Integration of Negro league into major league (baseball)stats finally providing return for families

LadyStanley

Registered User
Sep 22, 2004
107,838
20,682
Sin City

jigglysquishy

Registered User
Jun 20, 2011
7,903
8,069
Regina, Saskatchewan
Would love if the NHL did this.

It's ridiculous that the NHA records aren't integrated. The PCHA/WHL records should be integrated. I would prefer WHA records are integrated, but I understand why they won't.

But excluding the NHA is really stupid.
 
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GindyDraws

Registered User
Mar 13, 2014
2,949
2,253
Indianapolis
Would love if the NHL did this.

It's ridiculous that the NHA records aren't integrated. The PCHA/WHL records should be integrated. I would prefer WHA records are integrated, but I understand why they won't.

But excluding the NHA is really stupid.
100+ years later, it's all about sticking it to Eddie Livingstone.
 

KevFu

Registered User
May 22, 2009
9,301
3,523
Phoenix from Rochester via New Orleans
Would love if the NHL did this.

It's ridiculous that the NHA records aren't integrated. The PCHA/WHL records should be integrated. I would prefer WHA records are integrated, but I understand why they won't.

But excluding the NHA is really stupid.

I'm not a good hockey historian, so I can't really speak to the ridiculousness" of it. The thing is that baseball -- by it's organizational structure -- is just different.

The National Hockey League is a league. NHL records are NHL records. WHA teams were in a different league than the NHL teams, so the NHL doesn't include them. That's not how baseball works.

"Major League Baseball" is NOT a league. Well, it "Kind of Is" now, but not really -- there's two sets of awards still! Saying NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB are the Big Four Sports Leagues is a a ret-con myth that Peter Ueberoth pulled off in the 1980s.


There were dozens and dozens of pro baseball leagues; and fighting among them for players, territory, etc. So a governing organization was set up to classify all the leagues for the purposes of respecting contracts and territory. That organization has changed names a lot.

The AL and NL became the only two Major Leagues by "winning" the league wars (with a handshake agreement that created the World Series)
- that agreement ALSO said they'd respect each other's records
- By winning an anti-trust lawsuit vs the Federal League

After the Black Sox scandal, "baseball" hired a commissioner. He was the leader of that governing organization. Over time, the affiliate system made everyone else accept "minor league" status. And the PCL was last league to attempt to be a major league in the early 1950s (they were reclassified to "Open League" above Triple A, below Major. But the Dodgers/Giants moving crushed that).

"Major League Baseball" was a company created to sell TV rights in the late 50s. It's owned by the owners of the AL and NL.

Then baseball needed a new commissioner in the 1980s and asked Peter Ueberoth. He had conditions: The AL and NL headquarters should be in the same office as the commissioner; and that building needs to be in New York City. And he ordered his secretary to stop answering the phone "Office of the Commissioner of Baseball" and START answering it "Major League Baseball."

He also mandated that every TV broadcast say you can't rebroadcast games without the expressed written consent of "Major League Baseball and the Office of the Commissioner of Baseball" -- forcibly merging the legal body and media company in the minds of everyone.


As for the record book, the CLASSIFICATION of major means their records are equal to one another, as per the agreements they've been working under since 1901.

The AL and NL are different leagues. Never played each other until 1997. So separate doesn't matter. That's why Babe Ruth has 714 home runs, and not 706 AL home runs. And why Pujols is 4th all time with 703 and not 4th in the NL with 585.

It's not adding "outside leagues" to the record books of ONE LEAGUE.

It's adding 7 more to the list of six. There's been SIX Major Leagues from 1968-2023.

That's when the governing body -- "The Office of the Commissioner of Baseball" -- did a study that determined that four other leagues should be categorized as major retroactively. At the time, the commission on old stats said (paraphrasing) "We know there are multiple Negro Leagues that deserve major league classification, we just don't have the records/data at this time." So now they're finishing the job and we have 13 major leagues now.


(and BTW, The Negro Leagues weren't won league, they were 26+ leagues. Seven got selected as major, the other 19+ are still categorized as minor).
 
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oknazevad

Registered User
Dec 12, 2018
484
343
Only two corrections to the above I'd add is that:

Firstly, the 1968 historical records commission made an absolute error including the 1884 Union Association as a major league. Totally unworthy of the status.

Secondly, that since 2000, MLB has been one league, legally speaking. The AL & NL names are kept for historical consistency, but they're really conferences.
 

KevFu

Registered User
May 22, 2009
9,301
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Phoenix from Rochester via New Orleans
Only two corrections to the above I'd add is that:

Firstly, the 1968 historical records commission made an absolute error including the 1884 Union Association as a major league. Totally unworthy of the status.

Secondly, that since 2000, MLB has been one league, legally speaking. The AL & NL names are kept for historical consistency, but they're really conferences.

Legally speaking yes, the NL and AL offices were merged in the 1999-2000 off-season.

But they still don't act like one league with conferences like hockey or basketball. There's ONE set of awards in NBA, NHL, and two sets of awards in baseball: AL and NL.
 

KevFu

Registered User
May 22, 2009
9,301
3,523
Phoenix from Rochester via New Orleans
And MLB should look back, not changing to be more like the NBA or NHL.

When they expand, they should make a Western League of eight (so they can get more TV money by playing less games at 4 pm PT).

And make a fourth league of eight that's either the Southern League (of volunteers: the expansion team that'll probably go to Nashville or Carolina; TEX, HOU, MIA, TB; and three of ATL, WAS, KC, BAL).

OR the Continental League and put eight volunteers by financial status.

Four leagues of eight would be so much better than switching to West/East conferences that only the 8 teams in the West, and anyone who's stupid would want.
 

oknazevad

Registered User
Dec 12, 2018
484
343
Legally speaking yes, the NL and AL offices were merged in the 1999-2000 off-season.

But they still don't act like one league with conferences like hockey or basketball. There's ONE set of awards in NBA, NHL, and two sets of awards in baseball: AL and NL.
The United Press International versions the NFL awards (offensive and defensive players of the year and rookie of the year) were also separated by AFC and NFC until UPI dropped the awards after 1996. That's because prior to the merger they had separate NFL and AFL awards.
 

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