Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[GreatGonzo]

kinda stupid to have a Flyers logo in ur avatar if your not a fan.........

well I hope you enjoy all the personal awards because winning a cup is the whole reason to play.

he's not above Crosby 9 seasons into his career. not yet. guy hasnt even passed Crosby in points and hasn;'t won what really matters a cup.

and yeah you have been basically whining and going wayyy over the top with your arguments, going on 3 or 4 days now of pure nonsense with you having me explain multiple times clear English. Ive had enough of seeing your name pop up.

we are not going to agree. live with it


how do you bump out the greats without passing them in points or winning a cup when all the greats have won? it makes no sense. McDavid is an incredible player but his career is still very young.

It’s also kinda stupid to attack someone for being a flyers fan just because they disagree with you

I love how you called McDavids accomplishments “personal awards,” but then say he hasn’t passed Crosby because of a TEAM award….

you can call it “whining” all you want you clearly just didn’t like having your own argument thrown at you.

 

[pi314]

Points points points.

Never mind that scoring went up when they shrunk goalie equipment.

Nobody got better when a game went from 3-2 to 4-3.

Unless you also believe that William Nylander and JT Miller would be the best player in the world 10 years ago.

Some years there were only 5 guys who broke 80 points. 1 single player broke 100 points. Many years nobody.

It’s easy to hoodwink people with raw point totals… especially without context.

Winning is not so easy to do. In any era.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

It’s also kinda stupid to attack someone for being a flyers fan just because they disagree with you

I love how you called McDavids accomplishments “personal awards,” but then say he hasn’t passed Crosby because of a TEAM award….

you can call it “whining” all you want you clearly just didn’t like having your own argument thrown at you.

well.... PIT and PHI fans dont like each other its pretty simple to figure out man

no that's not it at all. been 4 days now. you figure u would have convinced me by now and given up but your not. your arguments are flawed.

McDavid straight up has not done enough to warrant placing over Crosby or even the greats. you may disagree but there are alot of people who agree with me. McDavid will never be over Crosby on a consensus list this early. not like how Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr and Howe are. actually Ive seen Lindstrom and Hasek enter the top 5 on some lists

so basically it's your opinion vs my opinion.

 

[Video Nasty]

It’s easy to hoodwink people with raw point totals… especially without context.

I would say it’s easy to hoodwink people when you preach context for one player and ignore context for the other, but you’re about as subtle as a clown in a graveyard.

Raw point totals have nothing to do with Crosby finishing behind a player like Benn two years in a row while still just 27 and 28.

Please, tell us more yarns about how Crosby could have, should have, would have. It never gets old hearing about The Little Engine That Couldn’t Win More Than One Hart And Art Ross Past Age 19.

 

[norrisnick]

Points points points.

It’s easy to hoodwink people with raw point totals… especially without context.

Who is talking about raw point totals. Ignore raw point totals.

McDavid finished first 5 times.
Crosby finished first 2 times.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

McDavid is inarguably far more dynamic offensively than Crosby, but I'm not really sure he's even the overall better player yet, let alone in a tier above.

Crosby had a consistency to his game where even if he wasn't scoring, he was still tilting the ice in the Penguins favor every time he was on the ice. McDavid is more like this weapon that's always in attack mode, but when the puck his on his stick everybody drops what they're doing and glues their attention to him, and sometimes that results in him not making the right play, which doesn't matter that much because he makes about 20 plays per game usually with an individual effort, so even if a quarter of them pay off he'll end up with 3 points on the night and get his team the W.

Crosby will just grind you out over the course of a game where you have to be perfect against him, because he's going to be perfect against you, score one goal and win the game 1-0.

 

[PainForShane]

I would say it’s easy to hoodwink people when you preach context for one player and ignore context for the other, but you’re about as subtle as a clown in a graveyard.

Raw point totals have nothing to do with Crosby finishing behind a player like Benn two years in a row while still just 27 and 28.

Please, tell us more yarns about how Crosby could have, should have, would have. It never gets old hearing about The Little Engine That Couldn’t Win More Than One Hart And Art Ross Past Age 19.

Bro. Crosby was an elite point producer for his entire career, and he led his team to three cups and an Olympic Gold Medal.

Please, tell us more yarns about how McDavid could have, should have, would have. It never gets old hearing about The Little Engine That Couldn’t Win a Stanley Cup. What a nonsense argument you just raised.

***

To everyone else, to be clear I'm NOT saying McDavid will never win a cup, actually I think he will. I also have nothing against McDavid in general and I do think he's the best offensive player of his generation which I have said multiple time.

All I'm doing here is clowning on this clown who apparently has been spending YEARS of his life stanning for McDavid according to his own post on last page.

"The Little Engine That Couldn’t Win More Than One Hart And Art Ross Past Age 19" how do you even think of this stuff lmao

 

[PainForShane]

Who is talking about raw point totals. Ignore raw point totals.

McDavid finished first 5 times.
Crosby finished first 2 times.

Actually Crosby finished first 3 times. McDavid hasn't finished first a single time, at least not yet.

Seems like you're counting the wrong thing. Pretty sure Sid values cups more than regular season trophies (as does every single other player in the league, incl McDavid)

 

[Video Nasty]

All I'm doing here is clowning on this clown who apparently has been spending YEARS of his life stanning for McDavid according to his own post on last page.


"The Little Engine That Couldn’t Win More Than One Hart And Art Ross Past Age 19" how do you even think of this stuff lmao

Tell me the one about the Golden Goal.

 

[PainForShane]

View attachment 898459

Tell me the one about the Golden Goal.

I already did.

 

[Video Nasty]

I already did.

Oh, I must have fallen asleep.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

This is actually a good point.

Niedermayer won four Cups. Bourque won one. Orr won two. Does this mean Niedermayer > Orr and Bourque?

You definitely have to look at more than Cups won when assessing players and careers.

I think a lot of people are quick to ignore Crosby having 3 Cups to McDavid's 0 because the Stanley Cup takes more than just one player to win, but it's a little silly to ignore it when Crosby gave a Conn Smythe worthy performance 2 out of those 3 times. Doing that once in the playoffs is hard enough for most players, Crosby did it twice. There's only been 6 players in the history of the sport to win multiple Conn Smythe trophies.

McDavid certainly has the potential to win multiple Conn Smythe trophies, but Crosby also had the potential to win 5 Art Ross trophies if not for his injury issues in the prime of his career.

 

[GreatGonzo]

well.... PIT and PHI fans dont like each other its pretty simple to figure out man

no that's not it at all. been 4 days now. you figure u would have convinced me by now and given up but your not. your arguments are flawed.

McDavid straight up has not done enough to warrant placing over Crosby or even the greats. you may disagree but there are alot of people who agree with me. McDavid will never be over Crosby on a consensus list this early. not like how Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr and Howe are. actually Ive seen Lindstrom and Hasek enter the top 5 on some lists

so basically it's your opinion vs my opinion.

Even if is was a Philly fan, im not less wrong because of it.

You clearly don’t see the flaw in saying someone with a TEAM trophy is better than someone with “personal awards.”

 

[Video Nasty]

I think a lot of people are quick to ignore Crosby having 3 Cups to McDavid's 0 because the Stanley Cup takes more than just one player to win, but it's a little silly to ignore it when Crosby gave a Conn Smythe worthy performance 2 out of those 3 times. Doing that once in the playoffs is hard enough for most players, Crosby did it twice. There's only been 6 players in the history of the sport to win multiple Conn Smythe trophies.

McDavid certainly has the potential to win multiple Conn Smythe trophies, but Crosby also had the potential to win 5 Art Ross trophies if not for his injury issues in the prime of his career.

Crosby could have won 5 even with his maladies. He wasn’t good enough.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Actually Crosby finished first 3 times. McDavid hasn't finished first a single time, at least not yet.

Seems like you're counting the wrong thing. Pretty sure Sid values cups more than regular season trophies (as does every single other player in the league, incl McDavid)

Pretty sure he was referring to scoring title
Finishes(raw point finishes), and if that’s the case, Crosby certainly doesn’t have 3

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Crosby could have won 5 even with his maladies. He wasn’t good enough.

If he won 5 despite of his injury issues then we wouldn't be having this debate right now, and we'd be discussing Crosby vs Lemieux instead.

 

[Video Nasty]

If he won 5 despite of his injury issues then we wouldn't be having this debate right now, and we'd be discussing Crosby vs Lemieux instead.

Exactly. Crosby blew his chance. Instead, by the end of McDavid's career, we'll be discussing if McDavid's career is second only to Gretzky.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Exactly. Crosby blew his chance. Instead, by the end of McDavid's career, we'll be discussing if McDavid's career is second only to Gretzky.

Eh, not sure about that. McDavid needs to do more before he surpasses Crosby. Right now I see it as pretty close, but it's going to be tough for McDavid to win that argument if he finishes his career with 0 cups, unless he ends up with a Gretzky amount of Art Ross and Hart trophies.

 

[PainForShane]

Exactly. Crosby blew his chance. Instead, by the end of McDavid's career, we'll be discussing if McDavid's career is second only to Gretzky.

You're in the wrong thread, kid. This thread is about whether McDavid is a tier above Crosby, right now. Not at the end of McDavid's career.

You can always go to sleep again. Then you can wake up at the end of McDavid's career and have the discussion you've clearly been wanting to have this entire time

 

[DitchMarner]

I think a lot of people are quick to ignore Crosby having 3 Cups to McDavid's 0 because the Stanley Cup takes more than just one player to win, but it's a little silly to ignore it when Crosby gave a Conn Smythe worthy performance 2 out of those 3 times. Doing that once in the playoffs is hard enough for most players, Crosby did it twice. There's only been 6 players in the history of the sport to win multiple Conn Smythe trophies.

McDavid certainly has the potential to win multiple Conn Smythe trophies, but Crosby also had the potential to win 5 Art Ross trophies if not for his injury issues in the prime of his career.

McDavid won a Conn Smythe this year and had one of the stronger playoff performances of the century. He's been excellent in the playoffs the last three years.

I value playoff play and definitely think it should be considered when comparing players. But comparing playoff performance based on Cups won isn't a good metric when comparing individual players.

If you want to rank Crosby ahead for now due to longevity of strong play (regular season + playoffs), that's fine. I don't think the fact that he has more Cups is a good reason to rate or rank him higher. You can say he has a number of strong playoff runs and a very good playoff career in general.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

McDavid won a Conn Smythe this year and had one of the stronger playoff performances of the century. He's been excellent in the playoffs the last three years.

I value playoff play and definitely think it should be considered when comparing players. But comparing playoff performance based on Cups won isn't a good metric when comparing individual players.

If you want to rank Crosby ahead for now due to longevity of strong play (regular season + playoffs), that's fine. I don't think the fact that he has more Cups is a good reason to rate or rank him higher. You can say he has a number of strong playoff runs and a very good playoff career in general.

Well that's kind of the point, McDavid had an all time performance in the playoffs this year, but Crosby has had several of those in this career. If McDavid can repeat what he did this year that will do a lot for his legacy.

 

[wetcoast]

Crosby could have won 5 even with his maladies.

True but what does it really matter except to people who insist on counting only certain things and not others?

He wasn’t good enough.

100% untrue being injured or missing out by a couple of points doesn't support your conclusion.

 

[Video Nasty]

True but what does it really matter except to people who insist on counting only certain things and not others?



100% untrue being injured or missing out by a couple of points doesn't support your conclusion.

Losing in 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 were huge stains. He wasn’t good enough in 2008-2009 or 2009-2010 either. If he collects even one from each of those pieces of bread, this is an entirely different discussion because I would give him every benefit of the doubt at that point. He wasn’t good enough.

You're in the wrong thread, kid. This thread is about whether McDavid is a tier above Crosby, right now. Not at the end of McDavid's career.

You can always go to sleep again. Then you can wake up at the end of McDavid's career and have the discussion you've clearly been wanting to have this entire time

He is in a tier above Crosby right now. It’s a new tier that’s below the Big Four and above Crosby and the pack of eight or so players in contention for what is now the #6 spot.

Eh, not sure about that. McDavid needs to do more before he surpasses Crosby. Right now I see it as pretty close, but it's going to be tough for McDavid to win that argument if he finishes his career with 0 cups, unless he ends up with a Gretzky amount of Art Ross and Hart trophies.

If it’s pretty close and one guy has 3 Cups when the other has zero, how one sided is it going to get when he wins?

 

[wetcoast]

Losing in 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 were huge stains. He wasn’t good enough in 2008-2009 or 2009-2010 either. If he collects even one from each of those pieces of bread, this is an entirely different discussion because I would give him every benefit of the doubt at that point. He wasn’t good enough.

Okay let's break down some of this BS here shall we starting on 08-09

finished 3rd in scoring with 103 points in 77 games, Malkin was first with 113 points in 82 games.

Top 3 PPG breaks down like this

1.39 (Ovi)
1.38 (Malkin)
1.34 (Crosby)


Huge stain there, surprised the Pens even kept him for the next season.

09-10 finishes 3rd (3 points out of first place) again and tied for goals.

Yet again another huge stain.

14-15 Finishes 3rd place with 84 points in 77 GP, leads NHL in PPG

15-16 3rd in points again 4 points out of second place, another huge stain.


So if he is healthy and plays in all those games and a little luck he suddenly is exponentially better because he wins an Extra art Ross or 2 or 3 but instead you are calling this a stain?

It's kind of ironic that he was the captain and driving the bus, or in the front seat if you want for 2 SC's in those years and a SC final against a dynasty Detroit team.

What you call 4 seasons of stain is the bedrock for an average HHOF resume that's how ridiculous your narrow viewpoint looks.

He is in a tier above Crosby right now. It’s a new tier that’s below the Big Four and above Crosby and the pack of eight or so players in contention for what is now the #6 spot.

If you say so it must be true right?

there aren't 8 players in contention for 6th spot (or 5th spot if you remove McDavid from the equation Crosby has the best case for 5th)

If it’s pretty close and one guy has 3 Cups when the other has zero, how one sided is it going to get when he wins?

Most of the people that have crosby ahead fully expect McDavid to be tracking to pass Crosby but he is only 9 seasons in and Crosby has 19 seasons of elite level of play going here.

Gretzky didn't pass Orr or Howe in 1983 so pump the breaks a bit or the "shoulda, woulda, coulda" entourage that you are part of will call you out for making stuff up....wait that doesn't get applied equally thus 1 million pages in this thread and 99.9% of one posters life the past 2 or 3 weeks around here.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Even if is was a Philly fan, im not less wrong because of it.

You clearly don’t see the flaw in saying someone with a TEAM trophy is better than someone with “personal awards.”

what Im saying is McDavid hasn't done enough yet to deserve to be placed over Crosby.

winning makes a difference. and if McDavid never wins it will affect his overall placement among the all time greats. nothing is given he has to take those spots and so far he hasn't done enough to just overstep Crosby's career which has ALOT more winning than McDavid has so far.

either agree or disagree I really dont care Ive had enough seeing your name. our argument is going in circles. enough is enough been 4 days going on 5.....

McDavid fans remind me of LeBron fans,