Is FIN closer to CZE than CAN/USA/RUS/SWE?

[Dingo]

It's an attitude and it's not just the fans.

Hey, I knew it wouldn't be popular, my takes often aren't but they're mine.

I didnt read your monstrous post, but if you are guessing that Finland, in general, got a swollen head over their success, I'd have to say that's my guess, too.

It comes and goes in waves. Countries rise and fall. Canada had run there were no one could catch them, then we dipped for a few years and then came back.

so true. Its just that with Canada (and now the USA) the population of hockey players is so large that even bad crops field competitive rosters

 

[FinlandPanther]

Lol this is why I have trouble taking Finns seriously on here

Well you’re xenophobic so not shocking lol.

Attempting to use two tournaments where the competition was dramatically watered down as a "gotcha" is quite the play

I mean if you’re going to act like Finland hasn’t been a good country internationally then you need to actually learn “anything” about hockey.

 

[Fil]

It’s jsut funny how little this board actually knows about hockey sometimes. Finland is always a top 3 country internationally even if the roster doesn’t look like it. The Czechs aren’t even close to Finland. I’m not even sure the Czechs are better than the Swiss.

We are world Champs?

 

[theVladiator]

I have tabulated the number of NHL players by country, only counting "meaningful depth". My criteria were >= 18mins/game for D, >= 15mins/game for F, and >= 40 games for G.

COUNTRY	TOTAL	FORWARDS	DEFENSEMEN	GOALIES
Canada	174	102	63	9
USA	116	63	45	8
Sweden	41	21	16	4
Russia	29	14	8	7
Finland	23	14	6	3
Czechia	11	6	3	2
Switzerland	8	5	3	0
Slovakia	4	1	3	0
Germany	4	3	1	0

 

[bigdog16]

Well you’re xenophobic so not shocking lol.


I mean if you’re going to act like Finland hasn’t been a good country internationally then you need to actually learn “anything” about hockey.

Your comments here are proving my point for me lol. Keep going

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Attempting to use two tournaments where the competition was dramatically watered down as a "gotcha" is quite the play

Finland has won a medal 6 times (so top 3) in the last 8 Olympic tournaments. And one of the two times that wasn't the case was in 2018 without NHL players. Canada is 5, Russia 4, Sweden 3, USA 2, Czechia 2, Slovakia 0, Other 0.

5 medals in 6 tournaments with NHLers.

Finnish pride on this subject is legitimate.

 

[FinlandPanther]

Your comments here are proving my point for me lol. Keep going

I’ve made my point already. You literally go in any Finnish thread to spew vitriol. It’s kind of sad but sometimes people need their little wins so if that how you achieve happiness I can’t judge.

Finland has won a medal 6 times (so top 3) in the last 8 Olympic tournaments. And one of the two times that wasn't the case was in 2018 without NHL players. Canada is 5, Russia 4, Sweden 3, USA 2, Czechia 2, Slovakia 0, Other 0.

5 medals in 6 tournaments with NHLers.

Finnish pride on this subject is legitimate.

Thank you. Literally the perfect post on this thread. No Finn is saying we are the best. We’re just saying we’re one of the best

 

[BusQuets]

The amount of NHL players is not the best way to compare countries. For example Sweden only has one or two forwards that have the talent of Barkov, Rantanen, Aho, Hintz or even Laine. Yet they have double the NHLers. Finland also have the best defenseman in Heiskanen atm.

 

[BusQuets]

It's an attitude and it's not just the fans.

Hey, I knew it wouldn't be popular, my takes often aren't but they're mine.

Finnish arrogance is earned though. They have the most Olympic medals out of last 8 olympics. Only one they didn't win one was one without NHLers. Not even Canada can match.

 

[jj cale]

Canada can match that, they exceed it. They have 3 glympic golds with the best players playing, no one else has more then 1 and Finland has none. Finland would gladly give up any of those silvers and bronze in those competitions for just one gold in them with the best players in the world all playing, you know it as well as I.

sure Finland they can be proud of their accomplishments, but they shouldn't go overboard. With all due respect I think an example of that is your post.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

The amount of NHL players is not the best way to compare countries. For example Sweden only has one or two forwards that have the talent of Barkov, Rantanen, Aho, Hintz or even Laine. Yet they have double the NHLers. Finland also have the best defenseman in Heiskanen atm.

William Nylander, Filip Forsberg, Elias Pettersson, Jesper Bratt, Joel Eriksson Ek, Mika Zibanejad, Gustav Nyquist, Adrian Kempe reach Hintz/Laine level with 87 or +.

Hedman is better than Heiskanen by far. Karlsson and Dahlin are better too.

 

[Czechboy]

Thought this was a 2024 chat. Didn't realize Olympic medals from the 90s were a determining factor in 2024.

In that case.. Czechs won the best on best in 1998 and another one in 2005 (lockout World's) so I guess nothing is wrong with our program either.

I think some posters 'ready Finns suck and have always sucked'.

I read 'in 2024, Finn's are seemingly on a decline or disconnect'

The proof was given using draft picks and developed players recently (no need to bring up Kurri or Selanne here).

I'll add that Finland never placed last year and now bombed out of Hlinka (3 goals scored in 3 games, lost to Germany, Czechs and US). So no top 3 at U18, U20, Worlds or Hlinka's. That is the concern not Olympic success in 1998, 2002, 2006 and 2010.

I will circle back though.. I think it's a small blip that will self correct quickly. To me it's a playing style issue.

 

[Albatros]

Karlsson and Dahlin are better too.

...yet Heiskanen received over 14 times more Norris votes than those two combined, despite missing a bunch of games.

 

[Fil]

Thought this was a 2024 chat. Didn't realize Olympic medals from the 90s were a determining factor in 2024.

In that case.. Czechs won the best on best in 1998 and another one in 2005 (lockout World's) so I guess nothing is wrong with our program either.

I think some posters 'ready Finns suck and have always sucked'.

I read 'in 2024, Finn's are seemingly on a decline or disconnect'

The proof was given using draft picks and developed players recently (no need to bring up Kurri or Selanne here).

I'll add that Finland never placed last year and now bombed out of Hlinka (3 goals scored in 3 games, lost to Germany, Czechs and US). So no top 3 at U18, U20, Worlds or Hlinka's. That is the concern not Olympic success in 1998, 2002, 2006 and 2010.

I will circle back though.. I think it's a small blip that will self correct quickly. To me it's a playing style issue.

In that case since the Czechs are 13x World Champs and have a NHL OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL everyone in this form can go f**k themselves lol

 

[Czechboy]

In that case since the Czechs are 13x World Champs and have a NHL OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL everyone in this form can go f**k themselves lol

It's funny because I maintain the Swiss are in a lot of trouble. They are like us around 2005.. some good senior results and excellent players. But the last several junior years are not good. Very few drafted players. So they look great today... Just like we did in 2005. Ironically our downturn started right around the 1998 birth year. Our worst age group in history accompanied by our greatest result.

Back to topic.. Finland is nowhere near as bad as we were about to become in 2010 to 2020. They are nowhere near the potential Swiss fall off either.

Small twekes.. a summit and they'll be back. I do think they could get gold at the next two events.. 4 nations and 26 Olympics

 

[Fil]

It's funny because I maintain the Swiss are in a lot of trouble. They are like us around 2005.. some good senior results and excellent players. But the last several junior years are not good. Very few drafted players. So they look great today... Just like we did in 2005. Ironically our downturn started right around the 1998 birth year. Our worst age group in history accompanied by our greatest result.

Back to topic.. Finland is nowhere near as bad as we were about to become in 2010 to 2020. They are nowhere near the potential Swiss fall off either.

Small twekes.. a summit and they'll be back. I do think they could get gold at the next two events.. 4 nations and 26 Olympics

I can't name one good Swiss junior player right now lol.
But yes Fins are not in deep trouble yet but I think adjustments have to be made.
Like a lot of finland users have said before they can't get comfortable or it will be a 2013-2021 Czech 2.0

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

...yet Heiskanen received over 14 times more Norris votes than those two combined, despite missing a bunch of games.

I take Dahlin before him in a fantasy draft. Karlsson won the Norris last year. Its 2023/24 season was in a very different context compared to San Jose.

Anyway, if I follow your argument, Forsling had twice as many points as Heiskanen. Hedman 5 times more.

 

[FinPanda]

Thought this was a 2024 chat. Didn't realize Olympic medals from the 90s were a determining factor in 2024.

In that case.. Czechs won the best on best in 1998 and another one in 2005 (lockout World's) so I guess nothing is wrong with our program either.

I think some posters 'ready Finns suck and have always sucked'.

I read 'in 2024, Finn's are seemingly on a decline or disconnect'

The proof was given using draft picks and developed players recently (no need to bring up Kurri or Selanne here).

I'll add that Finland never placed last year and now bombed out of Hlinka (3 goals scored in 3 games, lost to Germany, Czechs and US). So no top 3 at U18, U20, Worlds or Hlinka's. That is the concern not Olympic success in 1998, 2002, 2006 and 2010.

I will circle back though.. I think it's a small blip that will self correct quickly. To me it's a playing style issue.

I really feel like we (Finns) are about to face dark times in Finnish hockey. Like I've said previously on this board. We got so satisfied so we forgot how to improve ourselves to stay near the top. Canada, Sweden, Russia and USA has always been superior to us because of how much more skilled they are. We had success, but it was because they got carried by a few super juniors and good coaching on adult level. It says at all that last two years of Jalonen coaching it seemed like his stomach was full and so were the players so used to winning that they didn't work hard enough. Finnish hockey association is not making it any easier and Liiga has too many teams.

We had a pretty good run from 2016-2022 I guess but without hard work (and also because of the population) is hard to produce top players year after year. Especially if they aren't given the tools to improve and learn. We are sooooooo far behind in individual skill against other top 4 countries. Skill has never really been our recipe for success (except 2016 WJC team). Could say we were lucky and now our luck ran out.

 

[Czechboy]

I really feel like we (Finns) are about to face dark times in Finnish hockey. Like I've said previously on this board. We got so satisfied so we forgot how to improve ourselves to stay near the top. Canada, Sweden, Russia and USA has always been superior to us because of how much more skilled they are. We had success, but it was because they got carried by a few super juniors and good coaching on adult level. It says at all that last two years of Jalonen coaching it seemed like his stomach was full and so were the players so used to winning that they didn't work hard enough. Finnish hockey association is not making it any easier and Liiga has too many teams.

We had a pretty good run from 2016-2022 I guess but without hard work (and also because of the population) is hard to produce top players year after year. Especially if they aren't given the tools to improve and learn. We are sooooooo far behind in individual skill against other top 4 countries. Skill has really been our recipe for success (except 2016 WJC team). Could say we were lucky and now I luck ran out.

I'm still on 'blip'. Or the 'nation of 5 mill will have bigger ups and downs'.

That 2016 to 2022 run was a work of art!

I really do think Finn's could win 4 nations and 2026 Olympics.

World's went poorly but a lot of very good Finn's were left behind as Kari (which is a right he earned) closed the doors before game 1. And it was 1-0 in the elimination game so Kari was close.

One thing that may hurt is that some first rounders simply didn't pan out and I can totally relate to that (Kaut, Zboril, Zadina and Vrana come to mind).

 

[FinPanda]

I'm still on 'blip'. Or the 'nation of 5 mill will have bigger ups and downs'.

That 2016 to 2022 run was a work of art!

I really do think Finn's could win 4 nations and 2026 Olympics.

World's went poorly but a lot of very good Finn's were left behind as Kari (which is a right he earned) closed the doors before game 1. And it was 1-0 in the elimination game so Kari was close.

One thing that may hurt is that some first rounders simply didn't pan out and I can totally relate to that (Kaut, Zboril, Zadina and Vrana come to mind).

Jukka you mean I guess

But yeah, I doubt we will win olympics or 4 nations, but will be exciting to at least face some best-on-best teams.

 

[Czechboy]

Jukka you mean I guess

But yeah, I doubt we will win olympics or 4 nations, but will be exciting to at least face some best-on-best teams.

Apologies!

Your best on best roster is ridiculously good...

Heisk will play a lot
Rinne is elite
Then all those forwards

 

[FinPanda]

Apologies!

Your best on best roster is ridiculously good...

Heisk will play a lot
Rinne is elite
Then all those forwards

Yeah Rinne was amazing while he was playing. I thought he retired already though.

Sorry I know you mean Saros. It's getting late and Czechs are doing good in Hlinka so I get it

 

[Czechboy]

Yeah Rinne was amazing while he was playing. I thought he retired already though.

Sorry I know you mean Saros. It's getting late and Czechs are doing good in Hlinka so I get it

Yup, had a few.. be glad I didn't say Kiprusoff!

 

[Eye of Ra]

Czechia and Finland have overtaken Sweden

 

[Eye of Ra]

The amount of NHL players is not the best way to compare countries. For example Sweden only has one or two forwards that have the talent of Barkov, Rantanen, Aho, Hintz or even Laine. Yet they have double the NHLers. Finland also have the best defenseman in Heiskanen atm.

Määttä, Hakanpää, Lindell and Jokiharju is better than any Swede D aswell.
Hedman and Karlsson have regressed alot.