Is 4 Nations a “Best on Best”?

[ToDavid]

Russia has been non factor in best-on-best tournament for ages. not sure why it would change now. Finland and Sweden are by far better.
Russia and USA are battling for 4th place here. Names mean nothing if you can't deliver like those two nations.

Kind of hard to say too much about past results when there hasn't been a best-on-best tournament in over a decade. Canada and the U.S. are favourites. Russia would likely be about even with Sweden and Finland. They've got more elite talent than they did in 2014. D is still a weakness but not as bad as it was then.

 

[GuyCANCZE]

I think the lack of high end goalies is overblown. First of all, they have an absolutely elite group of forwards and defensemen. Binnington had a pretty decent year last year with a .913 SV% and 2.84GAA, he isn't some scrub goalie. Hasn't been as good this year but again, people act like they're putting a pylon in net.

In 2014, there were even some who thought Canada's weakness was in net before the Olympics.

Not saying Binner or Hill are Carey Price but...
("Goaltending was the main concern for the Canadian men's ice hockey team ahead of the 2014 Olympics but Carey Price was up for the task, proving a stable force in net en route to winning a gold medal.
Price registered two shutouts in four games during Canada's golden run, including Sunday's 3-0 win over Sweden in the tournament's finale that drew praise from his team mates.")

ALSO, somewhat related...In 2002, some scrub reporter (for the Globe and Mail IIRC) criticized Atlantic Canada because Al MacInnis was the only player from the region (I believe if you do the math based on the population of Atlantic Canada there should be about 1.5 players...so, yeah, Atlantic Canada was severely underrepresented in 2002. Sheesh.) I am glad that this time round Atlantic Canada has three players. Punching above their weight.

 

[Voight]

In 2014, there were even some who thought Canada's weakness was in net before the Olympics.

Not saying Binner or Hill are Carey Price but...
("Goaltending was the main concern for the Canadian men's ice hockey team ahead of the 2014 Olympics but Carey Price was up for the task, proving a stable force in net en route to winning a gold medal.
Price registered two shutouts in four games during Canada's golden run, including Sunday's 3-0 win over Sweden in the tournament's finale that drew praise from his team mates.")

ALSO, somewhat related...In 2002, some scrub reporter (for the Globe and Mail IIRC) criticized Atlantic Canada because Al MacInnis was the only player from the region (I believe if you do the math based on the population of Atlantic Canada there should be about 1.5 players...so, yeah, Atlantic Canada was severely underrepresented in 2002. Sheesh.) I am glad that this time round Atlantic Canada has three players. Punching above their weight.

This is why it's really dumb that they chose Montembault over Thompson just so "Quebec could be represented" ... like who cares. You need the best players, no need to make it political.

 

[GuyCANCZE]

This is why it's really dumb that they chose Montembault over Thompson just so "Quebec could be represented" ... like who cares. You need the best players, no need to make it political.

I think they went with Monty because of his success at the Worlds where he was the starter and Canada won gold (.939 SVP)

To Thompson's credit though -- he also showed up for a Worlds (.881 SVP, and silver).

And I don't think Thompson's numbers were as good as Monty's when the team was selected...I can't recall exactly.

Now though, I agree -- Thompson looks the better choice...now.

I am also not so sure they went for Monty because he is from Québec. I think they took the best players (or whom they thought were the best players).

Otherwise you might have seen LAF on the team...

 

[Razamanaz]

No.

Coz top dog Miro Heiskanen is out, out, out for Finland. And you know it .

Finland is born under the wrong sign what comes to their back-end this time around; everybody and his dog ... well, half of it anyway is off/out of it. No hallelujah moments to be seen there at Finland defenders-end, what it seems.

Anyway and anyhow Finland almost always find a way to succed - otherwise they wouldn't even be in this Top Four-tournament!

Even if they (Finland) have a mountain to climb.

But with a little (big!) part sisu, proper one-for-all-all-for-one good ol' Finland hockey and a thunderclap power play with no more and no less than five forwards(!) goin' forward Finland can do it.

And go ahead goalies of course.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Injuries and back selections don't stop it from being best on best

Lemieux was hurt in 1996 and 1998. Still best on best.
Crosby wasn't picked in 2006. Yzerman wasn't picked in 1987. Still best on best.

Injuries are part of hockey. Shitty management is part of hockey.

Systematically excluding players/teams is what stops it from being best on best.

McDavid was not allowed to play for Canada in 2016. Not best on best.
Hull was not allowed to play for Canada in 1972. Not best on best.

Russia was not allowed in 2025. Not best on best.
Swedes played alongside Canadians in 1979. Not best on best.

Restricting Finland/Sweden from picking the teams they want is against the nature of best on best.

The only weird edge case is 1991. While there were no formal restrictions on teams, the Soviets functionally sent a B team as the Soviet Union was collapsing and they were scared of defections. It was the equivalent of Canada not sending McDavid, MacKinnon, and Crosby for political reasons. It ruins a victory.

 

[Jaska]

Population of Finland is equal to population of Minnesota. We'll be OK.

 

[matsqq]

I think they could either :
A) have made some kind of pre-tournament between germany, switzerland, slovakia, denmark and some other countries and hold it in Europe to take two spots
...
B) or just let Switzerland and Slovakia get two spots.

Then Russia could participate with players that do not play in the KHL and the could just be named "russian athletes in North America" or whatever. Czechs could also play, as well as FInland Sweden, USA, and Canada.

Then four teams in two groups based on NHL players ranking made by experts in north america , probably something like :

Canada
Russian athletes
Finland
Slovakia

USA
Sweden
Czechs
Switzerland

and the top 2 teams in each group gets to the semifinals

That would be better, because now its more like a "gimmick" tournament.

 

[Razamanaz]

Population of Finland is equal to population of Minnesota. We'll be OK.

Well, they don't call it Finnesota for no reason at all, remember.

 

[Ducati Boy]

Imagine an article discussing the 'best-of-the-best' hotels in your city. The article looks in comparative detail at 4 of the 5 hotels most widely to be considered the top digs in town (although one is having ethical/legal issues and so is left out of the article).

And then readers chime in the article's comment section how this can't really be called a 'best-of-the-best' article because the hotels widely ranked #6-10, almost universally considered to be a tier below the top 5, were not included.

Go figure.

 

[heksagon]

But it’s really a stretch to argue that since Finland has a few Euro-based players who might be marginally better than the 4th liners or bottom pairing DF on the current team, the entire tournament is not a best-on-best.

Well it's a little bit more substantial than that, because we are completely missing a puck mover / offensive D-man from the blueline. We will run 5 forwards on the PP because of that (lol), and might struggle to move the puck up the ice on 5v5 too. So missing on a player like Sami Vatanen, Mikko Lehtonen, Atro Leppänen etc. from Europe does sting a lot. They would have a bigger role than bottom pair; a role of top puck mover and PP quarterback. On forwards I agree though, there would be barely any upgrades from Europe.

It certainly does not ruin the whole tournaments status as best-on-best, but this is technically not the best Finland we could assemble right now.

 

[Ducati Boy]

Well it's a little bit more substantial than that, because we are completely missing a puck mover / offensive D-man from the blueline. We will run 5 forwards on the PP because of that (lol), and might struggle to move the puck up the ice on 5v5 too. So missing on a player like Sami Vatanen, Mikko Lehtonen, Atro Leppänen etc. from Europe does sting a lot. They would have a bigger role than bottom pair; a role of top puck mover and PP quarterback. On forwards I agree though, there would be barely any upgrades from Europe.

It certainly does not ruin the whole tournaments status as best-on-best, but this is technically not the best Finland we could assemble right now.

I'll take your word for it that those players might upgrade Finland's D a bit, but I think you'd have to agree with me that someone claiming the absence of a Sami Vatanen, Mikko Lehtonen, or Atro Leppänen somehow diminishes the tournament, is a bit... rich.