Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[nbwingsfan]

I mean when you are having conversation in where he ranks in like the top 10 all time in NHL history....to place him in the top 5 I don't think it is ridiculous to expect him to need to win one. Not saying it is his fault they haven't won...but it objectively matters when you are talking about a legacy for a player like this.

For arguments sake, let’s say Derek Ryan scored 2 goals in the last minute of game 7 and the oilers won.

You now view McDavid as a better player because of Derek Ryan heroics ?

 

[Rythashocka]

Where was Crosby in 2009 game 7?

Where was he in 2008 game 6?

Where was he in 2017 game 6?

Mcdavid for a 1 game sample over anyone ever in the history of hockey

Mcdavid rested and needing to play 1 game is more dangerous than 99, 66, 4, 9

He got hurt in 2009, and Crosby does other things that don't always translate on the scoresheet.

He also won two smythes to go with his 3 cups, although one can be debated.

Where was McDavid in game 6 and 7 against Florida?

 

[villacco]

No, they are absolutely same tier. I would even say Crosby is better.
Statistically speaking they are very close at the same age (1.5 vs 1.4 points / game). Crosby missed some time at a young age.
McDavid style is way flashier, so I get that, why he is considered better. And he is playing in a higher scoring area. I was surprised, when I saw, that they are basically very close in goals/game (0.5) and very close in assists (1.0 vs 0.9).
Crosby is the better 200 feet player, so I would pick him every day of the week in his twenties over Prime McDavid.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

For arguments sake, let’s say Derek Ryan scored 2 goals in the last minute of game 7 and the oilers won.

You now view McDavid as a better player because of Derek Ryan heroics ?

Legacy stuff matters when you are talking about like S tier players. Like I fully understand your point....but McDavid needs to win a cup lol it is what it is.

 

[VainGretzky]

He got hurt in 2009, and Crosby does other things that don't always translate on the scoresheet.

He also won two smythes to go with his 3 cups, although one can be debated.

Where was McDavid in game 6 and 7 against Florida?

he was hurt lol same excuse you're using for Crosby he had an abdominal injury all thru the playoffs and stills et records

 

[nowhereman]

Mcdavid for a 1 game sample over anyone ever in the history of hockey

Mcdavid rested and needing to play 1 game is more dangerous than 99, 66, 4, 9

If I needed to win game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals, there's no way I'm choosing McDavid over any of the Big 4. The notion that this guy is better than Gretzky is comical.

 

[Regal]

The catch with Crosby though wasn't just that he got injured. It was that the medical staff missed a soft tissue injury in his neck and that is what caused it to become such a long term problem for him. He's had other concussions since then and he only missed 6 games for the first one (2016/2017 regular season) and 1 game for the second one (2016/2017 playoffs).

Also the timing of the injury. The McDavid knee injury happened at the end of the year while the team missed the playoffs. He worked his ass off to get back for the start of the next season, but if it had happened halfway through the year he would have missed all those games. His other major injury was as a rookie so it doesn’t affect him as much since he wasn’t going to win any awards other than the Calder that year anyway.

Crosby getting injured in the middle of the season while playing the best hockey of his career is just terrible timing. Then it being misdiagnosed causing him to barely play the following year. Then the broken jaw in the shortened year the following year instead of in a full season hurts him again, as he missed 13 games including one playoff game, and if he played 69 of 82 regular season games he probably wins the Art Ross and Hart. He’s played in 92% of his team’s games outside of those 3 years so he’s not exactly a Malkin or Forsberg in terms of staying healthy.

 

[hamzarocks]

He got hurt in 2009, and Crosby does other things that don't always translate on the scoresheet.

He also won two smythes to go with his 3 cups, although one can be debated.

Where was McDavid in game 6 and 7 against Florida?

Crosby got bailed out in 2009 is what your trying to pretend not have to say

Mcdavids oilers got them a win in game 6 but he didnt have the same luck as Crosby in 09 when Talbot popped in 2 goals and MAF made one of the greatest saves ever in dying moments of the game

 

[tabness]

Mcdavid for a 1 game sample over anyone ever in the history of hockey

Mcdavid rested and needing to play 1 game is more dangerous than 99, 66, 4, 9

I was about to argue but then I think to myself, so many zoomers (actual and later millennials) are priced out of ever buying a house, stuck with stagnant wages and an ever increasing cost of living, living in a more polarized world that seems less stable politically. Even the weather seems to be getting more extreme.

So yes, I'm with you bud, anything to take away from the pain of renting in Taranna and the failures of the local hockey team, let's go watch the next superhero movie together and indulge in further escapist fantasies of real and imaginary current gen heroes (not at the theater though of course just wait for it to get on Netflix)

 

[hamzarocks]

I was about to argue but then I think to myself, so many zoomers (actual and later millennials) are priced out of ever buying a house, stuck with stagnant wages and an ever increasing cost of living, living in a more polarized world that seems less stable politically. Even the weather seems to be getting more extreme.

So yes, I'm with you bud, anything to take away from the pain of renting in Taranna and the failures of the local hockey team, let's go watch the next superhero movie together and indulge in further escapist fantasies of real and imaginary current gen heroes (not at the theater though of course just wait for it to get on Netflix)

#Leafs in 6

 

[nbwingsfan]

Legacy stuff matters when you are talking about like S tier players. Like I fully understand your point....but McDavid needs to win a cup lol it is what it is.

You didn’t answer my question.

Would Derek Ryan scoring two goals in the last minute of a game show how to win game 7 make you view McDavid as a better player or not?

 

[Rorschach]

Yes and when he signed the 8.7m deal, the salary cap was 56 million.

Point is he signed for less.

 

[Sasso09]

This is simple. Want points, highlights, Art Trophies?

Take McDavid

Want leadership, your team performance to level up, Stanley Cups?

Take Crosby.

AKA

" i have no argument for Crosby but i like him better so i'll make up intangibles"

McDavid is a level above all

 

[River Meadow]

How many cups does McDavid have?

 

[Video Nasty]

Crosby also played in a lower scoring era in his prime than McDavid has, which will make the raw totals appear less impressive.

Not low enough to make up for the massive difference in those point totals. McDavid outscored Crosby by 48 points while playing 1 fewer game in their age 27 seasons. How can one spin being outscored by 57% when scoring is only 14% higher now in 2023-2024 compared to 2014-2015?

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

For my money, I prefer Crosby’s play style. He could beat you in so many ways. Skate through 5 defenders effortlessly, deke you out, beat you down low, grind you along the boards. Just pure dominant shifts.

This is how I feel. This era is tailor made for McDavid, whereas I think Crosby's play style translates to any era.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Not low enough to make up for the massive difference in those point totals. McDavid outscored Crosby by 48 points while playing 1 fewer game in their age 27 seasons. How can one spin being outscored by 57% when scoring is only 14% higher now in 2023-2024 compared to 2014-2015?

Because power play efficiencies are way up and goalie pads are reduced. Star players are scoring at higher rates than just the overall increase in scoring. Crosby's only issue was getting injured. As posted before, relative to their peers they're very similar.

06-07 to 13-14 ppg leaders

Crosby 1.42
Malkin 1.22
Ovechkin 1.18
St Louis 1.07
Thornton 1.05

16-17 to 23-24 ppg leaders

McDavid 1.56
Kucherov 1.41
MacKinnon 1.30
Draisaitl 1.30
Panarin 1.19

 

[edog37]

How do you compare the two Canadian superstars?

You don’t because Crosby is in the Top 5 all time & McMuffin isn’t even top 20

 

[Seras]

Even taking into account the injury that set Crosby back they are still relatively close.

Had McDavid taken that kind of physical play he might have retired that day

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Even taking into account the injury that set Crosby back they are still relatively close.

Had McDavid taken that kind of physical play he might have retired that day

Yea that's another aspect. Crosby was taking cheap shots almost nightly whereas that element has pretty much disappeared from the game now. McDavid caught a glimpse of it his rookie year when he broke his clavicle. Crosby and Malkin have both played 82 games each of the last two years. Can't even remember the last time either took a cheap shot, maybe Trouba in the playoffs in 2022. The game is soft and wide open now.

 

[Haatley]

What people ought to be looking at is the fact that Connor McDavid not only broke a Gretzky record in the playoffs but also did twice what Crosby has never done - actually lead the playoffs in scoring.

Go ask connor if he would rather have more points or a championship.

 

[GoldenSeal]

There's far too much analysis of who did what when and how, bottom line is McDavid doesn't have a Cup. No one's saying he's not a great player but comparing him to a Champion is ridiculous. Stop allowing, making and creating excuses for this guy and demand more. When it matters the most, he doesn't show up and until that changes, I'm sticking with Crosby. What good is winning all these awards and scoring all those goals and this and that if you don't win it all?

McDavid needs a coach that will instill courage, resolve and the willpower to win in him, because he clearly lacks those qualities, and I don't know why but that irritates the living hell out of me.

 

[eXile3]

You can argue which one is better but saying one or the other is a tier above would is stupid.

McDavid obviously has had the advantage of more offensive, less physical league so comparing points alone is not going to prove anything.

Comparing players of different eras is impossible. Imagine McDavid or Crosby or OV playing in the early 80s against anorexic goalies and those defenses. They would rip the league up.

 

[Video Nasty]

Because power play efficiencies are way up and goalie pads are reduced. Star players are scoring at higher rates than just the overall increase in scoring. Crosby's only issue was getting injured. As posted before, relative to their peers they're very similar.

06-07 to 13-14 ppg leaders

Crosby 1.42
Malkin 1.22
Ovechkin 1.18
St Louis 1.07
Thornton 1.05

16-17 to 23-24 ppg leaders

McDavid 1.56
Kucherov 1.41
MacKinnon 1.30
Draisaitl 1.30
Panarin 1.19

None of that explains away a 57% gap.

Looks good until considering that St. Louis and Thornton were ages 31-38 and 27-34, while McDavid’s 3rd and 4th closest comparables were his teammate who was ages 21-28 and Panarin who was 25-32.

And of course, Crosby sat for 153 games.

It matters little to me that Crosby dominated less against inferior competition.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

You didn’t answer my question.

Would Derek Ryan scoring two goals in the last minute of a game show how to win game 7 make you view McDavid as a better player or not?

It would improve his legacy at the end of his career yes. Derek Ryan didn't do that though so here we are with a still cupless McDavid in reality.