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Is Erik Karlsson in fact the best Swedish player still?

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Is Erik Karlsson in fact the best Swedish player still?

  • Yes

  • Borderline

  • He’s the most talented but not the best anymore

  • No

Results are only viewable after voting.
matsqq said:
But Erik had positive numbers in +/- in both the series and in the stanley cup finals that year. Do you seomehow mean that Erik was responsible for what happened when he was off the ice too ? He should have prevented goals then too ?
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Edited late but it’s more to the point suggesting that the team found success because of a coach’s correct evaluation. They found success on a fluke run wherein an offensive dynamo outpaced his deficiencies

I’ll cop to being disorganized in thought, wasn’t intended to be a direct progression as much as “success” being questionable due to fluke run> coach assessment didn’t lead to meaningful success> supposed meaningful success doesn’t validate supposed capability
 
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zenthusiast said:
considering the high point of that success was a team with a negative goal differential both in the regular season and the playoffs going to a conference final I think it’s fair to question their star defenseman’s ability to prevent goals. A sublime talent in two phases of the game can still be a liability in the third

E: rather, I suppose it’s more fitting to question whether that success stemmed from proper coaching judgment and keying on that
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Ottawa playoffs 2017: 47GF 50GA

Karlsson ON: 32GF 16 GA
Karlsson OFF: 15 GF 34 GA
28:08 AVTOI

on the ice for 10/11 GWG.

that team was literally a bottom 5 roster without Karlsson.

and yea every coach realized that they had a generational talent and the only way a budget team like the senators would find success is if they played Karlsson as much as humanly possible.

Karlsson on= elite two way 5 on 5 team
Karlsson off= dog trash 5 on 5 team
 
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Agent Zuuuub said:
Ottawa playoffs 2017: 47GF 50GA

Karlsson ON: 32GF 16 GA
Karlsson OFF: 15 GF 34 GA
28:08 AVTOI

on the ice for 10/11 GWG.

that team was literally a bottom 5 roster without Karlsson.

and yea every coach realized that they had a generational talent and the only way a budget team like the senators would find success is if they played Karlsson as much as humanly possible.

Karlsson on= elite two way 5 on 5 team
Karlsson off= dog trash 5 on 5 team
Click to expand...

A lot of people have a lot of misconceptions about that particular run.

Consider the shot differentials with the Bergeron line and Karlsson both on and off of the ice. You can see the clear divide I’m talking about in both instances:

Embedded Image


From a pure territorial advantage, both units are picking apart the opposition (note: scoring chances are strikingly similar from a percentage basis). But the disparity on the Karlsson side is the clear takeaway here. Boston is getting absolutely caved in whenever he’s on the ice, and that’s close to half of the game (he’s averaging close to 28 minutes a night). That puts an incredible amount of pressure on the Bruins to try to win the minutes he’s not out there. If the goals aren’t coming – and they aren’t right now for Boston – you’re in a bad spot.

A lot has been made about Karlsson’s scoring (he already has five assists in the series, a few of which have been of the highlight-reel variety), but the real hallmark of this series is in the data above. Boston simply can’t sustain offensive zone pressure when he’s out there. If they lose the puck, he recovers it and instantly breaks out – something the rest of the Ottawa defensive corps struggles with. Far too frequently he takes a high-pressure situation in the defensive zone and turns it into offensive zone time.
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www.tsn.ca

Karlsson is dominating the Bruins - TSN.ca

The ice is tilting toward Ottawa every time the Senators captain comes over the boards in the first-round series, Travis Yost writes.
www.tsn.ca www.tsn.ca

Anyway, he's not that guy anymore, but clearly people have forgotten how dominant he was in 2017 at both ends of the ice.
 
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NyQuil said:
A lot of people have a lot of misconceptions about that particular run.



www.tsn.ca

Karlsson is dominating the Bruins - TSN.ca

The ice is tilting toward Ottawa every time the Senators captain comes over the boards in the first-round series, Travis Yost writes.
www.tsn.ca www.tsn.ca

Anyway, he's not that guy anymore, but clearly people have forgotten how dominant he was in 2017 at both ends of the ice.
Click to expand...
I'm convinced Karlsson wins the Conn Smythe that year if the Senators score the goal in game 7 OT instead of the Penguins. Regardless who actually wins the SCF.
 
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Erik Alfredsson said:
He's still extremely talented. I imagine he'll end up being Sweden's best player in this tournament.
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Love watching him in best on best when he can play to his strengths and not have to be mr everything

I always said that for all the flash it was all the small subtle plays that were actually his strength and in best on best those plays get even more mileage
 
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Erik Alfredsson said:
He's still extremely talented. I imagine he'll end up being Sweden's best player in this tournament.
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Seems unlikely as he was 6th in ES MPG in that first game last for all Swedish Dmen.

He played fine but the OP is on EK65, a little known toxin that is released any time Karlsson has a good game and clouds overall judgment.

Feels nice but don't drive or operate heavy equipment.
 
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Sasha Orlov said:
Literally all this shows is that he is good offensively and can break out of the D zone with his offensive skills
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Actually it shows that when he's on the ice, the other team cannot register shots on net relative to when he isn’t.

Its hard to score when you’re in your own end the entire game, or you can’t get any offensive zone time because EK is moving it out so effectively.

Dave Tippett said:
Phoenix Coyotes Coach Dave Tippett once discussed a particular issue he was having in analyzing his defensemen, while he was coaching in juniors.

“We had a player that was supposed to be a great, shut-down defenseman. He was supposedly the be-all, end-all of defensemen. But when you did a 10-game analysis of him, you found out he was defending all the time because he can’t move the puck.

Then, we had another guy who supposedly couldn’t defend a lick. Well, he was defending only 20 percent of the time because he’s making good plays out of our end. He may not be the strongest defender, but he’s only doing it 20 percent of the time. So the equation works out better the other way. I ended up trading the other defenseman.”
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You might figure this out one day depending on how Lane Hutson develops.
 
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NyQuil said:
Actually it shows that when he's on the ice, the other team cannot register shots on net relative to when he isn’t.

Its hard to score when you’re in your own end the entire game, or you can’t get any offensive zone time because EK moving it out.
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I agree with this
 
wetcoast said:
He played fine but the OP is on EK65, a little known toxin that is released any time Karlsson has a good game and clouds overall judgment.

Feels nice but don't drive or operate heavy equipment.
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Let's juxtapose this with yourself that has been consistently shitting on EK on this site over the years.

Just for good measure.
 
NyQuil said:
Actually it shows that when he's on the ice, the other team cannot register shots on net relative to when he isn’t.

Its hard to score when you’re in your own end the entire game, or you can’t get any offensive zone time because EK is moving it out so effectively.



You might figure this out one day depending on how Lane Hutson develops.
Click to expand...

20% of the time??

Let's not go overboard here. In the NHL, even the very best OFD on the best teams getting a flood of ozone starts are still seeing at least 40% of the shot attempts against.

But I wholeheartedly agree with the notion of 'defensive dman', especially while developing, often equals 'he's always in his own zone by design.'
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
20% of the time??

Let's not go overboard here. In the NHL, even the very best OFD on the best teams getting a flood of ozone starts are still seeing at least 40% of the shot attempts against.

But I wholeheartedly agree with the notion of 'defensive dman', especially while developing, often equals 'he's always in his own zone by design.'
Click to expand...

I think Dave Tippett may have been a bit hyperbolic as opposed to trying to be precise.
 
pretty sad actually that the caliber of player he is/was and outside of a cinderalla run in 17 he has been on absolutely terrible teams.
 
One thing that is clear from these comments is that you can tell who watched the Sweden game and who didn’t.
 
Michael Farkas said:
What specifically about Sullivan's "system" holds him back?
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Sullivan's system encourages defenseman to make quick passes to forwards and let the forwards carry the puck. Karlsson is at his best when he's carrying the puck and skating around the ice, but Sullivan's system actively prevents him from doing that.
 
NyQuil said:
A lot of people have a lot of misconceptions about that particular run.



www.tsn.ca

Karlsson is dominating the Bruins - TSN.ca

The ice is tilting toward Ottawa every time the Senators captain comes over the boards in the first-round series, Travis Yost writes.
www.tsn.ca www.tsn.ca

Anyway, he's not that guy anymore, but clearly people have forgotten how dominant he was in 2017 at both ends of the ice.
Click to expand...

I still think Karlsson at his peak had atleast as much impact as a peak Lidstrom, he was just that good. Judging by the numbers you posted and going from memory of watching him that playoff run I don’t think that’s an outlandish opinion either.
 
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authentic said:
I still think Karlsson at his peak had atleast as much impact as a peak Lidstrom, he was just that good. Judging by the numbers you posted and going from memory of watching him that playoff run I don’t think that’s an outlandish opinion either.
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I can reminisce fondly about Karlsson for hours.

I think for Senators fans in particular, it's definitely bittersweet.

The peak for us wasn't actually the 2017 run, although that's when he was most successful during the most important part of the season, but rather the span of games right before the Matt Cooke injury back in 2013. There was a game against Carolina where someone had isolated video of his entire game, and it was remarkable.

I remember saying it was like having an extra player on the ice all the time, because he was fast and agile enough to join the rush and also to get back again in time to defend.

After the Cooke injury, he could never pivot quite the same way again, and he'd get beaten to the outside. It changed the way he played. He'd start skating back, and then he'd pause, and proceed with this very clumsy pivot to skating backwards where he'd lose a lot of his momentum and speed.

In some respects, it made him a little more conservative and cautious (which is hard to believe, I know), which may have helped his overall game by 2017, but I think that would have come with experience and age anyway.

Anyway, those days are long past, but I like to remember them because ultimately hockey is about entertainment and he was the most entertaining player to ever suit up for the Senators.
 
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