Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[GreatGonzo]

Jesus, look in a mirror my brother. All you do is talk shit on Crosby fans. That is literally all you do on HFboards.

Im not Jesus, I’m only one of his helpers

I’ve mocked your opinion instead of coming back with a counter argument? No all you have done is complain about this and that

 

[GreatGonzo]

Took McDavid until year 6 of his career to start to pull away from Sid if we are talking "head to head" from an age perspective.

Coincidentally when Crosby had the concussion issues.

Not an excuse for Sid. Ultimately much like McDavid's championship record, Crosby needs to be judged for what he actually did not what he could've potentially did.

Why is a fault of McDavids for being younger than Crosby? Crosby was still very much a top player in the league when McDavid came in and McDavid hadn’t “pulled away” yet, but still out produced Crosby head to head pretty easily.

Id still take Crosby over McDavid if I was starting a franchise. if I knew nothing about either player I dunno its hard to say. I feel like the hype around Crosby was greater than McDavid but I dunno its hard to remember so long ago.

If you knew nothing about either, you would still pick Crosby? But what are you basing your decision off of if you know nothing about him? His looks?…

 

[Gurglesons]

Why is a fault of McDavids for being younger than Crosby? Crosby was still very much a top player in the league when McDavid came in and McDavid hadn’t “pulled away” yet, but still out produced Crosby head to head pretty easily.

Why are we comparing an 18 year old and a 28 year old?

Oh wait. It’s because you are making the post so it’s anything you can possibly grasp at to discredit Crosby as a player. Forgot.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Why are we comparing an 18 year old and a 28 year old?

Oh wait. It’s because you are making the post so it’s anything you can possibly grasp at to discredit Crosby as a player. Forgot.

Or…now hear me out….thats just how their careers and the match ups overlap?…

You are acting like I’m deliberately using a young McDavid against an “old” Crosby, as if I have any other choice…

So I have no clue how this “discredits” Crosby..

 

[Gurglesons]

Or…now hear me out….thats just how their careers and the match ups overlap?…

You are acting like I’m deliberately using a young McDavid against an “old” Crosby, as if I have any other choice…

So I have no clue how this “discredits” Crosby..

Because comparing a player at 18 - 27 to a player at 28 - 36 is incredibly disingenuous.

But you do you. We know the bit.

 

[wetcoast]

And I was pointing out that "fair-mindedly" adding games/points to anyone's career would significantly alter it. So either open up that hypothetical for everyone in the discussion or no one. Or the best option at all, is just not tinkering at all because as is evident it's already difficult enough to compare actual careers without making shit up for one or the other.

Try to keep up as I was responding to the notion that Crosby wasn't capable when he most certainly was as I pointed out.

No one added anything it was a though exercise that you seem incapable off and it's clear that....

 

[BlueSeal]

Who was the better player

David Krejci

or

Joe Thornton

Only one knew how to win

Folks here seem to love throwing around Krejci's name here for some reason. 23 points in 25 games earned his name on the Cup.

I'm a Blues fan and I absolutely enjoyed going through Jumbo's Sharks to get the Cup. That one was for Perron.

In my mind, the better player is the one that contributed to the team winning. Hockey, at the end of the day, is a team sport and folks rightfully complain how players who should be elite never show up for their team or become ghosts come playoff time.

McDavid, like Jumbo and others are the polar opposite, and they can't even buy a Cup. Legendary players generally have both qualities, they set records/win awards and win it all. From a purely team standpoint, what good's having this guy that can do everything and yet we can't win with him?

That's my criteria for how I tier them and I'll be honest, it's not a fair one but it's how I do it.

About as fair as the organization deciding to help McDavid win, they hired Stan Bowman when they should really be looking to shoot Nurse into the sun, sign a bonafide playoff goaltender and a legit 1D. Those are the Oilers needs over casting the upcoming McDynasty into fuggin darkness by Stan's presence.

 

[wetcoast]

If a player entered the league next season as a 2025 pick and outscored mcdavid by nearly a 4:1 ratio over the next 10 years in their head to head matchups I would certainly reflect on and possibly reconsider my opinion that mcdavid is the best player of his generation

There are reasons to prefer McDavid over Crosby but this has to be one of the weakest ones out there........might as well compare all star game scoring while you are at it.

If bedard outscores mcdavid by a greater than 3:1 ppg ratio In head to head matchups over the next decade I’ll admit that I was an idiot in 2024 and I’ll pay you $100

Fwiw I think mcdavid has 2 more art ross wins in him

We will see

No one needs that they can just view some of your posting history....right?

 

[Video Nasty]

Some things to look out for next season.

Another 100 point season ties McDavid with Dionne for 3rd most all-time (8).

Another season leading in assists ties McDavid with Orr for 2nd most all-time (5).

Another Hart ties him with Shore for 3rd most all-time (4).

Another Art Ross ties him with Howe and Lemieux for 2nd most all-time (6).

Another Lindsay ties him with Gretzky for 1st all-time (5).

Another season leading in PPG moves him into sole possession for 3rd most all-time (6).

If he scores his 18 points in his next 10 regular season games, he will reach 1000 career points in the 3rd fewest games all-time (655 games or less to beat Bossy).

All part of remolding The Big Four into a new Big Five.

 

[Frank Drebin]

There are reasons to prefer McDavid over Crosby but this has to be one of the weakest ones out there........might as well compare all star game scoring while you are at it.


No one needs that they can just view some of your posting history....right?

Any reason for the personal shot?

 

[wetcoast]

Any reason for the personal shot?

I'm in a sarcastic mood tonight it wasn't personal but I apologize if it caused you any harm.

I'm going to skip this thread for a while because nothing is gained in the last 50 pages for anyone IMO.

 

[DitchMarner]

1. A poster who is adamant that Stanley Cups are very important in player comparisons says stats for the two players being discussed really only matter if the players are going against each other and that perhaps no one has posted head-to-head stats for McDavid and Crosby out of fear.

2. Head-to-head stats are posted and people comment on how lopsided they are.

3. Some seem outraged that such stats were ever mentioned in the first place, call them silly and disingenuous and act as if the stats should be stricken from the records altogether.

SMFH.

 

[norrisnick]

Try to keep up as I was responding to the notion that Crosby wasn't capable when he most certainly was as I pointed out.

No one added anything it was a though exercise that you seem incapable off and it's clear that....

I mean... doing something or not doing something is a pretty good indicator of capability. No need to thought exercise the issue.

 

[wetcoast]

I mean... doing something or not doing something is a pretty good indicator of capability. No need to thought exercise the issue.

So you think Crosby was lower in scoring those years to Benn because he was incapable of scoring more points than Benn?

That's where all of this started.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Because comparing a player at 18 - 27 to a player at 28 - 36 is incredibly disingenuous.

But you do you. We know the bit.

Ok, I’m going to try to explain this to you as nicely and as simple as I can….

You can’t match to a 18 year old Crosby with an 18 year old McDavid. Why? That match up never happened, it doesn’t exist. The only match ups we have are the ones where their careers happen to overlap. The head to head match ups were discussed and posted, and of course…you go..”UMMM YOU CANT COMPARE 18 YEAR OLD MCDAVID WITH CROSBY! HES TO OLD!!” But that’s literally the ONLY choice we have.

In the head to head match ups, we have NO OTHER WAY of doing it. So while you love throwing out your big words like “disingenuous.” And complain that I’m doing a “bit.” I’m literally reading stats I’m not manipulating anything, I’m not cherry picking, I’m not picking a certain point that benefits either players, I simply looked at the stats and posted them. Again, sorry if that doesn’t make sense to you…

Also, Stop with the “old” argument. McDavid hadn’t peaked yet and Crosby was still very much considered one of the top players in the world still. It’s not doing Crosby ANY disservice to compare him to McDavid in 2017 and 2018( that’s why I picked those two years because…funny enough, they happen to benefit Crosby)…you just see it that way because you are emotional and get frustrated when you can’t have an argument go your way.

I hope this helped you.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ok, I’m going to try to explain this to you as nicely and as simple as I can….

You can’t match to a 18 year old Crosby with an 18 year old McDavid. Why? That match up never happened, it doesn’t exist. The only match ups we have are the ones where their careers happen to overlap. The head to head match ups were discussed and posted, and of course…you go..”UMMM YOU CANT COMPARE 18 YEAR OLD MCDAVID WITH CROSBY! HES TO OLD!!” But that’s literally the ONLY choice we have.

In the head to head match ups, we have NO OTHER WAY of doing it. So while you love throwing out your big words like “disingenuous.” And complain that I’m doing a “bit.” I’m literally reading stats

Also, Stop with the “old” argument. McDavid hasn’t peaked yet and Crosby was still very much considered one of the top players in the world still. It’s not doing Crosby ANY disservice to compare him to McDavid in 2017 and 2018, you just see it that way because you are emotional and get frustrated when you can’t have an argument go your way.

I hope this helped you.

Comparing a player at 18 - 27 to a player at 28 - 36 is incredibly disingenuous.

You know this.

Not emotional or frustrated. You're a fool and everything you post is just another step towards your insane obsession to make Crosby seem like a lesser player than he is.

Excited to see you keep trying to push some narrative over another 4 years in every single Crosby thread.

 

[norrisnick]

So you think Crosby was lower in scoring those years to Benn because he was incapable of scoring more points than Benn?

That's where all of this started.

If Crosby was capable of beating Benn those years, he probably should have gone out and beaten him.

*shrug*

 

[Gurglesons]

If Crosby was capable of beating Benn those years, he probably should have gone out and beaten him.

*shrug*

Wish McDavid could beat Nikita Kucherov.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Folks here seem to love throwing around Krejci's name here for some reason. 23 points in 25 games earned his name on the Cup.

I'm a Blues fan and I absolutely enjoyed going through Jumbo's Sharks to get the Cup. That one was for Perron.

In my mind, the better player is the one that contributed to the team winning. Hockey, at the end of the day, is a team sport and folks rightfully complain how players who should be elite never show up for their team or become ghosts come playoff time.

McDavid, like Jumbo and others are the polar opposite, and they can't even buy a Cup. Legendary players generally have both qualities, they set records/win awards and win it all. From a purely team standpoint, what good's having this guy that can do everything and yet we can't win with him?

That's my criteria for how I tier them and I'll be honest, it's not a fair one but it's how I do it.

About as fair as the organization deciding to help McDavid win, they hired Stan Bowman when they should really be looking to shoot Nurse into the sun, sign a bonafide playoff goaltender and a legit 1D. Those are the Oilers needs over casting upcoming McDynasty into fuggin darkness by Stan's presence.

Did you just compare McDavids playoffs to Joe Thornton….

 

[wetcoast]

If Crosby was capable of beating Benn those years, he probably should have gone out and beaten him.

*shrug*

Funny that you can't answer such a simple question as pretty much everyone knows what the answer is there.

Benn scored 7 more points in 7 more games this is really proving too hard for you right?

Wish McDavid could beat Nikita Kucherov.

They won't get it be prepared for 4 more pages of...........

 

[Gurglesons]

Why do people have to be disenginous about this argument?

It's pretty easy.

Either you value championships as a definitive criteria to justifying an elite player's legacy or you don't.

Fine with either view point in my book. Why do we have to act like Crosby losing a Ross to Benn or being outscored in his late 20s while McDavid was in his prime head to head is the reason?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Wish McDavid could beat Nikita Kucherov.

Kucherov is the best russian player of all time. One of only 5 players in history to record 100 assists in a season.

Healthy, full 82 game seasons both times he beat McDavid.

But injuries happen in hockey so full credit to Kucherov for beating Mcdavid both seasons.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Comparing a player at 18 - 27 to a player at 28 - 36 is incredibly disingenuous.

You know this.

Not emotional or frustrated. You're a fool and everything you post is just another step towards your insane obsession to make Crosby seem like a lesser player than he is.

Excited to see you keep trying to push some narrative over another 4 years in every single Crosby thread.

You really love that word, yet have no idea what it means…

“Not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.”

So tell me, what is “insincere” about my stats…what am I pretending? Seriously…what part of my post didnt make sense to you?..

resorting to name calling I see, and yet you aren’t frustrated or emotional?

Yes im such a fool posting the head to head match ups that didn’t give you the outcome you wanted….so you whine and complain about it.

Why do people have to be disenginous about this argument?

It's pretty easy.

Either you value championships as a definitive criteria to justifying an elite player's legacy or you don't.

Fine with either view point in my book. Why do we have to act like Crosby losing a Ross to Benn or being outscored in his late 20s while McDavid was in his prime head to head is the reason?

Why continue using a word that you clearly can’t use correctly…

 

[Frank Drebin]

Why do people have to be disenginous about this argument?

It's pretty easy.

Either you value championships as a definitive criteria to justifying an elite player's legacy or you don't.

Fine with either view point in my book. Why do we have to act like Crosby losing a Ross to Benn or being outscored in his late 20s while McDavid was in his prime head to head is the reason?

Well then you have to be consistent

Neidermayer > bourque
Ryan O'reilly and david krejci > eric Lindros

But o reilly and krejci aren't elite players so the comparison doesnt hold water

So you dont have to be elite in order to win a cup

unless youre crosby I think?

 

[norrisnick]

Funny that you can't answer such a simple question as pretty much everyone knows what the answer is there.

Benn scored 7 more points in 7 more games this is really proving too hard for you right?

If Crosby were capable of outscoring Benn those years, don't you think he would have? Or are you suggesting he simply decided to not score? Or he simply decided to just not play those 7 games?