Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[GoldenSeal]

Holy f*** this is just an all around terrible, obnoxious post

It absolutely is, but no one, not a single soul, not even those laughing at my posts (Thanks because those count as likes by the way ) are saying I don't got a point.

Look, we all know McDavid is meant to be the Great Next One. It's just that simple. His skillsets alone should be burying everyone and anyone, so the problem isn't skill. He hits a wall, backs off and gets emotional about it instead of getting pissed and going back at it harder.

I'd like to see the guy rack up Cups because, as much as every McDavid hater out there refuses to admit it, he deserves it. You can't be the best and not won it all, that's obnoxious and ridiculous. But that's where we're heading because when it comes down to it, he lacks -something- that will get him to the finish line. Could be courage, could be resolve, could be drive. I hear all the time how players get hurt and those who have drive and heart never give up. EK skated with a chunk of his ankle bone toast and refused to give up. With McDavid's skillsets, THAT is the player we think he is and should be, but he won't show up when it's time.

That's not being obnoxious, that's just telling the truth and the track record backs it up.

 

[Fatass]

No, he’s not. Crosby is key in three Cups. McDavid could have been key but failed. Imo until McDavid is a key player in winning a Cup he’s a tier below Sid.

 

[pi314]

He last won a playoff series when he was 30! We're not talking about f***ing Gordie Howe here.

McDavid hasn't won the Stanley Cup because the Oilers haven't been good enough. This isn't exactly complicated stuff.

And his lack of showing up when it counted most is part of the reason why.

 

[I am Bettman]

It absolutely is, but no one, not a single soul, not even those laughing at my posts (Thanks because those count as likes by the way ) are saying I don't got a point.

Look, we all know McDavid is meant to be the Great Next One. It's just that simple. His skillsets alone should be burying everyone and anyone, so the problem isn't skill. He hits a wall, backs off and gets emotional about it instead of getting pissed and going back at it harder.

I'd like to see the guy rack up Cups because, as much as every McDavid hater out there refuses to admit it, he deserves it. You can't be the best and not won it all, that's obnoxious and ridiculous. But that's where we're heading because when it comes down to it, he lacks -something- that will get him to the finish line. Could be courage, could be resolve, could be drive. I hear all the time how players get hurt and those who have drive and heart never give up. EK skated with a chunk of his ankle bone toast and refused to give up. With McDavid's skillsets, THAT is the player we think he is and should be, but he won't show up when it's time.

That's not being obnoxious, that's just telling the truth and the track record backs it up.

EK doesn’t count according to your logic because he doesn’t have a cup. The thing he lacks to get him across the finish line is a competent team. Put prime Crosby in Mcdavid’s place this season and I’m not even sure they can recover from their early season woes enough to make the playoffs. If Mcdavid had been hurt for games 6 and 7, but the Oilers won, would that all of a sudden make him a greater player despite having nothing to do with the final two games?

 

[GoldenSeal]

EK doesn’t count according to your logic because he doesn’t have a cup. The thing he lacks to get him across the finish line is a competent team. Put prime Crosby in Mcdavid’s place this season and I’m not even sure they can recover from their early season woes enough to make the playoffs. If Mcdavid had been hurt for games 6 and 7, but the Oilers won, would that all of a sudden make him a greater player despite having nothing to do with the final two games?

Given that McDavid had one of the most historic playoff runs in history, if someone tried to say something like that when McDavid hoisted the Cup, I would be going ballistic. McDavid earned his Cup at that point, but especially when you wear the C, your job isn't over til the series is won.

EK is a far lesser skilled player than McDavid. McDavid needs whatever it is that EK has got internally because that guy's made of glass and refuses to give up even when he can't and shouldn't be skating. That kind of drive is amazing and demands respect. That's the 'what' McDavid is missing.

 

[GreatGonzo]

It absolutely is, but no one, not a single soul, not even those laughing at my posts (Thanks because those count as likes by the way ) are saying I don't got a point.

Look, we all know McDavid is meant to be the Great Next One. It's just that simple. His skillsets alone should be burying everyone and anyone, so the problem isn't skill. He hits a wall, backs off and gets emotional about it instead of getting pissed and going back at it harder.

I'd like to see the guy rack up Cups because, as much as every McDavid hater out there refuses to admit it, he deserves it. You can't be the best and not won it all, that's obnoxious and ridiculous. But that's where we're heading because when it comes down to it, he lacks -something- that will get him to the finish line. Could be courage, could be resolve, could be drive. I hear all the time how players get hurt and those who have drive and heart never give up. EK skated with a chunk of his ankle bone toast and refused to give up. With McDavid's skillsets, THAT is the player we think he is and should be, but he won't show up when it's time.

That's not being obnoxious, that's just telling the truth and the track record backs it up.

So….your saying McDavid doesn’t try hard enough when it matters….while Crosby does?

Interesting….can you provide anything to support your claim?

Guy had 11 points in the finals, and had more goals than Crosby has in 7 games than Crosby did In 20+…all while injured…but he didn’t try hard enough for your standards?

Crazy how 3 points in 7 games is having “courage”, and having “drive” while “showing up when it matters.” But McDavid? He’s lacking

And his lack of showing up when it counted most is part of the reason why.

You mean like Crosby?…

 

[Frank Drebin]

It absolutely is, but no one, not a single soul, not even those laughing at my posts (Thanks because those count as likes by the way ) are saying I don't got a point.

Look, we all know McDavid is meant to be the Great Next One. It's just that simple. His skillsets alone should be burying everyone and anyone, so the problem isn't skill. He hits a wall, backs off and gets emotional about it instead of getting pissed and going back at it harder.

I'd like to see the guy rack up Cups because, as much as every McDavid hater out there refuses to admit it, he deserves it. You can't be the best and not won it all, that's obnoxious and ridiculous. But that's where we're heading because when it comes down to it, he lacks -something- that will get him to the finish line. Could be courage, could be resolve, could be drive. I hear all the time how players get hurt and those who have drive and heart never give up. EK skated with a chunk of his ankle bone toast and refused to give up. With McDavid's skillsets, THAT is the player we think he is and should be, but he won't show up when it's time.

That's not being obnoxious, that's just telling the truth and the track record backs it up.

You don’t have a point
You have a biased opinion that you’re attempting to pass off as fact

Its fine though

Posters like you will try as long and as hard as you can to hold mcdavid up to impossible standards so that you can delay admission that he is one of the all time greats to ever play the game

These opinions look foolish and obvious today, but will even look more foolish when looking back when it’s all said and done

I’m sure there were people insisting that Bryan trottier or mark messier were superior to Mario back in 1990 or similar nonsense. I bet some still hold these opinions today.

 

[benfranklin]

Sid until Connor gets a Cup or three.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Holy f*** I love Erik karlsson as much as the next guy but that is the strangest comparison

 

[crowfish]

Sid until Connor gets a Cup or three.

This "McDavid can't be better than Crosby until he gets a Cup" gatekeeping is just strange to me.

Everyone agrees that McDavid doesn't need a Cup to pass guys like Toews, Stamkos, Malkin, MacKinnon etc. What's the difference with Sid? He is in the same category as those guys (Cup winning stars that are worse at hockey than McDavid). What is so special about his resume that McDavid NEEDS to win a Cup to pass him? Can someone explain the logic? Or is there no logic and it's just coping mechanisms from people who don't like that Crosby has been surpassed?

 

[JoelWarlord]

because when it comes down to it, he lacks -something- that will get him to the finish line.

He lacks a goalie that doesn't suck and a capable bottom six so his team doesn't get murdered when he's on the bench.

 

[Offtheboard412]

View attachment 894562

View attachment 894563

Daver and McDaver.

 

[Romang67]

And his lack of showing up when it counted most is part of the reason why.

When he scored 0 points in games 5-7 and was a -3?

Sorry, no, that was Crosby in 2009. Luckily his leadering was leadery enough back then that the Penguins still won. If only he hadn't forgotten how to lead in 2018, the Penguins would probably still be a contender to this day.

Or maybe it's a team thing. Who knows, really.

For the record, before McDavid went scoreless in games 6 and 7, he scored 4 points in each of the preceding two elimination games. Proper disappearing act.

This "McDavid can't be better than Crosby until he gets a Cup" gatekeeping is just strange to me.

Everyone agrees that McDavid doesn't need a Cup to pass guys like Toews, Stamkos, Malkin, MacKinnon etc. What's the difference with Sid? He is in the same category as those guys (Cup winning stars that are worse at hockey than McDavid). What is so special about his resume that McDavid NEEDS to win a Cup to pass him? Can someone explain the logic? Or is there no logic and it's just coping mechanisms from people who don't like that Crosby has been surpassed?

As always in these discussions, I feel obligated to bring up how Ray Bourque obviously was a garbage leader until his last year in the league. Completely unable to lead his team to a win, that one.

 

[Frank Drebin]

This "McDavid can't be better than Crosby until he gets a Cup" gatekeeping is just strange to me.

Everyone agrees that McDavid doesn't need a Cup to pass guys like Toews, Stamkos, Malkin, MacKinnon etc. What's the difference with Sid? He is in the same category as those guys (Cup winning stars that are worse at hockey than McDavid). What is so special about his resume that McDavid NEEDS to win a Cup to pass him? Can someone explain the logic? Or is there no logic and it's just coping mechanisms from people who don't like that Crosby has been surpassed?

Here’s how silly that cup logic is

Let’s say 35 year old mcdavid signs a series of league minimum cup chasing deals and gets 2 or 3 cups being the second or third best player on the team

Are those cups actually going to change anything about what kind of player he is today?

truth is the team accomplishments are the only metric that stack up favourably to Crosby when comparing the two, which is why the Crosby/anti McDavid crowd hang’s on to them so desperately

When he scored 0 points in games 5-7 and was a -3?

Sorry, no, that was Crosby in 2009. Luckily his leadering was leadery enough back then that the Penguins still won. If only he hadn't forgotten how to lead in 2018, the Penguins would probably still be a contender to this day.

Or maybe it's a team thing. Who knows, really.

For the record, before McDavid went scoreless in games 6 and 7, he scored 4 points in each of the preceding two elimination games. Proper disappearing act.


As always in these discussions, I feel obligated to bring up how Ray Bourque obviously was a garbage leader until his last year in the league. Completely unable to lead his team to a win, that one.

Tom barasso was superior to hasek until hasek channeled what it took to win when he joined the powerhouse wings in 2002

 

[Video Nasty]

Ahh well that’s not Crosby’s career high. You brought up Crosby’s rookie numbers in a slightly inflated scoring environment, and not the 2014 year where he lapped the league in scoring by nearly 20% more points than the 2nd place player. You know, the actual low scoring environment that people were bringing up? The one that occurred in his prime and not his rookie season?

Yeah that’s what people would like you to do, but then you’d have to actually do the math to adjust for scoring, and not whatever terrible napkin math you are trying to do.

Are you okay? Crosby’s career high is 120 points, which is what I was referring to, so your post is not off to a good start.

Amusing to hear about Crosby’s first two seasons being considered “slightly inflated.” Yep, just be completely dishonest and ignore the hyper inflated amount of power plays being handed out.

2013-2014 you say? You mean the season where Crosby had all-time low competition for the scoring race? Getzlaf, Giroux, Seguin, Perry, Hall, Kessel….give me a break. Let’s not forget that 4 of the top 6 PPG players from that season missed 22, 23, 45, and 37 games (Malkin, Tavares, Stamkos, and Zetterberg respectively). Getzlaf also played 3 fewer games. Seguin missed 7. You don’t think any of this had something to do with Crosby winning the Art Ross by 17 points, or a 19.5% win?

If that turns you on, let me point you to McDavid’s 2020-2021 and 2022-2023 seasons. Those should make your toes curl in your socks, but since it’s Crosby being outshone, I doubt it will.

 

[Video Nasty]

Thru Game 41 of Season 6 of their respective careers, they were almost equal in career PPG and in the gap between them and their peers. McDavid played just 15 more games that year and is drawing comparisons to Mario while Crosby gets the "we will never know" treatment.

McDavid played a full season. He then backed it up by dropping 153 points over a full “normal” campaign. He removed the what if and any potential mystery if it was a fluke. He basically did what Crosby never could. Repeat an individual feat or prove the pace was for real. I’m sorry Crosby couldn’t and McDavid can. That’s called reality.

Repeat after me. The guy posted 105 points in a 56 game season and 95% of the hockey world didn’t think it was possible before the 2020-2021 season began. I remember, because I made a thread before that season started pondering that he could score 100 that season and it was a landslide saying no.

He also won his second Hart, third Lindsay, and third Art Ross, while having another Hart finalist nomination and two more top 5’s. Crosby had one of each at that point and one other Hart finalist nomination.

That’s the difference. That’s why one player is drawing comparisons to Mario with his feats and play while the closest the other came to such a thing was when he lived in his basement.

 

[McPoyle]

Wow, 74% of voters think McDavid is better than Crosby. I did not expect that result.

 

[heretik27]

Wow, 74% of voters think McDavid is better than Crosby. I did not expect that result.

Probably because most people just accept the fact that McDavid is a better player. It's kind of ironic that the Crosby diehards in here will use the same arguments that they lambasted Toews fans for back in the day for him being a better player than Crosby... intangibles and team accolades... oh how the turn tables!

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

poll results are trash

You could have a poll saying which is better to have, a single $100 bill or a $50 and two $20s and we’d have some votes for the second option.

Because that’s what they happen to have in their wallet, or they don’t have either but dislike the guy with the $100 bill more.

Having $90 is great.
Having $100 is better.

Between these 2 particular players

$90 = almost Stanley Cup player (could have, should have, would have)
$100 = Stanley Cup Player

 

[DJJones]

Healthy prime Crosby in the last high scoring couple of years would be insane

 

[DFC]

He's really that good. No knock on Sid. McDavid is going down as one of the top 3-5 all time. The tier no one ever gets into, including Sid, until now.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Except he wasn't. He was bad in the Washington series but the Penguins caught a break in Washington's goaltending was also bad in that series.

Pittsburgh was down 2-3 in the Cup Final, one game away from losing, MAF stepped up and allowed only 2 goals total in game 6 and 7, two games in which Crosby had 0 points and Malkin had 1, Pittsburgh wins the Cup.

If that's "poor", then that's the best McDavid has ever had by quite a ways.

With a Stanley Cup on the line, you're not getting much better than a goalie that steps up and only gives up 1 goal total in both a game 6 and game 7 of a Cup Final. That basically won them a Cup.

Washington's goaltending was bad in that series? Sorry, wtf are you talking about dude? Varlamov was bad in game 7 but was really good the rest of the time...

 

[Grifter3511]

Are we still holding it against mcdavid that the Oilers haven't won a cup with him?

Are we still on hfboards?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

EK doesn’t count according to your logic because he doesn’t have a cup. The thing he lacks to get him across the finish line is a competent team. Put prime Crosby in Mcdavid’s place this season and I’m not even sure they can recover from their early season woes enough to make the playoffs. If Mcdavid had been hurt for games 6 and 7, but the Oilers won, would that all of a sudden make him a greater player despite having nothing to do with the final two games?

Crosby's team made the playoffs 16 straight seasons after being a bottom-2 team the prior three seasons. People seem to live in some alternate universe where Crosby did not do what he actually accomplished.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

When he scored 0 points in games 5-7 and was a -3?

Sorry, no, that was Crosby in 2009. Luckily his leadering was leadery enough back then that the Penguins still won. If only he hadn't forgotten how to lead in 2018, the Penguins would probably still be a contender to this day.

Or maybe it's a team thing. Who knows, really.

For the record, before McDavid went scoreless in games 6 and 7, he scored 4 points in each of the preceding two elimination games. Proper disappearing act.


As always in these discussions, I feel obligated to bring up how Ray Bourque obviously was a garbage leader until his last year in the league. Completely unable to lead his team to a win, that one.

No one thought that about Bourque though, since he obviously led a much weaker team around him to more success than you'd expect, even without a cup. The Oilers have had a good enough team around him to win a cup the last few years. Yet when he gets outplayed by Eichel or does little against Florida outside of one game, everyone just belittles his teammates, while somehow not acknowledging that McDavid is playing with his team's best players at almost all times.