Is FIN closer to CZE than CAN/USA/RUS/SWE?

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Hear me out here.

Forever since I’ve been a hockey fan it’s been looked at as a big five in international hockey with Czechia as the sixth best in a category of their own.

We’ve seen a Czech resurgence of late and Finland has been going the opposite direction.

In terms of top 50 picks the last 3 drafts, Finland has 8 and Czechia has 7. I think it’s likely after 2025 that Czechia will have more for the last 4 drafts. Finland is starting to hover around low teens for total draft picks most years.

Last year was an exception with 18, although it was talked up for years as their best draft in a long time (and you still saw a lot of disappointing fallers like Kiviharju, Vaisanen, Muhonen, and Vinni). Finland has only had 4 first round picks the last 4 years with the highest going 14th. Czechia also has 4 in the last 4 years with their highest pick being 6th.

Could we see more total Czechia picks and top 50 picks for 2025? I think there’s a good chance.

Is Finland closer to keeping up with Canada, USA, Russia, and Sweden for producing players or are we starting to see them fall back into a tier with Czechia?

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[Hockeyville USA]

Yep. Czechs have had a huge resurgence, while Finland has dipped a bit again after their glory run in the 2010s. I think the Czech league is much closer in quality to Liiga than the average hardcore fan would believe. And while Finnish junior is still better than Czech junior, it's not a big gap. People think Finland and Sweden are quite close in talent level (probably because they get lumped in together due to geographic proximity), but Sweden is still pretty far ahead of Finland in terms of producing players. Sweden gets underrated a bit simply because they don't win the World Junior much.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

I dunno Finland always does well internationally. You could argue they are third or fourth based on team success

 

[Czechboy]

I dunno Finland always does well internationally. You could argue they are third or fourth based on team success

I agree but they didn't place in one tourney last year and won't in this year's Hlinka.

 

[Czechboy]

Yep. Czechs have had a huge resurgence, while Finland has dipped a bit again after their glory run in the 2010s. I think the Czech league is much closer in quality to Liiga than the average hardcore fan would believe. And while Finnish junior is still better than Czech junior, it's not a big gap. People think Finland and Sweden are quite close in talent level (probably because they get lumped in together due to geographic proximity), but Sweden is still pretty far ahead of Finland in terms of producing players. Sweden gets underrated a bit simply because they don't win the World Junior much.

Shockingly.. Extraliga is on the rise right now. Doubt it will continue to rise but this coming season. Is strong for Extraliga standards.

 

[Czechboy]

And fwiw.. I'm hoping Czechs are closing the gap and joining Finland in the big 5.

They are on a small downturn that could self correct quickly. They could legit win the four nations cup coming up and the 2026 Olympics as their current NHL crop is damn good.

I think it's just a blip for them while also hoping it's more than a blip for us.lol

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

My NHL Date Batabase (Best Squad 3 GK, 8 DF, 14 FW - Total Rating) :

1 Canada 2233
2 USA 2225
3 Sweden 2174
4 Russia 2159
5 Finland 2110
6 Czechia 2018
7 Switzerland 1937
8 Germany 1875
9 Slovakia 1869
10 Belarus 1738

On the other hand in the future (10/15 years), yes Finland will be slightly ahead of Czechia. Draft 2025 will be very bad for Finland.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Finland rarely seems to produce the superstar skill forwards but they produce a ton of gritty, two way guys, and that works well in international tournaments for them.

The Czechs had a significant downturn in the 2000s, but have seen an uptick over the past decade or so.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Kind of sad to see they're struggling to build on the success of the 2010s. Really need to refocus on individual skill development.

Finland is also just not that populous of a country. More people live in the Metro area of Toronto than in Finland.

 

[jj cale]

I'll get slayed for this but here goes anyway.

When the halcyon days were in full sing I warned Finnish fans that becoming one of the big boys is rough and that things would change for them, they would now become the hunted as opposed to the hunters and that they needed to keep a level head if they wanted to stay there. They went full off their head as fans( and I'm not saying all of them but a damn good share of them here), saw some examples of it from their players on the ice (and some in management from interviews I witnessed), it went beyond being proud of their accomplishments to a point where they were now looking down on others and not respecting their foes, hubris is the word and before anyone gets the knives out for me I will plainly admit Canada has engaged in that at times in the past. The difference being that with Canada there is a lot more wiggle room to come to your senses and discard that due to it's population, resources and unmatched hockey culture and proving they could meet challenges time and time again , with Finland it's a lot less forgiving for obvious reasons some of which are the same as just mentioned. All sorts of silly things were being parroted non stop...........best hockey culture, best hockey country in world ( when they hadn't even proven that yet unless you are foolish enough to think a few whc and wjc wins gives you that title) etc etc etc...............it got a little crazy. I don't think they handled things very well their first time being one of the elite in fact I know they didn't.

And with bad attitudes comes complacency which again Finland simply can't afford, no one can afford it and certainly not a country with a population of what? 7 million?

You've got to stay level headed and hungry which I don't think they did, they got to a point they just thought they could trot teams out there and win most of the times..................not so, especially when you now have a bullseye on you.

They became less hungry and now people took their number, beating them was a THING. and geez............you can't antagonize countries like the U.S, Sweden, czech,slovaks and Canada without running into big trouble, they are gonna want your blood. I mean, Canada is ravenous when it comes to hockey, you don't show them a modicum of respect and they are going to redouble their efforts to take you down and they will take you down, it's just the way it is and Finnish hockey and it's fans should have known that, it baffles the mind they couldn't have known it. Just look at how Germany celebrated beating the Finns at the WJC last year, lifes tough at the top!!

No doubt Finland will face this and come back probably stronger then ever but no doubt a lesson has to be learned here and tough and smart bastards that they are I'm sure Finland will have learned it now.

Bring out the daggers and let me have it but this wasn't meant to antagonize, only to give my honest appraisal of what at least partly has happened.

Also, the good news is that a new start has a chance to begin coming right around the corner with their golden generation at this years 4 nations which they have an excellent chance of winning. If they do they should be overjoyed but......................don't take anything for granted this time. Your rivals are too good for that.

 

[JackSlater]

Yes I'd say so. Honestly it's only a recent sort of thing that Finland would be above the Czechs. Finland developed players well in the 2010s and that elevated them but we'll see how things continue.

 

[kudla]

Finland has simply drought out. They had tremendous success in draft and hockey overall, but now dark times are here because a 5 million country can't produce forever

 

[Czechboy]

but have seen an uptick over the past decade or so.

I'm going to suggest the last 3 years or so.

We did have a mini resurgence that was very exciting about 7 years ago

Chytil, Hajek, Zboril, Zadina, Kaut and Necas were all, roughly, in that group

Only Necas remains as an established NHLer.

Now we have 3 years of first rounders and some very encouraging Junior tourneys. However, no guarantee any of these guys become NHL regulars. I obviously hope they all do but we've been floundering for awhile now.

Need a few guys to take off.. either potential top guys like Jiricek , Sale and Kulich or later picks from Blumel, Spacek and Svozil. All are welcome to join the NHL and play full time.lol

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I'm going to suggest the last 3 years or so.

We did have a mini resurgence that was very exciting about 7 years ago

Chytil, Hajek, Zboril, Zadina, Kaut and Necas were all, roughly, in that group

Only Necas remains as an established NHLer.

Now we have 3 years of first rounders and some very encouraging Junior tourneys. However, no guarantee any of these guys become NHL regulars. I obviously hope they all do but we've been floundering for awhile now.

Need a few guys to take off.. either potential top guys like Jiricek , Sale and Kulich or later picks from Blumel, Spacek and Svozil. All are welcome to join the NHL and play full time.lol

Chytil is an established NHLer. 6 full seasons, the last ruined by injury. But remember the Kid Line with Lafreniere and Kakko already 2 seasons ago.

 

[FinlandPanther]

And yet Finland will still be a top 3 country in hockey as they are pretty much every year.

 

[Czechboy]

And yet Finland will still be a top 3 country in hockey as they are pretty much every year.

What was Finland's last top 3 tourney?

 

[FinlandPanther]

What was Finland's last top 3 tourney?

Last 4 Olympics? Lmao.

 

[Czechboy]

Last 4 Olympics? Lmao.

Unless hockey was played in France this summer.. pretty sure you are using 2 non NHL Olympics from 2022 and 2018 to assert 'top 3' in 2024?

 

[FinlandPanther]

Unless hockey was played in France this summer.. pretty sure you are using 2 non NHL Olympics from 2022 and 2018 to assert 'top 3' in 2024?

It’s jsut funny how little this board actually knows about hockey sometimes. Finland is always a top 3 country internationally even if the roster doesn’t look like it. The Czechs aren’t even close to Finland. I’m not even sure the Czechs are better than the Swiss.

 

[Czechboy]

It’s jsut funny how little this board actually knows about hockey sometimes. Finland is always a top 3 country internationally even if the roster doesn’t look like it. The Czechs aren’t even close to Finland. I’m not even sure the Czechs are better than the Swiss.

And you think this board has no clue about international hockey?

 

[Zine]

I'll get slayed for this but here goes anyway.

When the halcyon days were in full sing I warned Finnish fans that becoming one of the big boys is rough and that things would change for them, they would now become the hunted as opposed to the hunters and that they needed to keep a level head if they wanted to stay there. They went full off their head as fans( and I'm not saying all of them but a damn good share of them here), saw some examples of it from their players on the ice (and some in management from interviews I witnessed), it went beyond being proud of their accomplishments to a point where they were now looking down on others and not respecting their foes, hubris is the word and before anyone gets the knives out for me I will plainly admit Canada has engaged in that at times in the past. The difference being that with Canada there is a lot more wiggle room to come to your senses and discard that due to it's population, resources and unmatched hockey culture and proving they could meet challenges time and time again , with Finland it's a lot less forgiving for obvious reasons some of which are the same as just mentioned. All sorts of silly things were being parroted non stop...........best hockey culture, best hockey country in world ( when they hadn't even proven that yet unless you are foolish enough to think a few whc and wjc wins gives you that title) etc etc etc...............it got a little crazy. I don't think they handled things very well their first time being one of the elite in fact I know they didn't.

And with bad attitudes comes complacency which again Finland simply can't afford, no one can afford it and certainly not a country with a population of what? 7 million?

You've got to stay level headed and hungry which I don't think they did, they got to a point they just thought they could trot teams out there and win most of the times..................not so, especially when you now have a bullseye on you.

They became less hungry and now people took their number, beating them was a THING. and geez............you can't antagonize countries like the U.S, Sweden, czech,slovaks and Canada without running into big trouble, they are gonna want your blood. I mean, Canada is ravenous when it comes to hockey, you don't show them a modicum of respect and they are going to redouble their efforts to take you down and they will take you down, it's just the way it is and Finnish hockey and it's fans should have known that, it baffles the mind they couldn't have known it. Just look at how Germany celebrated beating the Finns at the WJC last year, lifes tough at the top!!

No doubt Finland will face this and come back probably stronger then ever but no doubt a lesson has to be learned here and tough and smart bastards that they are I'm sure Finland will have learned it now.

Bring out the daggers and let me have it but this wasn't meant to antagonize, only to give my honest appraisal of what at least partly has happened.

Also, the good news is that a new start has a chance to begin coming right around the corner with their golden generation at this years 4 nations which they have an excellent chance of winning. If they do they should be overjoyed but......................don't take anything for granted this time. Your rivals are too good for that.

What do a bunch of Finnish fans on a message board have to do with their development system, let alone any of their players?

 

[jj cale]

What do a bunch of Finnish fans on a message board have to do with their development system, let alone any of their players?

It's an attitude and it's not just the fans.

Hey, I knew it wouldn't be popular, my takes often aren't but they're mine.

 

[NyQuil]

The Finns are a small hockey country, and like smaller countries in football (e.g. Portugal, Belgium, Iceland, Wales) they can have a strong generation but it’s hard to maintain that talent level into the next like the larger countries can with their larger pools of players.

 

[Zine]

It's an attitude and it's not just the fans.

Hey, I knew it wouldn't be popular, my takes often aren't but they're mine.

To claim Finnish Hockey has an attitude problem based on a contingent of Finnish HF posters is just…. weird.

And what do you mean it’s not just the fans? Do you have insight into players, coaches and executives no one else does?

Your opinions don’t need to be popular, but at least back them up with something other than your own personal stereotypes.
That’s not cool. .

 

[jj cale]

To claim Finnish Hockey has an attitude problem based on a contingent of Finnish HF posters is just…. weird.

And what do you mean it’s not just the fans with attitudes? Do you have insight into players, coaches, executives no one else does?

Your opinions don’t need to be popular, but at least back them up with something other than your own personal stereotypes.
That’s not cool. .

oh well. I don't give a f***