely think it’s possible.

The 7th place finish at the Hlinka alone is cause for celebration for German hockey, since Canada was unable to attend, they needed a replacement team and Germany got the call.
We were just happy to be there since it was Germany’s first ever Hlinka and to not finish last was an achievement in and of its own; Germany may get the invite next year over the Swiss because of it!

FWIW.. if Olympics go pro on pro and Czechs play Germany. That will be a 1 goal game and I have no idea who wins.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Palat-Hertl-Pastrnak
Vrana-Necas-Voracek
Zacha-Krejci-Kubalik
Nosek-Chytil-Zadina
Faksa-Kase

Kempny-Hronek
Zboril-Gudas
Hajek-Rutta
Simek

Mrzak-Vanecech-Rittich

At its peak 20 years ago, the Czech Republic was a top 4 nation, better than Sweden.

Ok his level has dropped a lot. But it's still a great NHL level team with a deeper succession than Germany.

10 goalkeepers selected during the last 5 drafts, defenders with great potential who are arriving (Hamara, Jiricek) and some very talented forwards as prospects (Petr, Jecho, Sale)

In one game, of course Germany can beat Czechia. This is the interest of international competitions. But the hierarchy is very fixed. Czechia is 6th for the current decade.

 

[moropanov]

Palat-Hertl-Pastrnak
Vrana-Necas-Voracek
Zacha-Krejci-Kubalik
Nosek-Chytil-Zadina
Faksa-Kase

Kempny-Hronek
Zboril-Gudas
Hajek-Rutta
Simek

Mrzak-Vanecech-Rittich

At its peak 20 years ago, the Czech Republic was a top 4 nation, better than Sweden.

Ok his level has dropped a lot. But it's still a great NHL level team with a deeper succession than Germany.

10 goalkeepers selected during the last 5 drafts, defenders with great potential who are arriving (Hamara, Jiricek) and some very talented forwards as prospects (Petr, Jecho, Sale)

In one game, of course Germany can beat Czechia. This is the interest of international competitions. But the hierarchy is very fixed. Czechia is 6th for the current decade.

Czech were top 1_2 country in 98-2001 so yes better than Sweden, but Sweden at theyr best were also top 2 with Canada along with Canada 2003~2008 or so. SWE with theyr golden generation Forsberg Lidström Sundin Näslund Alfredson etc were strongest excluding Canada.

 

[Ajax84]

Is it safe to say that Germany is now part of the big nations?

No.

 

[Czechboy]

Palat-Hertl-Pastrnak
Vrana-Necas-Voracek
Zacha-Krejci-Kubalik
Nosek-Chytil-Zadina
Faksa-Kase

Kempny-Hronek
Zboril-Gudas
Hajek-Rutta
Simek

Mrzak-Vanecech-Rittich

At its peak 20 years ago, the Czech Republic was a top 4 nation, better than Sweden.

Ok his level has dropped a lot. But it's still a great NHL level team with a deeper succession than Germany.

10 goalkeepers selected during the last 5 drafts, defenders with great potential who are arriving (Hamara, Jiricek) and some very talented forwards as prospects (Petr, Jecho, Sale)

In one game, of course Germany can beat Czechia. This is the interest of international competitions. But the hierarchy is very fixed. Czechia is 6th for the current decade.

The good news is that our next 2 pro on pro Olympic teams we will hae a competitive team (assuming our management actually brings our NHL players which they don't always do!)... most those guys above are in their 20's.. and we have some young ones coming (Chytil, Kaut, Lauko, Zadina,Necas, Jenik) that should replace the ones going out (Krejci, Gudas, Voracek).

However, we're not doing enough to get into top 5 and displace anyone OR make it a big 6. Eg. the Slovaks are making some noise and could even medal at WJHC in next 2 years.

 

[Ajax84]

I still see it as a big 5 and that the Czechs are slightly on top of the 'next 5'. I say slightly because a best on best Slovakia, Germany, Swiss, Dane or Latvian team could definitely beat our best on best squad.

You're selling yourself short. The Czech national team is still closer to Finland or Sweden than to Latvia or Denmark. (Yes, Denmark has some elite talent, but they are very top heavy). Czechs are still a contender, albeit last in line, for a 1st place finish in any best-on-best.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Palat-Hertl-Pastrnak
Vrana-Necas-Voracek
Zacha-Krejci-Kubalik
Nosek-Chytil-Zadina
Faksa-Kase

Kempny-Hronek
Zboril-Gudas
Hajek-Rutta
Simek

Mrzak-Vanecech-Rittich

At its peak 20 years ago, the Czech Republic was a top 4 nation, better than Sweden.

Ok his level has dropped a lot. But it's still a great NHL level team with a deeper succession than Germany.

10 goalkeepers selected during the last 5 drafts, defenders with great potential who are arriving (Hamara, Jiricek) and some very talented forwards as prospects (Petr, Jecho, Sale)

In one game, of course Germany can beat Czechia. This is the interest of international competitions. But the hierarchy is very fixed. Czechia is 6th for the current decade.

czech lost to sweden in world cup 1996, olympics 2002 and olympics 2006

 

[Czechboy]

czech lost to sweden in world cup 1996, olympics 2002 and olympics 2006

In fairness... we lost to everybody in 1996.lol

 

[KTl]

Did any DDR-players get included in the German team after the unification? Or conversely, are there any players in today's German team who would play for DDR if there hadn't been the unification?

Jörg Handrick, Torsten Kienass and René Bielke, maybe someone else. But none of them was really part of the team for long.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Here is Germany's Hlinka result in 2021:

View attachment 461120

Didn't only Russia and Slovakia send real teams to that Gretkzy Tournament?

 

[Czechboy]

Didn't only Russia and Slovakia send real teams to that Gretkzy Tournament?

I'm pretty sure Czechs sent their a team... can't speak for Finns or swedes. My short answer is no.