Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[GreatGonzo]

Drebin said something similar so many times (about the all-timeness of McD's performance this SCF). Learn how to read.

Also, a prior poster did a deep dive about the 2009 finals a few pages ago in a direct response to a question you posed, it was a response to a question you had so I'm sure you saw the post. Most of it was around the impact Sid made in the series. Learn how to read.

I mean to be fair, he was 2 points away from tying the record(13 points) and his 8 points in games 4 and 5 are now a record. But in your “expertise”, those points are all “garbage”

Oh, but Crosbys 3 points in 7 games were definitely “clutch”, “meaningful”, and certainly NOT underwhelming…

 

[tabness]

18K views people, this topic is paying HF's bills, keep it going

 

[GreatGonzo]

Crosby was facing the best shutdown combination of his generation - and better than any since - of Zetterberg and Lidstrom every time he stepped over the boards. At age 21. What was McDavid's playoff track record at that age?

So in other words, the great Sidney Crosby couldn’t handle the match up and couldn’t raise his game when it mattered.

If McDavid put up 3 points in 7 games and the oilers somehow still won. The same suspects in this thread would be so quick to tear him down, but Crosby. He gets an excuse

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I'm not. I'm just saying his 11 point SCF (when 10 of those points were scored in garbage time) wasn't clutch or an all-time great performance. And my post was more around clowning on the other poster's broken logic than anything else which should've been obvious given the TLDR summary at the end. And also the fact I literally said, "Elite players have bad series all the time."

McDavid scored 4 points in Game 5 with his team down 3-1 in the series...so are all those "garbage time" points?
no way you're serious

 

[PainForShane]

I mean to be fair, he was 2 points away from tying the record(13 points) and his 8 points in games 4 and 5 are now a record. But in your “expertise”, those points are all “garbage”

Oh, but Crosbys 3 points in 7 games were definitely “clutch”, “meaningful”, and certainly NOT underwhelming…

So then you too are arguing this is close to an all-time great performance as well is that right?

Just want to make sure this is your argument. If it isn't, no worries just lmk. Just wanted to bring up the fact that not even half an hour ago you were going out of your way to deny this argument completely

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Crosby was facing the best shutdown combination of his generation - and better than any since - of Zetterberg and Lidstrom every time he stepped over the boards. At age 21. What was McDavid's playoff track record at that age?

McDavid faced the reining Selke winner and early favorite for the Conn Smythe in Barkov and still scored

excuses

 

[GreatGonzo]

So then you too are arguing this is close to an all-time great performance as well is that right?

Just want to make sure this is your argument. If it isn't, no worries just lmk. Just wanted to bring up the fact that not even half an hour ago you were going out of your way to deny this argument completely

Holy strawman

Let’s put it this way. 11 points in 7 games is most certainly a better performance than 3 points in 7. But once again, using your argument…. 3 points>11 points.

Keep fighting the good fight bud, you are really hanging on to that sinking ship that is your entire argument.

 

[PainForShane]

Holy strawman

Let’s put it this way. 11 points in 7 games is most certainly a better performance than 3 points in 7. But once again, using your argument…. 3 points>11 points.

Keep fighting the good fight bud, you are really hanging on to that sinking ship that is your entire argument.

Bro. Last post you clearly said "he (McD) was 2 points away from tying the record(13 points) and his 8 points in games 4 and 5 are now a record."

That clearly implies McD's last performance one of the best finals performances of all time, otherwise how do you break some records and come close to breaking others. You know how I asked you last post to learn how to read? Well, learn how to write as well.

And no, I have never said (nor do I believe) that 3 points > 11 points. You seem to be extremely confused right now.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So in other words, the great Sidney Crosby couldn’t handle the match up and couldn’t raise his game when it mattered.

If McDavid put up 3 points in 7 games and the oilers somehow still won. The same suspects in this thread would be so quick to tear him down, but Crosby. He gets an excuse

According to your logic neither are as good as Max Talbot, so there's that.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Bro. Last post you clearly said "he (McD) was 2 points away from tying the record(13 points) and his 8 points in games 4 and 5 are now a record." Which clearly implies it's one of the best finals performances of all time, you said it's a record breaking performance. You know how I asked you last post to learn how to read? Well, learn how to write as well.

And no, I have never said (nor do I believe) that 3 points > 11 points. You seem to be extremely confused.

I was simply saying that the poster you are referring to was most likely looking at all those achievements. No, you are just trying to put words in my mouth in order to have an argument. It’s desperate and lazy, but that’s a given with you.

Is that right?….

“Put another way, pretending Crosby underperformed is legitimate nonsense, especially when McDavid actually DID underperform in arguably every meaningful game in this year's SCF.”

“10/11 of his points were in garbage time.”

Confused? Might want to look in the mirror..

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

McDavid faced the reining Selke winner and early favorite for the Conn Smythe in Barkov and still scored

excuses

Yeah, and if he had to face a comparable to Lidstrom as the 2nd layer of defense, it might be comparable.

Who was Florida's answer to Lidstrom? I'll wait.

 

[norrisnick]

I wonder when @norrisnick is going to jump in to add some extra context to this discussion by pointing out how great of a job his Detroit darlings did by shutting down the opposite team’s best offensive weapons, in this case Crosby, who was playing alongside the ghost of Chris Kunitz (1G in 24GP) and the corpse of Billy Guerin in the 2009 Finals. Surely, it has nothing to do with Norris Nick himself or the great Henrik Zetterberg being stuck to Crosby all series long and by putting up a defensive clinic to make sure Crosby was not producing in the finals..

Or does all this Detroit players glazing/bias takes only apply when Crosby is not involved? I think I know the answer.

You guys have done a bang up job of coming up with the talking points for both sides. You don't need my input...

 

[GreatGonzo]

According to your logic neither are as good as Max Talbot, so there's that.

Why do you insists on creating a strawman in order to even have an argument? No where did I say that or did I suggest that. Bringing up Talbot was a counter argument to the idea that McDavid had a better supporting cast….yet his barely showed up for the finals, where as Crosby had a ton of help from secondary scoring, including guys like Talbot, Kennedy, and Staal. It’s very simple.

Yeah, and if he had to face a comparable to Lidstrom as the 2nd layer of defense, it might be comparable.

Who was Florida's answer to Lidstrom? I'll wait.

So now we are back peddling to the whole concept that it’s never Crosbys fault. It was the match up that he simply couldn’t handle…

It must be nice being Crosby and nothing ever being your fault.

 

[tabness]

I wonder when @norrisnick is going to jump in to add some extra context to this discussion by pointing out how great of a job his Detroit darlings did by shutting down the opposite team’s best offensive weapons, in this case Crosby, who was playing alongside the ghost of Chris Kunitz (1G in 24GP) and the corpse of Billy Guerin in the 2009 Finals. Surely, it has nothing to do with Norris Nick himself or the great Henrik Zetterberg being stuck to Crosby all series long and by putting up a defensive clinic to make sure Crosby was not producing in the finals..

Or does all this Detroit players glazing/bias takes only apply when Crosby is not involved? I think I know the answer.

fight the good fight for your guy without bringing Detroit into this cesspool lol you dont want Wings fans to bring up that the most Crosby ever hurt the Wings was the snubbing of the handshake line lol

still more than McDavid though so there is that

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Yeah, and if he had to face a comparable to Lidstrom as the 2nd layer of defense, it might be comparable.

Who was Florida's answer to Lidstrom? I'll wait.

No, McDavid had to face a former Vezina winner...not Chris Osgood

any more excuses?

 

[PainForShane]

Why do you insists on creating a strawman in order to even have an argument? No where did I say that or did I suggest that. Bringing up Talbot was a counter argument to the idea that McDavid had a better supporting cast….yet his barely showed up for the finals, where as Crosby had a ton of help from secondary scoring, including guys like Talbot, Kennedy, and Staal. It’s very simple.


So now we are back peddling to the whole concept that it’s never Crosbys fault. It was the match up that he simply couldn’t handle…

It must be nice being Crosby and nothing ever being your fault.

Still haven't figured out how to spell I see (despite clowning on others because you think spelling would be hard for them). Must be weird to actively go out of your way to never learn anything.

In the meantime, no one is saying "nothing is ever Crosby's fault." wtf are you even arguing rn

 

[GreatGonzo]

fight the good fight for your guy without bringing Detroit into this cesspool lol you dont want Wings fans to bring up that the most Crosby ever hurt the Wings was the snubbing of the handshake line lol

still more than McDavid though so there is that

I love how you keep avoiding the points where you keep claiming you didn’t say something, only to be confronted with your ridiculous statements….and then you deflect

Still haven't figured out how to spell I see (despite clowning on others because you think spelling would be hard for them). Must be weird to actively go out of your way to never learn anything.

In the meantime, no one is saying "nothing is ever Crosby's fault." wtf are you even arguing rn

“Put another way, pretending Crosby underperformed is legitimate nonsense, especially when McDavid actually DID underperform in arguably every meaningful game in this year's SCF.”

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No, McDavid had to face a former Vezina winner...not Chris Osgood

any more excuses?

Bobrovsky = Lidstrom in terms of impact.

Gotcha.

 

[PainForShane]

I love how you keep avoiding the points where you keep claiming you didn’t say something, only to be confronted with your ridiculous statements….and then you deflect


“Put another way, pretending Crosby underperformed is legitimate nonsense, especially when McDavid actually DID underperform in arguably every meaningful game in this year's SCF.”

What I said (bolded above for convenience) isn't even close to saying "nothing is ever Sidney Crosby's fault" which is what you claimed I said in the prior post. They're not even related to the same argument.

For your own sake, please learn how to read. It'll help you in all sorts of ways unrelated to (and more meaningful than) having arguments with random strangers on the internet

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Bobrovsky = Lidstrom in terms of impact.

Gotcha.

Yes...since he plays 100% of the minutes
prior to Game 4, Bobrovsky sported a ridiculous .953% save percentage...that's an all-time heater

 

[GreatGonzo]

What I said (bolded above for convenience) isn't even close to saying "nothing is ever Sidney Crosby's fault" which is what you claimed I said in the prior post. They're not even related to the same argument.

For your own sake, please learn how to read. It'll help you in all sorts of ways unrelated to having arguments with random strangers on the internet.

I didn’t say thats what you were implying. You were CLEARLY implying though that Crosbys ‘09 didn’t underperform…while McDavid in ‘24 clearly DID underperform…

Care you elaborate?

“Learn how to read.” Learn how to argue without tripping over your own ridiculous takes

 

[GreatGonzo]

Bobrovsky = Lidstrom in terms of impact.

Gotcha.

Crosby literally faced the same team, the same match ups…the same goalie, the year prior and did pretty well. Why is it suddenly using Lidstrom and company an excuse as to why he couldn’t perform?

 

[PainForShane]

I didn’t say thats what you were implying. You were CLEARLY implying though that Crosbys ‘09 didn’t underperform…while McDavid in ‘24 clearly DID underperform…

Care you elaborate?

“Learn how to read.” Learn how to argue without tripping over your own ridiculous takes

Yes, that's what I said. And it's because I believe:

"McDavid actually DID underperform in arguably every meaningful game in this year's SCF.”

There I quoted myself. I usually don't feel the need to do that. The statement above is exactly what I meant to say.

You quoted this statement before. Can you read and understand the meaning of that sentence? If not, there are other issues going on that you might want to address.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Yes, that's what I said. And it's because I believe:

"McDavid actually DID underperform in arguably every meaningful game in this year's SCF.”

There I quoted myself. I usually don't need to do that. The above statement is exactly what I meant.

You quoted this statement before. Can you read and understand the meaning of that sentence? If not, there are other issues going on that you might want to address.

Again with the “cAn yOu rEaD”

How did he underperform where as Crosby didn’t? You have yet to explain yourself for that and keep avoiding it, I can only speculate because you have no argument and instead need to keep dancing around it.

Also “10/11 of his points were in garbage time.” If that’s the case, what were Crosbys 3 points then?…

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Why do you insists on creating a strawman in order to even have an argument? No where did I say that or did I suggest that. Bringing up Talbot was a counter argument to the idea that McDavid had a better supporting cast….yet his barely showed up for the finals, where as Crosby had a ton of help from secondary scoring, including guys like Talbot, Kennedy, and Staal. It’s very simple.


So now we are back peddling to the whole concept that it’s never Crosbys fault. It was the match up that he simply couldn’t handle…

It must be nice being Crosby and nothing ever being your fault.

Shit happens over a small sample size - Foegele had 5 points in 7 games.

I'm providing context for stats. Nobody disputes that Detroit could put out an all-time great shutdown tandem in Zetterberg/Lidstrom that would cause fits for anyone.