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Interesting Stats to Dissect: Giveaways

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The stat says more about the player’s style more than carelessness with the puck. Drai and McDavid are both players that have the puck a lot and have a pass first mentality. From what I’ve seen, MacKinnon and Ovi tend to shoot more often once they have the puck so they’re less prone to giveaways. I am pretty shocked that Pettersson is that far down the list though.
 
Doctor No said:
This is a good point - ultimately, what is a "giveaway" (or a "hit", or even sometimes a "shot on goal") is determined by the official scorer.

Generally, the players who will appear near the tops of this list will be those who: (1) have the puck a lot [you can't give the puck away unless you have it to begin with], and (2) play in rinks where the official scorer has a liberal definition of "giveaway" [since they'll have that scorer in half of their games].

Adjusting for these two effects is very difficult (impossible?) but useful.
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And once it's properly defined, what even is the value of it? Trying to beat a guy at your blue line when you're last guy back and coughing it up is a lot different than getting your pass picked off on a 2on1 all the way down the rink when you have teammates back in position.
 
Whatever your home arena is heavily skews these stats. Especially when talking about giveaways, because not only is it subjective what is called a giveaway, but you can also assign a takeaway to the opposing team rather than a giveaway. I created my own list that only included road games and it’s a lot more telling. I won’t include numbers but the top 20 for most giveaways/60 following OPs rules are:
-Forwards
Malkin
Marner
Konecny
Panarin
Kucherov
Pastrnak
Getzlaf
Scheifele
Tkachuk
Barzal
Ovechkin
Pacioretty
Debrincat
Hall
Backstrom
Huberdeau
Laine
Stamkos
Eichel
Marchessault

-Defense
Muzzin
Klingberg
Bear
Chychrun
Letang
Theadore
Chara
Mcavoy
Severson
Carlson
Lindholm
Karlsson
Marino
Ekblad
Keith
Krug
Burns
Hughes
Mcdonagh
Hronek
 
Korg said:
Giveaways and takeways are useless unless you only use away numbers + average give/takeaways of 2-3 home games.

For example,

NYI home games, 17.70 giveaways/60, 1st in NHL
NYI road games, 7.96 giveaways/60, 15th in NHL

Barzal home games, 6.59 giveaways/60
Barzal away games, 2.41 giveaways/60
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NYI also notorious for being very generous in regards to another nothing stat, hits.
 
Giveaways suffer from the same issues that other stats like controlled zone entries, penalties drawn, and points do in the opposite direction: Certain players are tasked with carrying the puck more frequently than others which makes it easier to rack these stats up.

Mathew Barzal, for example, is always near the top of the league in controlled zone entries and penalties drawn, but he's also always near the top of the league in giveaways. This doesn't mean that he is actually the best at entering the zone with puck control or drawing penalties, or that he is the worst at giving the puck away; all it means is that he is given the opportunity to do these things most frequently.

Scorekeeper bias also really skews this stuff.
 
A couple things I noticed while compiling this list.

First and foremost the extremely high time on ice threshold vas very restricting.
Hronek was number 20 on the list yet number 34 without ice time exclusions, and not a single player between him and first played under 15 minutes a night. Same for forwards, with Marchessault being 37th in all actuality with only 7 players playing less than 15 minutes above him. Notable names excluded because of this and their ranking amongst their position:
Domi (1st)
J. Hughes (7th)
Svechnikov (27th)
Dahlin (1st)
Bowey (6th)
Dermott (8th)
Deangelo (25th)

Other thing I noticed was the Flames, Oilers, and Islander arenas all seem to over report giveaways in comparison to the league. Gaudreau who is 12 on this list drops to 36th only using road games with OPs other rules still present. Same for Mcdavid (35th), Draisatl (26th), Backlund (34th) and Beauvillier who I still haven’t even found on the rankings.

Could be more examples but that’s what immediately popped out to me.
 
Toronto seems guilty of under reporting their young forwards while everyone else on their teams rankings line up. Marner, Nylander and Matthews finish 9th, 55th and 56th on this list, while on only allowing road games they finish 2nd, 24th, and 31st respectively. Yet their other forwards line up pretty well ironically.
 
John Eichel da GOAT said:
I was thinking that too with Ovechkin for example. Dude shoots more than he passes so wouldnt Backstrom have more giveaways forcing the puck to AO?


So then why is Kucherov high and Point low? They would be tracked the same. Same with Pasta/Marchand high and Bergeron low? We know Bergeron is a consistent Selke candidate. This stat relates to his game pretty well I'd say.
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Because some players are line the line drivers on their team and carry the puck a lot more. Marchand/Pasta are typically the ones with the puck and entering the zone with Bergeron doing more of the dirty work.

Same can be said for Kuch/Point
 
John Eichel da GOAT said:
I looked up this stat when someone said Pasta gives the puck away a lot and was shocked to see he was correct and even more shocked to see some of the names high up.

Shockingly high: Barzal, Pasta, Malkin, Panarin, Draisaitl, Marner, McDavid, Marchand, Kucherov, Eichel, Klingber, Keith, Heiskanen, Chabot, McAvoy.

Shockingly low: Point, Boeser, Landeskog, Pettersson, Giroux, Kane, Ristolainen, Hedman, Fowler, Sergachev.

Sorry for the long post, but I think this is a rpetty important stat to look at when talking about overall game.
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Worth also looking at takeaways. Some of the guys high on giveaway have near or more takeaways (Malkin, Marner etc.). Most years giveaways is hands down the Johnny Gaudreau award except he doesn't have the takeaways to go with.
 
More like uninteresting stat that means nothing to dissect.

It is funny that Ekblad, Matheson and Yandle were all in the top ten of giveaways last time I checked.
 
Rants Mulliniks said:
Worth also looking at takeaways. Some of the guys high on giveaway have near or more takeaways (Malkin, Marner etc.). Most years giveaways is hands down the Johnny Gaudreau award except he doesn't have the takeaways to go with.
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Pretty cool results and some obvious:

15 years takwaways/60:
1. Stone
2. Datsyuk
3. Grabner
4. Marner
5. Arnason
6. Mattews
7. ROR
8. Riley Nash
9. McDavid
10. Backlund

5 years worth of takeaways/60:
1. Stone
2. Marner
3. Malkin
4. matthews
5. Forsberg
6. McDavid
7. Grabner
8. Skinner
9. Backlund
10. Armia

A great reference for the next time "Stone is overrated" pops up. I was shocked to see Skinner too there. I love to rip on him lately and thats a point for him.
 
Yepthatsme said:
A couple things I noticed while compiling this list.

First and foremost the extremely high time on ice threshold vas very restricting.
Hronek was number 20 on the list yet number 34 without ice time exclusions, and not a single player between him and first played under 15 minutes a night. Same for forwards, with Marchessault being 37th in all actuality with only 7 players playing less than 15 minutes above him. Notable names excluded because of this and their ranking amongst their position:
Domi (1st)
J. Hughes (7th)
Svechnikov (27th)
Dahlin (1st)
Bowey (6th)
Dermott (8th)
Deangelo (25th)

Other thing I noticed was the Flames, Oilers, and Islander arenas all seem to over report giveaways in comparison to the league. Gaudreau who is 12 on this list drops to 36th only using road games with OPs other rules still present. Same for Mcdavid (35th), Draisatl (26th), Backlund (34th) and Beauvillier who I still haven’t even found on the rankings.

Could be more examples but that’s what immediately popped out to me.
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True. I tried to find an even number for TOI, but can obviously expand it further. Guys like Rantanen were left out because of injuries when obviously theyre elite and should be looked at.
 
What is a giveaway? A dump in that the opposing defense gets is marked as a giveaway. Its not marked by the team as a turnover.
 
I'm sure it's not coincidence that players like Barzal and Kucherov are also players who carry the puck the most for their team.

The player who carries the puck into the zone is the one most likely to give it away after all.
 
Obviously since not every arena uses the same consistency for this stat, its hard to take it too extremely, but you can definitely point to it for arguing players. Its not a coincidence that Selke candidates are at the bottom of the giveaway list then guys like Stone and Datsyuk were at the top of takeaways.
 
Shockingly high : Playmakers
Shockingly low : goalscorers

yep really surprised that pass first players are top in GA
 
Giveaways is trash stat. It's not just a matter of people having different definitions, it's a matter of people applying those different definitions to players differently based on what color jersey they are wearing. The Islanders and Rangers were first and second in giveaways/60 at home this year. But when the Rangers visited the Islanders their giveaway rate was cut in half. The same held when the Islanders visited the Rangers.
 
Roksta said:
Shockingly high : Playmakers
Shockingly low : goalscorers

yep really surprised that pass first players are top in GA
Click to expand...
Lots of variability in the stat but at least in Marner's case, it lines up with the eye test as he often busts his butt to get back and steals pucks. Yes he'll give it away but he frequently steals it, so variability aside, it's reflective.
 
As a Leaf fan Marner isn't shockingly high, he's very bad for turnovers and I'm unsurprised to see Matthews and Nylander far lower.
 
Giveaways and takeaways always seemed like a fairly arbitrary stat to me, hence why I typically don't pay attention to it. I find it somewhat linked with the player's playstyle. Someone that's relied on to carry the puck should naturally have more giveaways, and someone that doesn't should naturally have more takeaways, or at least fewer giveaways.
 
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