Inside The Scrum: Anthony Duclair

[Nyrvana]

By the way this is the goal he scored:

 

[Trxjw]

This isn't turning into another asinine McIlrath debate. Keep that garbage out of this thread.

 

[Beacon]

It's good when people here post that the Rangers have drafted badly the last 10 years. It allows me to quickly know who knows nothing about hockey and just uses wishful thinking emotions.

That we have drafted better than the vast majority of the NHL is a fact. It can be judged by the overall number of players we got, their minutes on the ice, stats, anything else.

But clueless fanboys here expect perfection every time. Scouts=psychics or else they are crap because there is always someone who pans out that they didn't draft.

The standard of, "is there someone who turned out better" is idiotic. It's like telling your stockbroker, "I know my stocks have been rising at double the rate of the market, but you are terrible because you missed some stock no other professional cared about last year."

We are drafting twice as many NHLers as the average team, but as we all know, every #10 pick should be a star (and never mind that no star was drafted at #10 since the 1980s).

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

Only because people don't know the meaning of "a lot of points."

Grachev had 1.3 ppg, while Duke had 1.7 ppg. Both are a lot, but that is a big gap. Just a few days ago someone here mocked me for saying that scoring a point per game in juniors as a 20 year old is not a lot. There are dozens and dozens of kids who score a point per game in juniors every season. There are a few dozen who score like Grachev. There are almost none who score 1.7 ppg like The Duke has. There are fewer still who did it without talented linemates.

No, not only because of that.

I wasn't even referring to points.

Grachev passed the eyeball test with flying colors.

He looked every bit as flashy and dominant as Duclair does right now. Grachev would dominate the puck for entire shifts, eventually bulling his way to the net or sniping a laserbeam into a corner. He had the combination of size, speed, and skill that every NHL star has. He just couldn't put it all together at the highest level. He was a great prospect. Some great prospects just don't pan out at the NHL level.

All I'm saying is to temper your expectations. It's fine to be excited, but you get into trouble when you start pencilling in lineups for 3-4 years down the road.

It reminds me of when people used to post lineups of our future defense, thinking we'd have a fully homegrown D-core:

Staal-Sanguinetti
Del Zotto-McIlrath
Erixon-Kundratek

That was going to be our defense, according to some. And Ethan Werek was going to be our future captain.

I do think Duclair has the compete level and drive that Grachev lacked, as well as a stronger all-around game and maturity level. I do think he'll become a top-6 NHL player. But let's stop overhyping and creating these virtually unreachable expectations. He's a great prospect. Let him develop. He has great potential. We'll see what happens.

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

It's good when people here post that the Rangers have drafted badly the last 10 years. It allows me to quickly know who knows nothing about hockey and just uses wishful thinking emotions.

That we have drafted better than the vast majority of the NHL is a fact. It can be judged by the overall number of players we got, their minutes on the ice, stats, anything else.

But clueless fanboys here expect perfection every time. Scouts=psychics or else they are crap because there is always someone who pans out that they didn't draft.

The standard of, "is there someone who turned out better" is idiotic. It's like telling your stockbroker, "I know my stocks have been rising at double the rate of the market, but you are terrible because you missed some stock no other professional cared about last year."

We are drafting twice as many NHLers as the average team, but as we all know, every #10 pick should be a star (and never mind that no star was drafted at #10 since the 1980s).

This, I agree with.

Some people don't understand that you don't draft elite franchise centers outside of the top-3. And since we never tank, we don't draft there.

They also quickly forget that we drafted Henrik Lundqvist in the 7th round. The best player on our team was exactly that diamond-in-the-rough star that they whine so much about us finding.

Our draft record over the past 5-7 years has been very good. There's no debate there. I like the way we've drafted for the most part. Hindsight is 20-20, but at the time, we've made smart picks almost every time.

 

[surlysailor]

This, I agree with.

Some people don't understand that you don't draft elite franchise centers outside of the top-3. And since we never tank, we don't draft there.

They also quickly forget that we drafted Henrik Lundqvist in the 7th round. The best player on our team was exactly that diamond-in-the-rough star that they whine so much about us finding.

Our draft record over the past 5-7 years has been very good. There's no debate there. I like the way we've drafted for the most part. Hindsight is 20-20, but at the time, we've made smart picks almost every time.

Not to nit pick, but plenty of top C's have been drafted outside the top 3. Datsyuk, Giroux, Getzlaf, Couture to name a few. Now the odds might be harder to draft outside the top 3 but still Turris, & Gagner were drafted before Couture. Now for people to complain about our drafting is pretty absurd considering we've picked top 10 once since 2004 and Clarkie and co have done a great job of drafting and finding UDFA.

 

[Trxjw]

If there was a real science to the draft, it would only be 3 rounds long. When you boil it down it's educated guessing and not much more than that. Duclair is a promising kid who looks, right now at least, like a steal where we grabbed him. However, he was at one point considered a guy who would assuredly go in the first round. He could have just as easily wound up as another Shane McColgan who was thought of as a potential top-10 pick the year before he was drafted.

Right now it looks like we had a very, very exciting draft in 2013. However, most people thought we had the same in 2008. It's anyone's guess as to how things will turn out. As far as the overall drafting of this team, it's been average. Average in the sense that we pretty much get a NHL-caliber player out of each draft class, but also in the sense that we seem to have a knack for whiffing early on in stacked draft classes in this century.

 

[Zil]

I love so many things about Duclair, but my favorite has to be the way the French Canadian announcers abruptly yell "Tony D!" when he scores. The cognitive dissonance of going from a stream of French to a bro-ish sounding exclamation is just wonderful.

 

[Ola]

Amazing that we may not have only found 1 steal in the 3rd round of that draft... but 2 (Buchnevich).

Tambellini, from everything that I've read, screams to me to be a heart and soul 3rd line player, similar to what Cally brought to the table.

But of all the 3rd round picks that I'm most excited to watch the development of, I'd say I'm hoping Keegan Iverson is the steal of this year's draft.

Its possible we found 2 steals in the 3rd round, but neither Duke nor Buch are really grade A prospects at this point.

I think you can compare both to Lauri Korpikoski who many should remember. In that comparision, at the same age Korpi was more likely to make it while both Duke and Buch are kind of at the same level as him but more reward/risk type of prospects.

I think this is a big year for Tony D. I think he can really establish himself if he can adopt to playing at this level and take his game to the next level.

In many areas Buch has really put everything together, but for him the bigger test comes when coming to NA.

Both Duke and Buch will also face a big challenge when they try to establish themselves in the NHL. I mean, both are the prototypical top line RW scorer types. Their first couple of years in the NHL, they have to work wtih a lot less ice time. 12-13 minutes a night. They will be asked to do a lot of things besides scoring etc.

It was some time ago since we managed to bring up a kid like this in the NHL. Its a bit of a diffrent process than bringing up a Dubi or Cally or Stepan or Hagelin or Koprikoski or Anisimov or Staal or McD or Girardi and so forth. Dawes and Prucha included... Who was the last winger we brought up in NY that was a prototypical goto scorer in Juniors? Besides Dawes, but I don't think he really is compareable to these guys because Dawes was a bit of a diffrent player. I mean we end up going back to Tony A, Kovalev and co.

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

Not to nit pick, but plenty of top C's have been drafted outside the top 3. Datsyuk, Giroux, Getzlaf, Couture to name a few. Now the odds might be harder to draft outside the top 3 but still Turris, & Gagner were drafted before Couture. Now for people to complain about our drafting is pretty absurd considering we've picked top 10 once since 2004 and Clarkie and co have done a great job of drafting and finding UDFA.

Yes of course but that's the exception rather than the rule.

And I made the point that while some clamor for us to "draft better" and find those diamond-in-the-rough players outside the top 5-10, we did just that with our best player: Henrik Lundqvist. Where would we be without Henrik the last 9 seasons? We may have been competing with Philly in the Bryzgalov sweepstakes.

The Flyers got lucky with Giroux, whose name Clarke couldn't even remember.

While it does happen, it's incredibly rare to find a top player outside of the first round, let alone a franchise talent. Our 1C was a 2nd rounder. Our elite goalie was a 7th. Girardi and Zuccarello were undrafted. Our scouting and drafting has certainly been above average in recent years. So the whining that we haven't hit a home run with an elite offensive star is unwarranted, especially when Kreider and Duclair may be just those types of players.

 

[chosen]

If Miller becomes a 2C, pushing Brass back to the 3C role, and one of Butcher or Duke becomes a 2LW, pushing Hagelin to 3LW, we'll have a very strong young lineup for a long time to come.

C: Stepan, Miller, Brass, Lindberg
LW: Kreider, Butcher/Duke, Hagelin, Hrivik/Bourque
RW: Nash, MZA, Fast/Haggerty/Kristo, Glass/goon-of-the-year

That's a very strong lineup.

No, it's very nice potential, something every team has.

In reality, the group includes 6 definite NHL-caliber players.

 

[Beacon]

Right now it looks like we had a very, very exciting draft in 2013. However, most people thought we had the same in 2008.

We got a first line center plus a 4th liner (Weise) and a third pair defenseman (Dizzy) out of that draft. I would be very happy if we got a first liner and a pair of depth players out of the 2013 draft.

 

[D713B]

Anyone that's actually watched Duclair and our other high risk/high reward later round prospects, such as Grachev (who's been mentioned in this thread), will not compare the two. They have two very different playing styles, attributes and Junior careers. They're not comparable. Duclair projects to be a legitimate skilled NHL prospect. Grachev for example was "raw" and possessed singular skills at that level which distinguished him. Ie. Speed and Size. Duclair has much more projectable talent, IQ and skill.

I'm very excited to watch his progression towards becoming a full time Ranger over the next couple seasons.

 

[Raspewtin]

Anyone that's actually watched Duclair and our other high risk/high reward later round prospects, such as Grachev (who's been mentioned in this thread), will not compare the two. They have two very different playing styles, attributes and Junior careers. They're not comparable. Duclair projects to be a legitimate skilled NHL prospect. Grachev for example was "raw" and possessed singular skills at that level which distinguished him. Ie. Speed and Size. Duclair has much more projectable talent, IQ and skill.

I'm very excited to watch his progression towards becoming a full time Ranger over the next couple seasons.

This needs to be friggin stickied.

He's not comparable to Grachev, Dawes, Thomas, or any other bust the Rangers drafted. He's Anthony Duclair.

 

[NYRSchrute217]

This needs to be friggin stickied.

He's not comparable to Grachev, Dawes, Thomas, or any other bust the Rangers drafted. He's Anthony Duclair.

I brought up Grachev as a boom or bust player, like Duclair seems to be. But at least Duclair should, minimum, be able to be a 3rd liner because of his hockey IQ.

Wasn't comparing them as players though.

 

[Synergy27]

But clueless fanboys here expect perfection every time. Scouts=psychics or else they are crap because there is always someone who pans out that they didn't draft.

This is certainly something that fan boys do, but to completely absolve the scouts from criticism is absurd. I think the Rangers have done a decent job at the draft overall considering where they usually pick, but they have also made critical blunders with relatively high picks that were evident to many in real time. McIlrath was one, and the pick was so reminiscent of Jessiman it's scary. If you criticize the pick as it's being made, you have every right to continue to do so as the prospect develops (or fails to).

 

[Trxjw]

We got a first line center plus a 4th liner (Weise) and a third pair defenseman (Dizzy) out of that draft. I would be very happy if we got a first liner and a pair of depth players out of the 2013 draft.

I'm not talking about the current state of things. I'm talking about the level of excitement after the year after the draft when Del Zotto, Stepan, and Grachev all looked like they were poised to have huge careers.

 

[Ola]

Anyone that's actually watched Duclair and our other high risk/high reward later round prospects, such as Grachev (who's been mentioned in this thread), will not compare the two. They have two very different playing styles, attributes and Junior careers. They're not comparable. Duclair projects to be a legitimate skilled NHL prospect. Grachev for example was "raw" and possessed singular skills at that level which distinguished him. Ie. Speed and Size. Duclair has much more projectable talent, IQ and skill.

I'm very excited to watch his progression towards becoming a full time Ranger over the next couple seasons.

Yeah, but, mmmhhh, don't sell Grachev short either.

The kid that supposedly only had speed and size was de facto Russia's No 1 center in a WJCs. I think we are entering, or have entered, a phase now where the kids that come into the league are going to have a tough time making the NHL.

The game of hockey changed a lot 9 years ago. I a hurry the Rich Pilons, Kevin Hatchers, Dave Lowery's, Dave Schatchards (sp) and co went out of the league, and for a good 5 years anybody and anyone that fitted the description of a NHL player made the NHL. All those guys are at the peak of their career just about right now, and it aint that easy for kids to come in and win spots and catch up with guys that has build on their game for 6-10 years.

The game changed a lot in the early 90's too.

During the 90' and 91' drafts the following more or less top line players entered the league:

90'
Owen Nolan
Nedved
Primaue
Jagr
Tkachuk
Ricci
Doug Weight
Renberg
Geoff Sanderson
Slava Kozlov
Zhamnov
Conroy
Lang
Kovalenko
And a bunch of other decent players.

91'
Lindros
Forsberg
Kovalev
Näslund
Rolston
Whitney (!)
Palffy
STumpel
Bondra
Nylander
Knuble
And a bunch of other decent players.

Jump forward 8 years:
99'
Sedin
Sedin
Havlat
Zetterberg
Ryan Malone

00'
Heatly
Gabby
Hartnell
(Frolov/Boyes/Williams/Stoll/Vermette/Lombardi...)

The diffrence is striking, I am only singling out somewhat top names among forwards, but it carries through all the way. AND especially if you look out side the top 2-3 picks. I mean in 00' you basically don't have a single good forward outside the top 3, in 90' you had like 15-20.

Anway, back to my point. Look at the awsome 03'-05', definitely compareable to the late 80's and early 90's drafts when the game changed too, and you now add 8-10 years to those drafts and end up today... Do we get the same result as in 99-00?

There are always going to be good players, especially in the top 2-3. And the odd sleeper, like Hank Zetterberg. But the league is full of players right now that entered it around during the years after the lockout and now are entering their absolute prime, and it aint going to be all that easy for the kids coming up.

And while we are at it, lets look at the top players in the 00' WJCs:
1 20 SEDIN, Henrik SWE F 7 4 9 13 6 9
2 14 KRAFT, Milan CZE F 7 5 7 12 0 8
3 12 SEDIN, Daniel SWE F 7 6 4 10 0 8
4 25 REID, Brandon CAN F 7 4 5 9 4 3
5 14 MOURATOV, Evgueni RUS F 7 6 2 8 4 8
6 27 TERESCHENKO, Alexei RUS F 7 3 5 8 2 6
7 5 LEWERSTROM, Erik SWE D 7 3 5 8 14 2
8 22 RIAZANTSEV, Alexandre RUS D 7 2 6 8 2 10
9 28 NYSTROM, David SWE F 7 2 6 8 2 6
10 12 SMIRNOV, Oleg RUS F 7 2 6 8 2 7
11 4 CONNE, Flavien SUI F 7 4 3 7 10 0
12 17 CHRISTEN, Bjorn SUI F 7 4 3 7 29 -1
13 14 BERGQVIST, Kenneth SWE F 7 3 4 7 2 7
14 16 HALLIN, Per SWE F 7 1 6 7 2 2
15 24 KRISTEK, Jaroslav CZE F 7 5 1 6 2 7
16 29 WICHSER, Adrian SUI F 7 5 1 6 4 0
17 21 AFANASENKOV, Dimitri RUS F 7 5 1 6 6 5
18 4 KRONWALL, Niklas SWE D 7 5 1 6 10 7
19 19 BERGLUND, Christian SWE F 7 4 2 6 4 3
20 25 SIVEK, Michal CZE F 7 3 3 6 4 4
21 4 TUKIO, Arto FIN D 7 3 3 6 6 2
22 26 OLVESTAD, Jimmie SWE F 7 3 3 6 8 10
23 23 MARTENSSON, Tony SWE F 7 2 4 6 2 2
24 27 HELFENSTEIN, Sven SUI F 7 2 4 6 2 -1
25 16 CEREDA, Luca SUI F 7 2 4 6 14 -2

Brandon Reid was awsome for Canada and I've been thinking about him lately when I've seen Duclair, I love Duclair but he got a few test to pass yet.

Top scorers at the 01' WJC's:
1 21 BRENDL, Pavel CZE F 7 4 6 10 8 8
2 22 RITA, Jani FIN F 7 8 1 9 0 5
3 24 DISALVATORE, Jon USA F 7 6 3 9 2 2
4 19 NEDOROST, Vaclav CZE F 7 4 5 9 0 7
5 19 HILBERT, Andy USA F 7 4 5 9 6 3
6 23 TAFFE, Jeff USA F 7 6 2 8 6 1
7 11 BLATNY, Zdenek CZE F 7 5 2 7 6 8
8 10 HAMALAINEN, Ville FIN F 7 4 3 7 0 4
9 17 LUNDMARK, Jamie CAN F 7 4 3 7 6 0
10 16 KLESLA, Rostislav CZE D 7 3 4 7 4 8
11 7 MONNET, Thibaut SUI F 7 2 5 7 6 -3
12 25 TCHISTOV, Stanislav RUS F 7 5 1 6 0 4
13 29 CAMMALLERI, Mike CAN F 7 4 2 6 2 -1
14 17 KOVALTCHOUK, Ilia RUS F 7 4 2 6 37 0
15 9 SPEZZA, Jason CAN F 7 3 3 6 2 -1
16 9 BALEJ, Jozef SVK F 7 3 3 6 4 1
17 10 CAVOSIE, Marc USA F 7 2 4 6 4 1
18 13 NEPRIAEV, Ivan RUS F 7 1 5 6 12 1
19 28 KOLTSOV, Konstantin BLR F 6 4 1 5 2 -1
20 15 BOUTOURLINE, Alexandre RUS F 7 4 1 5 8 1
21 18 YURYEV, Mikhail KAZ F 6 3 2 5 6 -3
22 18 SALMELAINEN, Tony FIN F 7 3 2 5 6 4
23 28 TORRES, Raffi CAN F 7 3 2 5 10 4
24 15 HEATLEY, Dany CAN F 7 3 2 5 10 2
25 9 CHUPRYS, Yaraslau BLR F 6 2 3 5 4 -1


My point is just this: Its awsome that we have two prospects who seem to get somewhat goto roles for their teams at the WJCs, and that they look good among their peers. But overall I am not very impressed by:

(1) the level of play out there on the ice in the last WJCs, especially Canada is not peaking right now and they provide a ton of depth when there is good depth among prospects. Guys like Reinhard, Bennet and co. Will they become big NHL stars? I would be suprised...

(2) I am not very impressed with how the avg kid is looking in the NHL right now.

This reminds me alot of those years in the late 90's and early 00's, I saw all WJCs and all games in them back then too, followed the kids a lot in the NHL too. We need not go back long at all to find every other big name prospect really make it, now its almost the opposite. It seems like every 10th big name prospect becomes something.

 

[Ola]

Anyone that's actually watched Duclair and our other high risk/high reward later round prospects, such as Grachev (who's been mentioned in this thread), will not compare the two. They have two very different playing styles, attributes and Junior careers. They're not comparable. Duclair projects to be a legitimate skilled NHL prospect. Grachev for example was "raw" and possessed singular skills at that level which distinguished him. Ie. Speed and Size. Duclair has much more projectable talent, IQ and skill.

I'm very excited to watch his progression towards becoming a full time Ranger over the next couple seasons.

Yeah, but, mmmhhh, don't sell Grachev short either.

The kid that supposedly only had speed and size was de facto Russia's No 1 center in a WJCs. I think we are entering, or have entered, a phase now where the kids that come into the league are going to have a tough time making the NHL.

The game of hockey changed a lot 9 years ago. I a hurry the Rich Pilons, Kevin Hatchers, Dave Lowery's, Dave Schatchards (sp) and co went out of the league, and for a good 5 years anybody and anyone that fitted the description of a NHL player made the NHL. All those guys are at the peak of their career just about right now, and it aint that easy for kids to come in and win spots and catch up with guys that has build on their game for 6-10 years.

The game changed a lot in the early 90's too.

During the 90' and 91' drafts the following more or less top line players entered the league:

90'
Owen Nolan
Nedved
Primaue
Jagr
Tkachuk
Ricci
Doug Weight
Renberg
Geoff Sanderson
Slava Kozlov
Zhamnov
Conroy
Lang
Kovalenko
And a bunch of other decent players.

91'
Lindros
Forsberg
Kovalev
Näslund
Rolston
Whitney (!)
Palffy
STumpel
Bondra
Nylander
Knuble
And a bunch of other decent players.

Jump forward 8 years:
99'
Sedin
Sedin
Havlat
Zetterberg
Ryan Malone

00'
Heatly
Gabby
Hartnell
(Frolov/Boyes/Williams/Stoll/Vermette/Lombardi...)

The diffrence is striking, I am only singling out somewhat top names among forwards, but it carries through all the way. AND especially if you look out side the top 2-3 picks. I mean in 00' you basically don't have a single good forward outside the top 3, in 90' you had like 15-20.

Anway, back to my point. Look at the 03'-05', and you know add 8-10 years to them...

There are always going to be good players, especially in the top 2-3. And the odd sleeper, like Hank Zetterberg. But the league is full of players right now that entered it around during the years after the lockout and now are entering their absolute prime, and it aint going to be all that easy for the kids coming up.

And while we are at it, lets look at the top players in the 00' WJCs:
1 20 SEDIN, Henrik SWE F 7 4 9 13 6 9
2 14 KRAFT, Milan CZE F 7 5 7 12 0 8
3 12 SEDIN, Daniel SWE F 7 6 4 10 0 8
4 25 REID, Brandon CAN F 7 4 5 9 4 3
5 14 MOURATOV, Evgueni RUS F 7 6 2 8 4 8
6 27 TERESCHENKO, Alexei RUS F 7 3 5 8 2 6
7 5 LEWERSTROM, Erik SWE D 7 3 5 8 14 2
8 22 RIAZANTSEV, Alexandre RUS D 7 2 6 8 2 10
9 28 NYSTROM, David SWE F 7 2 6 8 2 6
10 12 SMIRNOV, Oleg RUS F 7 2 6 8 2 7
11 4 CONNE, Flavien SUI F 7 4 3 7 10 0
12 17 CHRISTEN, Bjorn SUI F 7 4 3 7 29 -1
13 14 BERGQVIST, Kenneth SWE F 7 3 4 7 2 7
14 16 HALLIN, Per SWE F 7 1 6 7 2 2
15 24 KRISTEK, Jaroslav CZE F 7 5 1 6 2 7
16 29 WICHSER, Adrian SUI F 7 5 1 6 4 0
17 21 AFANASENKOV, Dimitri RUS F 7 5 1 6 6 5
18 4 KRONWALL, Niklas SWE D 7 5 1 6 10 7
19 19 BERGLUND, Christian SWE F 7 4 2 6 4 3
20 25 SIVEK, Michal CZE F 7 3 3 6 4 4
21 4 TUKIO, Arto FIN D 7 3 3 6 6 2
22 26 OLVESTAD, Jimmie SWE F 7 3 3 6 8 10
23 23 MARTENSSON, Tony SWE F 7 2 4 6 2 2
24 27 HELFENSTEIN, Sven SUI F 7 2 4 6 2 -1
25 16 CEREDA, Luca SUI F 7 2 4 6 14 -2

Brandon Reid was awsome for Canada and I've been thinking about him lately when I've seen Duclair, I love Duclair but he got a few test to pass yet.

Top scorers at the 01' WJC's:
1 21 BRENDL, Pavel CZE F 7 4 6 10 8 8
2 22 RITA, Jani FIN F 7 8 1 9 0 5
3 24 DISALVATORE, Jon USA F 7 6 3 9 2 2
4 19 NEDOROST, Vaclav CZE F 7 4 5 9 0 7
5 19 HILBERT, Andy USA F 7 4 5 9 6 3
6 23 TAFFE, Jeff USA F 7 6 2 8 6 1
7 11 BLATNY, Zdenek CZE F 7 5 2 7 6 8
8 10 HAMALAINEN, Ville FIN F 7 4 3 7 0 4
9 17 LUNDMARK, Jamie CAN F 7 4 3 7 6 0
10 16 KLESLA, Rostislav CZE D 7 3 4 7 4 8
11 7 MONNET, Thibaut SUI F 7 2 5 7 6 -3
12 25 TCHISTOV, Stanislav RUS F 7 5 1 6 0 4
13 29 CAMMALLERI, Mike CAN F 7 4 2 6 2 -1
14 17 KOVALTCHOUK, Ilia RUS F 7 4 2 6 37 0
15 9 SPEZZA, Jason CAN F 7 3 3 6 2 -1
16 9 BALEJ, Jozef SVK F 7 3 3 6 4 1
17 10 CAVOSIE, Marc USA F 7 2 4 6 4 1
18 13 NEPRIAEV, Ivan RUS F 7 1 5 6 12 1
19 28 KOLTSOV, Konstantin BLR F 6 4 1 5 2 -1
20 15 BOUTOURLINE, Alexandre RUS F 7 4 1 5 8 1
21 18 YURYEV, Mikhail KAZ F 6 3 2 5 6 -3
22 18 SALMELAINEN, Tony FIN F 7 3 2 5 6 4
23 28 TORRES, Raffi CAN F 7 3 2 5 10 4
24 15 HEATLEY, Dany CAN F 7 3 2 5 10 2
25 9 CHUPRYS, Yaraslau BLR F 6 2 3 5 4 -1

Compare it with the 05' WJCs
1 BERGERON Patrice CAN F 6 5 8 13 6 8 3 5
2 GETZLAF Ryan CAN F 6 3 9 12 8 14 0 14
3 OVECHKIN Alexander RUS F 6 7 4 11 4 7 1 6
4 CARTER Jeff CAN F 6 7 3 10 6 10 0 10
5 OLESZ Rostislav CZE F 7 7 3 10 12 9 1 8
6 MALKIN Evgeni RUS F 6 3 7 10 16 6 6 0
7 CROSBY Sidney CAN F 6 6 3 9 4 7 3 4
8 STAFFORD Drew USA F 7 5 4 9 14 4 7 -3
9 SALMONSSON Johannes SWE F 6 5 3 8 0 8 6 2
10 VRANA Petr CZE F 7 5 3 8 16 10 2 8
11 SHIROKOV Sergei RUS F 6 4 4 8 0 7 5 2
12 O'SULLIVAN Patrick USA F 7 2 6 8 12 6 10 -4
13 SUTER Ryan USA D 7 1 7 8 20 7 9 -2
14 STANCESCU Victor SUI F 6 5 2 7 10 7 3 4
15 LADD Andrew CAN F 6 3 4 7 2 11 0 11
16 FRITSCHE Dan USA F 7 3 4 7 22 5 8 -3
17 PERRY Corey CAN F 6 2 5 7 6 5 3 2
18 SODERBERG Carl SWE F 6 4 2 6 4 5 5 0
19 KESSEL Phil USA F 7 4 2 6 2 7 8 -1
20 RUZICKA Stefan SVK F 6 3 3 6 4 6 4 2
21 KASER Marco SUI F 6 3 3 6 6 3 6 -3
22 DAWES Nigel CAN F 6 2 4 6 6 8 0 8
23 PHANEUF Dion CAN D 6 1 5 6 14 8 1 7
24 VOROBIEV Dimitri RUS D 6 1 5 6 27 8 1 7
25 SCHREMP Robbie USA F 7 4 1 5 2 3 5 -2
26 ZAKHAROV Konstantin BLR F 6 3 2 5 6 4 5 -1
27 ROMY Kevin SUI F 6 3 2 5 8 6 6 0
28 PORTER Kevin USA F 7 3 2 5 6 6 8 -2
29 ERIKSSON Loui SWE F 6 2 3 5 0 3 4 -1


My point is just this: Its awsome that we have two prospects who seem to get somewhat goto roles for their teams at the WJCs, and that they look good among their peers. But overall I am not very impressed by:

(1) the level of play out there on the ice in the last WJCs, especially Canada is not peaking right now and they provide a ton of depth when there is good depth among prospects,

(2) I am not very impressed with how the avg kid is looking in the NHL right now.

This reminds me alot of those years in the late 90's and early 00's, I saw all WJCs and all games in them back then too, followed the kids a lot in the NHL too.

 

[Ola]

And just because Grachev didn't make it, it don't have to mean that there was something fundamentally wrong with him. It's tough to make it. Sometimes you more or less have to be top 3-4 among your peers to make it, everyone included.

 

[offdacrossbar]

grachev never figured out what kind of player he was.

when he was in juniors, he scored some gorgeous goals. snipes from the wing. power moves to the net. cycle give and gos. deflections. the whole shebang.

then he turned pro and his game went away. fast.

was it coaching in hartford ? was it confidence?

he never found his game. sad.

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

And just because Grachev didn't make it, it don't have to mean that there was something fundamentally wrong with him. It's tough to make it. Sometimes you more or less have to be top 3-4 among your peers to make it, everyone included.

Exactly.

Brilliant posts, Ola.

This is what I've been saying as well.

Grachev was a fantastic prospect.

Maybe he scored a bit less than Duclair in juniors, but he LOOKED just as flashy, just as dominant, and just as much of a "lock" to be a productive top-6 NHLer.

Like you said, some prospects just don't pan out, for any number of reasons, and it's not always simply because they were "a bust" or "overrated." Some prospects just aren't able to put it all together at the absolute highest level (in the NHL). Grachev didn't forget how to score. He just couldn't put it all together at the NHL level: bigger, smarter, harder, faster than any other league in the world.

While we should be excited about Duclair's progress since being drafted, we need to relax with the expectations of him dominating the same way in the NHL, and comparing him to current NHL stars. Pencilling him into a potential/hopeful lineup for 2-3 years down the road is silly. Remember when the same posters thought that Sanguinetti, Erixon, Del Zotto, Kundratek, and McIlrath would make up our entirely homegrown blue-line along with Staal. Del Zotto is hanging on by a thread after being given a chance by the defense-desperate Flyers, while the rest of them are outside the NHL looking in.

Be excited for his progress and development. Oooh and Ahhh for his highlight-reel goals, but let's stop overhyping our prospects with unfair expectations and pretending that performance against 18 year olds is comparable to performance and ability against men in the NHL.

I'm extremely high on Duclair, and I do think that he will likely have a successful NHL career as a top-6 scoring forward. But I'm not going to expect his road to the NHL to be a cakewalk, and I also won't be all that surprised if he doesn't actually pan out. He'd be far from the first uber-talented, flashy, dominant prospect to fall short of a successful NHL career.

Great posts as always, Ola. Such a pleasure reading your thoughts and comments.

 

[vipernsx]

grachev never figured out what kind of player he was.

when he was in juniors, he scored some gorgeous goals. snipes from the wing. power moves to the net. cycle give and gos. deflections. the whole shebang.

then he turned pro and his game went away. fast.

was it coaching in hartford ? was it confidence?

he never found his game. sad.

I was super excited about Grachev. IMO he used his size to dominate in Juniors. He relied on his physical gifts to a fault because he never developed how to play when he was no longer physically over powering. When the opposition was on par with him physically, he didn't have the commitment to keep improving.

Christian Thomas has an unbelievable NHL shot since Juniors. He lacks the size to play physical and the speed to play a non-physical game at the NHL level.

Duclair doesn't seem to have any of the weaknesses these players have. He's got skill, speed, hockey sense, etc.

 

[donpaulo]

good thread. Glad I dropped by in August to read it

I agree with the premise that not only did NY draft relatively well but critical drafting hindsight is pretty much counter productive.

There are so many reasons why a kid may have enough talent but just can't put it all together. Look no further than Don Murder Murdoch who was an outstanding Ranger yet enjoyed the nightlife a little too much and washed out. 5 goals in one fricking game folks !

From a Chuck O'Donnell Hockey Digest interview

http://nyrangerslegends.blogspot.jp/2006/09/don-murdoch.html

"People have no idea what I went through as a 20-year-old kid, I was strong mentally and had great support from my family. When I was scouting and recruiting, I ran into kids that had off-ice problems. I told them `Listen, you better get it together or this is where you're going to be.' I told them that I should have played 15 years in the NHL but my career was cut short because I didn't focus."

The competition is enough in itself, then there are injuries and numerous other issues. Look at Del Zotto, the kid was a lights out top 4 guy. He hit, made the long outlet pass and had a blast from the point. We loved the guy. No doubt that he has the talent. Yet can't seem to put it all together.

Danny Blackburn anyone ? injured while working out

Michael Sauer ? concussion issues have sidelined a promising career

the poor kid Cherepanov ? dies on the bench during a game

Making it to the show is hard enough, let alone staying there and being consistent

 

[Section32]

You can add Cherneski, who ruined his knee in his first pro game...which was in the AHL instead of NHL because Muckler was an arrogant fool.