In how deep pit is Czech hockey? - is there light in the end of their tunnel?

[singlesliceofcheese]

I really hope they and Slovakia turn things around.

 

[JabbaJabba]

About 20 games into the NHL season and there are a lot of positive signs for Czech hockey.

Pasternak is on another level this season and currently there are three Czechs in the top 30 in total points. Hertl has picked up after a slow start and Vrana continues to develop and improve and could get 30 goals this season. Kempny has been great, currently has point per game and Hronek is doing well considering the mess in Detroit. Zacha has played the best hockey of his career this season. He is just 22 so who knows what he can still develop into. Out of the goalies Rittich looks like a starter. Rookies look good so far, Chytil has four goals in six games, Necas has 12 points in 18 games (5th in points for Czechs), Kubalik looks like he belongs in NHL and even Chlapik has three points in seven games in Ottawa. Things seem to be going better even with few dissapointments but you can't have everyone succeeding at the same time.

Will be interesting to see, in what kind of point totals Czech players will end up this season and the next draft looks promising for this nation.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Still really far from the top-5 hockey nations. Things are getting somewhat better but until truly capable Czech starting goalie and at least a couple of top-4 Ds emerge that gap is going to be significant.

 

[smitty10]

I don't think they're in a hole at all. If anything, they've taken some pretty big steps over the past few years. The Czech team is a top 6 team in the world. They can beat any team on a good day, but wouldn't have that kind of luck consistently.

Palat-Krejci-Pastrnak
Vrana-Hertl-Voracek
Kubalik-Faksa-Kase
Simon-Kampf-Frolik
Necas

Kempny-Gudas
Simek-Hronek
Hajek-Rutta

Rittich
Mrazek
Francouz

The defense is suspect, but otherwise that's a good squad. Not to mention the fact that they have some promising youngsters who aren't on that roster.

 

[Lambo]

I don't think they're in a hole at all. If anything, they've taken some pretty big steps over the past few years. The Czech team is a top 6 team in the world. They can beat any team on a good day, but wouldn't have that kind of luck consistently.

Palat-Krejci-Pastrnak
Vrana-Hertl-Voracek
Kubalik-Faksa-Kase
Simon-Kampf-Frolik
Necas

Kempny-Gudas
Simek-Hronek
Hajek-Rutta

Rittich
Mrazek
Francouz

The defense is suspect, but otherwise that's a good squad. Not to mention the fact that they have some promising youngsters who aren't on that roster.

But Kampny, Hronek and Rutta are not really bad.

 

[smitty10]

But Kampny, Hronek and Rutta are not really bad.

They aren't bad. When I said suspect, I meant in comparison to the depth of their forward group. It's the weakest of the 3 areas.

 

[abo9]

I'll just start by saying that I'm not an expert of Czech hockey, far from it.

But the question got me curious as I thought there was good Czech talents in the league today, but I was surprised by the numbers:

2008-2009: 57 Czech players totalled 1456 points, good for the 3rd rank in terms of countries.

Players like Elias, Havlat, Krejci, Hemsky were thriving, and defensmen like Spacek, Zidlicky, Kubina, Kuba were on the top of their games.

vs

2018-2019: 40 Czech players totalled 724 points, and they ranked 6th amongst other countries. They were passed over by Sweden, Russia and Finland. Notable players were Pastrnak, Hertl, Krejci and Voracek, with Kempny, Hronek and Gudas leading the D in points.

One thing to note is that although the top 3 forwards have similar point totals (70-80), the dropoff afterwards is pretty brutal. 10 Czech players did not play 10 games last season, vs 6 ten years ago.

Also to consider: I'm eyeballing but most Czech players in 2008-2009 looked like they were 30 or over. The group of last year scored way less but also had numerous players in the 20-25 age group.

This, to me, suggests that the big hole in Czech talent was due to the lack of up and coming talent from arout 10 years ago. Therefore, there are only a few Czech players at the peak of their careers today.

Did something happen in Czech Republic about 10 years ago that made it so fewer players got to the NHL? Or even 20 years ago because I'm guessing that would be when these kids would have been developing?

 

[czechmate]

I don't think they're in a hole at all. If anything, they've taken some pretty big steps over the past few years. The Czech team is a top 6 team in the world. They can beat any team on a good day, but wouldn't have that kind of luck consistently.

Palat-Krejci-Pastrnak
Vrana-Hertl-Voracek
Kubalik-Faksa-Kase
Simon-Kampf-Frolik
Necas

Kempny-Gudas
Simek-Hronek
Hajek-Rutta

Rittich
Mrazek
Francouz

The defense is suspect, but otherwise that's a good squad. Not to mention the fact that they have some promising youngsters who aren't on that roster.

Apart from some exceptions, we had to witness a pretty brutal period (2008-2015) in terms of talent development. The last few years however have made me more positive. I'm not really concerned about our offense, we will have some great talent then and again. Our lack of defensive talent is a bit more problematic in that respect due to structural issues in Czech hockey.

But even though our D doesn't compare to the other top nations, it already looks so much more competitive than years ago; especially with the hockey that Kempny and Hronek are playing at the moment. Rittich and Mrazek showing solid performances as well. It seems like there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

It’s just that Czech players(more likely their agents) have little faith in clubs to develop players.

Pastrnak & Vrana had to go to Sweden; Bartosak, Faksa, Palat, Gudas, Vorachek, Musil, Kubalik & Zohorna all played in the CHL prior to the draft. You’ve got 6 of the u17 kids playing in Sweden or Finland, while a huge chunk of them are playing U20 which is wildly inappropriate.

 

[SoundAndFury]

It’s just that Czech players(more likely their agents) have little faith in clubs to develop players.

And why should they have that faith? Before Hertl, Czech clubs haven't been able to develop anything worth mentioning in years.

 

[Martinzcom]

And why should they have that faith? Before Hertl, Czech clubs haven't been able to develop anything worth mentioning in years.

And why should they have that faith? Before Hertl, Czech clubs haven't been able to develop anything worth mentioning in years.

I wouldn't say that. I mean, there are not many players who made it from Czech teams straight to the NHL, but they were able to produce some good prospects who made it to the NHL pretty quickly after moving to NA. I mean, guys like Chytil, Necas, Rutta, Simek, Kase... but Sweden or Finland are definitely better options for Czech prospects to develop, that's without a doubt.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I wouldn't say that. I mean, there are not many players who made it from Czech teams straight to the NHL, but they were able to produce some good prospects who made it to the NHL pretty quickly after moving to NA. I mean, guys like Chytil, Necas, Rutta, Simek, Kase... but Sweden or Finland are definitely better options for Czech prospects to develop, that's without a doubt.

Kase, Chytil and Necas belong to the post-Hertl generation.

That 2012 draft definitely was the turning point. Out of 30 Czech players in the NHL, 5 were drafted in a 6-year gap between 2000 - 2006, only 4 between 2006 and 2012 (those guys should be in their prime years now) and 13 between 2012 and 2017. So the shift was quite dramatic. Before that, before that turning point in 2012, Czech hockey was in very dire straits. And one really can't fault the young guys who wanted to break off of that system.

At the previous pace, Czechs would pretty much be behind Switzerland already.

 

[Czechboy]

Kase, Chytil and Necas belong to the post-Hertl generation.

That 2012 draft definitely was the turning point. Out of 30 Czech players in the NHL, 5 were drafted in a 6-year gap between 2000 - 2006, only 4 between 2006 and 2012 (those guys should be in their prime years now) and 13 between 2012 and 2017. So the shift was quite dramatic. Before that, before that turning point in 2012, Czech hockey was in very dire straits. And one really can't fault the young guys who wanted to break off of that system.

At the previous pace, Czechs would pretty much be behind Switzerland already.

Kase went through the AHL to get to the NHL. So did Necas. So did Chytil. So did Rittich.

It's very hard to find guys that went straight from the Extraliga to the NHL. Hertl did it. Rutta did it (but as a much older undrafted player). Simek went straight to the AHL. Jerabek went to the AHL as well.

Basically the Extraliga feeds our guys to the AHL not the NHL Kaut is another example.

I do think the Extraliga is not a good place to develop players. How many on our U17 team are already in Sweden. Most our picks are coming out of CHL or Sweden/Finland. Now some are going to Switzerland and Austria. It's very concerning.

I do have hope as a lot of our younger guys are really rounding out to more prominent NHLer's. As of today, we have 2 scorers in the Top 15 (Hertl and Pastrnak). For a brief moment we had 3 NHL starters as well. Then someone had to run over Francouz. I know he's the backup but Grubauer was out and he was getting starts.

So definitely some good but I feel it is almost in spite of poor Czech development. Pastrnak and Vrana went Sweden. Voracek went CHL. The only one is Hertl.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Like Germany should do, at what point does Czechia start funneling U16 players into regional teams through U20 that you can hothouse development?

You can have various age cohorts training together, then going out once a month to IIHF format tourneys with German, Slovak, Austrian, Hungarian, Romanian & Polish teams potentially.

The parent clubs should be able to retain registration of the players and be able to call them up to the men’s side if warranted, but the current system isn’t working.

 

[Jablkon]

Like Germany should do, at what point does Czechia start funneling U16 players into regional teams through U20 that you can hothouse development?

You can have various age cohorts training together, then going out once a month to IIHF format tourneys with German, Slovak, Austrian, Hungarian, Romanian & Polish teams potentially.

The parent clubs should be able to retain registration of the players and be able to call them up to the men’s side if warranted, but the current system isn’t working.

I am not sure what you want to say but playing with HUngary, Poland etc would be fatal for czech hockey. this was the case before 2010 when youngsters played meaningless games against Hungary etc. and czech hockey did not produce anybody.

 

[BigBadBoar]

When I look around and see how many incompetent people are working in the Czech hockey, never mention those who intentionally exploit Czech hockey for their own selfish profit through corruption and frauds - I find it a wonder that there still are at least a few great prospects coming from this country. For many young guys, the best option is to move to Sweden (for example) and proceed their development there. The Czech youth leagues are so terrible in the terms of organization, that young prospects often simply cannot rely on the Czech development system at all. There are some people trying to change things and I would say it is a little bit better now than, say, 5-7 years ago. But still far from OK.

 

[Czechboy]

On a good note... Vrana is now top 10 in goal scoring. Pastrnak has been on top in this category for most the season. Has a 5 goal lead on Ovechkin. Vrana is one goal behind Austin Matthews. Zadina has been called back and could become another sniper in 1 or 2 seasons. I imagine it's been a decade since we had 2 Czechs in Top 10 in goal scoring. Yes, I realize the season isn't over and a lot could change. Still, it is a bright note. Another bright note... all 3 Czech goalies started AND won on Wednesday night. I'm going to say it's been a decade since 3 Czech goalies all got a win in the same night in the NHL.

There is some optimism for the day... I have lots of bad things to say but am really enjoying those 2 things this morning.lol

 

[SoundAndFury]

Well, this is what volume does. If we see almost 3 times more Czech guys drafted some of them are bound to be elite.

 

[Czechboy]

Well, this is what volume does. If we see almost 3 times more Czech guys drafted some of them are bound to be elite.

We don't have much volume at all. However, our first rounders tend to be turning out more than not which is very helpful. Hopefully we get another first rounder this year and maybe 2. But our drafts are usually around 8 to 10 guys and that usually consists of a few goalies and then mostly later round picks. Draft day has been depressing for awhile now. Shame that 2nd rounders like Musil or Karabacek didn't become regulars. Worried about Kaut as well.

 

[SoundAndFury]

We don't have much volume at all. However, our first rounders tend to be turning out more than not which is very helpful. Hopefully we get another first rounder this year and maybe 2. But our drafts are usually around 8 to 10 guys and that usually consists of a few goalies and then mostly later round picks. Draft day has been depressing for awhile now. Shame that 2nd rounders like Musil or Karabacek didn't become regulars. Worried about Kaut as well.

Like I wrote before: "Out of 30 Czech players in the NHL, 5 were drafted in a 6-year gap between 2000 - 2006, only 4 between 2006 and 2012 (those guys should be in their prime years now) and 13 between 2012 and 2017.". Naturally, as the number of players increases the number of good ones does as well. I think we will agree the difference in volume between 4 and 13 is rather significant.

 

[Czechboy]

Like I wrote before: "Out of 30 Czech players in the NHL, 5 were drafted in a 6-year gap between 2000 - 2006, only 4 between 2006 and 2012 (those guys should be in their prime years now) and 13 between 2012 and 2017.". Naturally, as the number of players increases the number of good ones does as well. I think we will agree the difference in volume between 4 and 13 is rather significant.

It's definitely an uptick but 13 players in 5 years means we produce 2 to 3 NHL players every draft which is way below Finland, Sweden, Russia, Canada and the US. We've had several drafts were Switzerland has produced more than us in the draft and now the German's are starting too. So yeah going from 4 guys in 5 years to 13 guys in 5 years is a 400% increase but it's not going to get us back into the Top 5 anytime soon. At our peak we had close to 80 Czechs in the NHL we just crossed 30 with Zadina's callup.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Oh we are talking about going back to top-5.. Well that does not seem realistic, does it? Like you said, Czech fans should enjoy little things, the things are looking up but in terms of catching up with top-5, surely that's not going to happen anytime soon. I think the fact that Switzerland won't be able to catch you is good enough achievement by itself.

 

[Czechboy]

Oh we are talking about going back to top-5.. Well that does not seem realistic, does it? Like you said, Czech fans should enjoy little things, the things are looking up but in terms of catching up with top-5, surely that's not going to happen anytime soon. I think the fact that Switzerland won't be able to catch you is good enough achievement by itself.

Why won't Switzerland be able to catch us?

I'm hoping/assuming/preying the goal is get back to top 5. Proud hockey nation with a lot of history.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Why won't Switzerland be able to catch us?

You have overtaken them in the pace of NHLer production quite firmly.

 

[alko]

What is the definition of success?

NHL stars?

Gold (medals) in WCH (Olympics)?