Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[Frank Drebin]

Trust me man, Pens fans aren't sitting around worrying about McDavid or the Oilers. And really, no one has to wish for McDavid to lose. That's all he does. Takes after his fan base, I guess.

And i agree, being an Oilers fan will look "stupider" in 10, 15, and 20 years from now.

Hey I get it
You stop watching hockey in April when the pens season is over. Hard to believe that 2017 was 7 years ago already, time flies

But there are still pens fans that cheer against the oilers solely to “win” these mcdavid vs Crosby discussions.

I agree, being an oiler fan is stupid. We were gifted the best player since Mario Lemieux and have surrounded him with terrible goalies , terrible depth, and bought out contracts since he’s arrived. Once he’s gone we’re never going to sniff winning again in my life

But it really doesn’t change anything about the Sid/connor comparisons. They’re going to age just as well as the toews/crosby comparisons from a decade ago.

remove the team accomplishments from Sid’s resume and it becomes very clear how silly this whole discussion is

 

[I am Bettman]

i don't know how to answer the question other than this:

Oilers fans are desperate to tell you how much better than Sid McDavid is.

Penguins fans don't give a f*** about the Oilers or McDavid. I do find it weird how much of your own self-worth you guys attach to McDavid. Given that, I can understand why all the losing you guys do makes you extra salty.

I’m a Bruins fan, nice try. The truth is simply that Mcdavid has done things that Crosby has never come close to. I wonder if the people voting for Crosby really watch Mcdavid at all because he is the same level as Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr while Crosby is closer to the Sakic, Yzerman tier.

 

[Rorschach]

Malkin signed a 9.5 million dollar contract when the cap was 64.3 million.

That's after his 8.7m/y salary expired.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Agree to disagree, all good lol

Just because you say, “of course he did! Why am I even having this conversation…what a silly thing to suggest.” Facts are, he was used MAINLY offensively. Unless you want to show times of Crosbys defense since they are so noticeable and there seems to be plenty of them.

I’ll wait for the “eye test” or “you just have to see him” comments.

 

[67 others]

That's after his 8.7m/y salary expired.

Yes and when he signed the 8.7m deal, the salary cap was 56 million.

 

[blundluntman]

I don't disagree with the idea that Crosby has shown himself to be a better defensive player than McDavid, but acting like he was a selke/elite level 2 way guy during his peak is just not true.

The version of Crosby a lot of people tend to argue against McDavid is basically his 2018-19 season where he had 100 points and finished top 5 in selke voting (a very impressive season obviously)

Either way, 2019 Crosby and 2011-14 Crosby simply aren't the same player. Crosby was decent defensively during those years, but he didn't "do it all" well enough to make up for the difference between them offensively back then.

I wouldn't take 94 Fedorov or 01 Sakic over peak McDavid, if Crosby was a lesser two way guy than those two, why would that be the reason to choose him over McDavid? You might as well argue Crosby was McDavid's equal defensively. I don't completely agree, but it's easier to entertain.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

He still never had a playoff run at the same level of Mcdavid this year, and he also was not able to come close to Mcdavid’s dominance year for year. Projecting Crosby’s partial season’s over a full 82 is also irrelevant because other players like Stamkos would have great numbers those years as well.

The league is so much softer and wide open now. Guys like Kucherov and Mackinnon are hitting 140+ points. Doesn't make 150 that special considering that fact. 25 year old Crosby would be neck and neck with McDavid in today's league.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Their dominance over their peers is actually quite similar. Crosby simply had to deal with catastrophic injuries which reduced his trophy case. But actual level of play is similar, current era is just higher scoring.

06-07 to 13-14 ppg leaders

Crosby 1.42
Malkin 1.22
Ovechkin 1.18
St Louis 1.07
Thornton 1.05

16-17 to 23-24 ppg leaders

McDavid 1.56
Kucherov 1.41
MacKinnon 1.30
Draisaitl 1.30
Panarin 1.19

 

[IceManCat]

Hard to pick against Crosby

The league is so much softer and wide open now. Guys like Kucherov and Mackinnon are hitting 140+ points. Doesn't make 150 that special considering that fact. 25 year old Crosby would be neck and neck with McDavid in today's league.

Yep

 

[I am not exposed]

Hard to pick against Crosby



Yep

It's actually very easy to considering McDavid is the better player. At worst you can say they are on the same tier.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

IMO McDavid is better than Crosby in the same sense (but to a much lesser degree) that Gretzky was better than Messier. Both Hart level players who could give you very different contributions. Both could single-handedly put a franchise into contention under favorable conditions.

But between the two of them, there’s never really a question that you want the otherworldly scorer, over the all-round contributor with high intangibles. A McDavid level scorer is a unique weapon whose impact can’t be approximated by any other combination of players.

These are the sort of weird takes these threads always devolve to. The reality is that Gretzky, McDavid, Messier, and Crosby are all very different players.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

It's actually very easy to considering McDavid is the better player. At worst you can say they are on the same tier.

It's actually crazy how easy it is to pick McDavid over Crosby and people are still in here writing paragraphs and paragraphs

 

[ReimanSum1908]

They're both generational talents, but it's hard not to hold McDavid as being one step ahead of Crosby.

For the moment, I would have them in the same tier with McDavid as the clear superior; however, if he displays Crosby's longevity, he would leap into the echelon occupied by Gretzky alone.

 

[tarheelhockey]

These are the sort of weird takes these threads always devolve to. The reality is that Gretzky, McDavid, Messier, and Crosby are all very different players.

What’s weird about saying you’d rather have the clear-cut most skilled scorer in the world, something that appears less than once a generation and impacts W/L outcomes on the most direct level, instead of a more toolsy player who “only” peaks out at a Hart level?

Characterizing that as a weird take is the weird take.

 

[Regal]

What’s weird about saying you’d rather have the clear-cut most skilled scorer in the world, something that appears less than once a generation and impacts W/L outcomes on the most direct level, instead of a more toolsy player who “only” peaks out at a Hart level?

Characterizing that as a weird take is the weird take.

Because the difference between Gretzky and Messier is significantly greater than the difference between McDavid and Crosby. It’s a bit of a weird comparison.

 

[crowfish]

The league is so much softer and wide open now. Guys like Kucherov and Mackinnon are hitting 140+ points. Doesn't make 150 that special considering that fact. 25 year old Crosby would be neck and neck with McDavid in today's league.

1) MacKinnon and Kucherov hit 140+ points in a different season than McDavids 153 pts. The 2nd highest scorer in 2022-23 had 128 points, but that was McDavids own teammate. As far as players who didn't have a positive correlation to McDavid's scoring, the highest was Kucherov with 113 points, a full FORTY points less than McDavid.

2) McDavid during that 153-point season led the league in goals & assists both in totals and per/game. That has only been done by Gretzky, Lemieux, and Howe. Crosby never came close to doing that, even in his partial seasons where he had his highest pts/game. I should also point out that leading the league in goals & assists is completely neutral to how high or low-scoring the league is.

 

[Skolman]

i don't know how to answer the question other than this:

Oilers fans are desperate to tell you how much better than Sid McDavid is.

Penguins fans don't give a f*** about the Oilers or McDavid. I do find it weird how much of your own self-worth you guys attach to McDavid. Given that, I can understand why all the losing you guys do makes you extra salty.

This is the most comical thing I've read on HF in a while..

 

[Fatass]

Crosby is a key to three Cups. McDavid had a chance to be the key in a game seven but got zero points in a one goal loss. Imo McDavid needs to be the key guy in winning a Cup before he can be on Crosby’s level.

 

[Offtheboard412]

What’s weird about saying you’d rather have the clear-cut most skilled scorer in the world, something that appears less than once a generation and impacts W/L outcomes on the most direct level, instead of a more toolsy player who “only” peaks out at a Hart level?

Characterizing that as a weird take is the weird take.

They probably find it odd to characterize Crosby as just a "toolsy" player when he himself was the best offensive player in the league during his prime. Injuries hurt his hardware collection a lot yet he still managed to win 3 Ted Lindsays.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

They probably find it odd to characterize Crosby as a "toolsy" player when he himself was the best offensive player in the league during his prime. Injuries hurt his hardware a lot yet he still managed to win 3 Ted Lindsays.

Crosby decided he needed to improve his scoring and then immediately won the Rocket (McDavid too but Crosby did it twice).

It's not like we're talking about Jonny Toews here. Crosby was "toolsy" and also led the f***ing NHL in scoring in a lower scoring era.

 

[Offtheboard412]

Crosby decided he needed to improve his scoring and then immediately won the Rocket (McDavid too but Crosby did it twice).

It's not like we're talking about Jonny Toews here. Crosby was "toolsy" and also led the f***ing NHL in scoring in a lower scoring era.

That's what I mean. If you actually compare their careers season by season Crosby and McDavid actually had very similar careers up until year 6 when the concussions happened for Crosby and that's where the comparison suddenly gets blurry as we didn't ever get to really see a healthy peak Crosby. We're talking about a guy who lead the NHL in ppg 6 times (5 if you don't want to count 11/12. He was also first in ppg in 07/08 up until his injury, came back and finished second one point off Ovechkin's pace). The guy won the Hart, Art Ross and Pearson at 19. Jonathan Toews he was most certainly not.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Crosby is a key to three Cups. McDavid had a chance to be the key in a game seven but got zero points in a one goal loss. Imo McDavid needs to be the key guy in winning a Cup before he can be on Crosby’s level.

Crosby in the final 2 games of the Pens 2009 cup win:
0pts
-1

Apparently Crosby himself wasn't on revisionist history's version of 'Crosby's level'.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Because the difference between Gretzky and Messier is significantly greater than the difference between McDavid and Crosby. It’s a bit of a weird comparison.

But I already said exactly that:

“IMO McDavid is better than Crosby in the same sense (but to a much lesser degree) that Gretzky was better than Messier”

They probably find it odd to characterize Crosby as just a "toolsy" player when he himself was the best offensive player in the league during his prime. Injuries hurt his hardware collection a lot yet he still managed to win 3 Ted Lindsays.

And I already said that too:

“instead of a more toolsy player who “only” peaks out at a Hart level”


Perhaps the point seems odd because people are only reading fragments of it?

 

[IceManCat]

It's actually very easy to considering McDavid is the better player. At worst you can say they are on the same tier.

better at scoring points maybe? Certainly not better at the other aspects of the game

 

[BelovedIsles]

For my money, I prefer Crosby’s play style. He could beat you in so many ways. Skate through 5 defenders effortlessly, deke you out, beat you down low, grind you along the boards. Just pure dominant shifts.