In Connie we Trust

[johnnystormcgy]

I just want Connie to get his business done so I can start my youtube, draft guide and podcast based scouting for the 2024 draft.

I would love to have 3-5 1st rounders to start mocking up draft lists with.

 

[User1996]

LOL he isnt turning into a 30 goal scorer, certainly not on a team that wants to win anything. We saw what happened to him when the Canucks switched to a winning style ge was completely ineffective. You don’t win with players like him. With luck he can put up empty stats in a bad team but that has no value if you want to win.

Lol, scoring goals doesn’t help you win games? I think this discussion ends here if that’s even something that’s implied in your post. He’s already scored 40 and is on pace for 20 in a shitty year, let’s not pretend 30 is out of the question - he knows how to put the puck in the net.

It’s a shrewd move to pick up a guy that put up 40 last year as a throw in for a 2C that didn’t want to stay here, bottom line.

 

[MM917]

Lol, scoring goals doesn’t help you win games? I think this discussion ends here if that’s even something that’s implied in your post. He’s already scored 40 and is on pace for 20 in a shitty year, let’s not pretend 30 is out of the question - he knows how to put the puck in the net.

It’s a shrewd move to pick up a guy that put up 40 last year as a throw in for a 2C that didn’t want to stay here, bottom line.

Well he scored 40 and they didn't come close to the play-offs, dropped off massively and the team massively improved, so yes I think there is so value is asking why are the Canucks so much better even with Kuzmenko scoring goals? There is plenty of evidence of guys who can put up points when the team isn't competing and playing run and gun hockey, but then don't fit in with a winning style of play.

And why is this a shitty year and not what he actually is? He has had less than two seasons in the NHL it wasn't like he was a consistent player. If he is a 30 goal scorer going forward how come the Canucks didn't want him? How come no other team came after him? How did he end up as a throw in to a rental deal?

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Well he scored 40 and they didn't come close to the play-offs, dropped off massively and the team massively improved, so yes I think there is so value is asking why are the Canucks so much better even with Kuzmenko scoring goals? There is plenty of evidence of guys who can put up points when the team isn't competing and playing run and gun hockey, but then don't fit in with a winning style of play.

And why is this a shitty year and not what he actually is? He has had less than two seasons in the NHL it wasn't like he was a consistent player. If he is a 30 goal scorer going forward how come the Canucks didn't want him? How come no other team came after him? How did he end up as a throw in to a rental deal?

Imagine wanting a team to rebuild, seeing them trade one of their highest valued assets for a 1st, prospect, a cap dump throw-in, and a few other assets, and then rationalizing that the entire trade might be bad because the cap dump isn't someone you win with. Lol. Just absolutely clueless analysis.

 

[MM917]

Imagine wanting a team to rebuild, seeing them trade one of their highest valued assets for a 1st, prospect, a cap dump throw-in, and a few other assets, and then rationalizing that the entire trade might be bad because the cap dump isn't someone you win with. Lol. Just absolutely clueless analysis.

It is clueless if you change what is actually said so you can cry about everyone not being a homer.

If the Flames keep Kuzmenko they are not rebuilding, since I want a rebuild it would be crazy to praise a deal that takes them away from the best course of action.

What is clueless is that people can't be rational about a deal, it has to be super duper great or nothing. I have said I like the return but because I don't overrate it you have lost your mind. I know for many fans it is impossible to criticize the team, impossible to say that everything isn't A+ but that is clueless way to support the team. It doesn't make you a better fan, doesn't mean you support the team it just shows you unwilling to put any thought into anything which is sad.

 

[User1996]

Well he scored 40 and they didn't come close to the play-offs, dropped off massively and the team massively improved, so yes I think there is so value is asking why are the Canucks so much better even with Kuzmenko scoring goals? There is plenty of evidence of guys who can put up points when the team isn't competing and playing run and gun hockey, but then don't fit in with a winning style of play.

And why is this a shitty year and not what he actually is? He has had less than two seasons in the NHL it wasn't like he was a consistent player. If he is a 30 goal scorer going forward how come the Canucks didn't want him? How come no other team came after him? How did he end up as a throw in to a rental deal?

Because their Vezina starting goalie has already played more games than last year? Because their great young D took another step and is now one of the Norris front runners? Because they have 3 guys on pace to score roughly 100 points?

Because Lindholm is better, flat out? Because the Canucks don’t have many “bad” contracts to come back to balance salary in the trade.

That’s the entire point of taking a flyer on him. The Canucks don’t know what he is, the Flames don’t know what he is, nobody knows what he is.

The point is, basing the entire success of the trade off Kuzmenko is ridiculous. Especially when there’s a 1st plus a D prospect that could have probably played for the US at the WJC this year and has a bunch of potential. Same with saying Kuzmenko got worse because the Canucks got better.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

It is clueless if you change what is actually said so you can cry about everyone not being a homer.

If the Flames keep Kuzmenko they are not rebuilding, since I want a rebuild it would be crazy to praise a deal that takes them away from the best course of action.

What is clueless is that people can't be rational about a deal, it has to be super duper great or nothing. I have said I like the return but because I don't overrate it you have lost your mind. I know for many fans it is impossible to criticize the team, impossible to say that everything isn't A+ but that is clueless way to support the team. It doesn't make you a better fan, doesn't mean you support the team it just shows you unwilling to put any thought into anything which is sad.

You said if we re-sign Kuzmenko you'd rank the return as an F. Your analysis of the trade is just missing the mark by evaluating it based on what we do with Kuzmenko. He was a cap dump throw in. If he rebounds and has value, great, that's icing on the cake and we could flip him for more value. If not, so be it. The meat of the return is completely unrelated to Kuzmenko.

And if you knew my posting history you'd see I am the furthest thing from a blind supporter of our management. For years I criticized management and argued that our core wasn't good enough to compete while our management was clueless thinking we could sneak in and go on a run. This is the first time in a decade our management seems to understand this and is selling our assets for futures. That's why I'm now optimisitc and support Cornoy's moves thus far. I think he's doing what we've been needing for quite some time and got really good value for Lindholm. That's why I'm advocating for him and supporting his trades.

And his decision to acquire Kuzmenko AS A CAP DUMP doesn't indicate that we aren't rebuilding. It just means we likely aren't doing a scorched earth rebuild where we keep no NHL talent on the roster. Craig already said as much. Clinging to this 'we added two middle-6 wingers so we aren't rebuilding' narrative while diregarding the picks and prospects we've accumulated in those same moves doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Lunatik]

You said if we re-sign Kuzmenko you'd rank the return as an F. Your analysis of the trade is just missing the mark by evaluating it based on what we do with Kuzmenko. He was a cap dump throw in. If he rebounds and has value, great, that's icing on the cake and we could flip him for more value. If not, so be it. The meat of the return is completely unrelated to Kuzmenko.

And if you knew my posting history you'd see I am the furthest thing from a blind supporter of our management. For years I criticized management and argued that our core wasn't good enough to compete while our management was clueless thinking we could sneak in and go on a run. This is the first time in a decade our management seems to understand this and is selling our assets for futures. That's why I'm now optimisitc and support Cornoy's moves thus far. I think he's doing what we've been needing for quite some time and got really good value for Lindholm. That's why I'm advocating for him and supporting his trades.

And his decision to acquire Kuzmenko AS A CAP DUMP doesn't indicate that we aren't rebuilding. It just means we likely aren't doing a scorched earth rebuild where we keep no NHL talent on the roster. Craig already said as much. Clinging to this 'we added two middle-6 wingers so we aren't rebuilding' narrative while diregarding the picks and prospects we've accumulated in those same moves doesn't make sense to me.

You're wasting your breath. They have an unreasonable disdain for Kuzmenko just because he never wore a pride jersey, even though doing so could make it so he could never go home and bad things could happen to his family. Even Burkie said he understands why Russian players don't partake in an interview criticizing Reimer and the religious reasons for not wearing one

 

[MM917]

Because their Vezina starting goalie has already played more games than last year? Because their great young D took another step and is now one of the Norris front runners? Because they have 3 guys on pace to score roughly 100 points?

Because Lindholm is better, flat out? Because the Canucks don’t have many “bad” contracts to come back to balance salary in the trade.

That’s the entire point of taking a flyer on him. The Canucks don’t know what he is, the Flames don’t know what he is, nobody knows what he is.

The point is, basing the entire success of the trade off Kuzmenko is ridiculous. Especially when there’s a 1st plus a D prospect that could have probably played for the US at the WJC this year and has a bunch of potential. Same with saying Kuzmenko got worse because the Canucks got better.

Kuzmenko didn't get worse he was never good to begin with.

The most important thing for the Flames right now is to commit to a full on rebuild, half assing it is the worst they can do, so if they view Kuzmenko as having a future with the team that shows they are going the half ass route, which is an absolute disaster. The pick and prospect will mean nothing if the Flames choose to go down the route of anything other than a rebuild.

You're wasting your breath. They have an unreasonable disdain for Kuzmenko just because he never wore a pride jersey, even though doing so could make it so he could never go home and bad things could happen to his family. Even Burkie said he understands why Russian players don't partake in an interview criticizing Reimer and the religious reasons for not wearing one

What load of shit. This is 100% based on Kuzmenko's on ice play. Him not wearing a jersey shows he is a piece of shit but we are down the road when it comes to professional atheletes that you know you are going to have to cheer for bad guys or not follow sports at all.

The problem with Kuzmenko is he isn't a very good hockey player, he doesn't have the skills to contribute to a contending team. If we want to compete for the Stanley Cup, Kuzmenko doesn't help us do that in anyway.

 

[MM917]

It just means we likely aren't doing a scorched earth rebuild where we keep no NHL talent on the roster. Craig already said as much. Clinging to this 'we added two middle-6 wingers so we aren't rebuilding' narrative while diregarding the picks and prospects we've accumulated in those same moves doesn't make sense to me.

It isn't clinging to anything but facts, saying you are "rebuilding" is meaningless when you then take actions that don't align with that.

We need a scorched earth rebuild, half assing it trying to compete and stay "good" LOL like Conroy said is a stupid way to go.

 

[Volica]

If Conroy keeps doing what he's been doing, I have faith.

I know Yegor slowed down because he's being asked to do more than he should (centering the top offensive line on the team), but he has value going into next season.
Kuzmenko if he can continue with that scoring touch will have value going into next season.

Bruiser looks like one-helluva addition as part of the Lindholm deal. He's second in OHL D scoring. First is a guy who's going to go in the top 12-15 of this years' draft, and third is another first rounder in Bonk. Like, that's found money. The fact a team would part with that is pretty wild. Even if his defensive work is inconsistent (I have no idea, I haven't watched him play ever) that raw talent is something the Flames have been really good at finding with D. It means to me, that Calgary was likely targeting this guy but he went a few pics before their third.

Getting out of Zad without taking any money back, and just getting more picks, that's great.
People shouldn't underestimate what having 10-12 picks in a draft can mean. It can either reshape your entire prospect pool, with a scouting staff I really, really, really trust or it can mean using these to acquire players that are on the outs.

 

[Lunatik]

If Conroy keeps doing what he's been doing, I have faith.

I know Yegor slowed down because he's being asked to do more than he should (centering the top offensive line on the team), but he has value going into next season.
Kuzmenko if he can continue with that scoring touch will have value going into next season.

Bruiser looks like one-helluva addition as part of the Lindholm deal. He's second in OHL D scoring. First is a guy who's going to go in the top 12-15 of this years' draft, and third is another first rounder in Bonk. Like, that's found money. The fact a team would part with that is pretty wild. Even if his defensive work is inconsistent (I have no idea, I haven't watched him play ever) that raw talent is something the Flames have been really good at finding with D. It means to me, that Calgary was likely targeting this guy but he went a few pics before their third.

Getting out of Zad without taking any money back, and just getting more picks, that's great.
People shouldn't underestimate what having 10-12 picks in a draft can mean. It can either reshape your entire prospect pool, with a scouting staff I really, really, really trust or it can mean using these to acquire players that are on the outs.

This is a good post.

I also like that Bruiser (much better nickname than Brewski, thank you) is a RHD.

Another thing to point out is Bruiser leads the OHL in assists, and is also tied for 5th in overall scoring. The fact he's been involved in more than 32% of his teams goals (they're #3 in scoring) is also extremely impressive.

 

[User1996]

Kuzmenko didn't get worse he was never good to begin with.

The most important thing for the Flames right now is to commit to a full on rebuild, half assing it is the worst they can do, so if they view Kuzmenko as having a future with the team that shows they are going the half ass route, which is an absolute disaster. The pick and prospect will mean nothing if the Flames choose to go down the route of anything other than a rebuild.



What load of shit. This is 100% based on Kuzmenko's on ice play. Him not wearing a jersey shows he is a piece of shit but we are down the road when it comes to professional atheletes that you know you are going to have to cheer for bad guys or not follow sports at all.

The problem with Kuzmenko is he isn't a very good hockey player, he doesn't have the skills to contribute to a contending team. If we want to compete for the Stanley Cup, Kuzmenko doesn't help us do that in anyway.

Assuming the Flames go scorched earth (they won’t), and he’s so bad at hockey, isn’t it valuable to have Kuzmenko around for it? Would there not be value in that?

Please explain how injection of prospects on cost controlled contracts means nothing besides for rebuilding teams? This makes less than zero sense. That’s like saying Zary has meant nothing to this team and won’t mean anything going forward. Absolute nonsense.

 

[MM917]

Assuming the Flames go scorched earth (they won’t), and he’s so bad at hockey, isn’t it valuable to have Kuzmenko around for it? Would there not be value in that?

Please explain how injection of prospects on cost controlled contracts means nothing besides for rebuilding teams? This makes less than zero sense. That’s like saying Zary has meant nothing to this team and won’t mean anything going forward. Absolute nonsense.

No why would he have value in that case?

My goal is to win the Stanley Cup, as a player Kuzmenko does nothing to do that. He does not help this team in anyway outside of being dealt for picks. If the team chooses to keep him and chase mediocrity then they will never be successful, so who cares what the other pieces do when it leads to nothing.

And yes if Zary plays his whole career with zero play-offs win there could easily be a discussion about how much he meant.

 

[User1996]

No why would he have value in that case?

My goal is to win the Stanley Cup, as a player Kuzmenko does nothing to do that. He does not help this team in anyway outside of being dealt for picks. If the team chooses to keep him and chase mediocrity then they will never be successful, so who cares what the other pieces do when it leads to nothing.

And yes if Zary plays his whole career with zero play-offs win there could easily be a discussion about how much he meant.

Because if he’s such a horrible, useless player, he’d be good to have around to lead the tank.

Okay so that same argument means that Iginla was useless to us, McDavid has been useless to the Oilers, and so many other players.

I, along with many other people are just having a horribly hard time following your arguments.

 

[Figgy44]

I will summarize what I see in this thread as...

 

[Volica]

He does not help this team in anyway outside of being dealt for picks.

I mean, isn't that the point?
He'll be entering his 30 year old season when he hits FA next summer, I don't think he's ever been in the Flames' long term plans outside of that.

He's a goal scorer, that's something teams generally need; throw him on a deeper team and the guy would be a nice addition almost anywhere for instant offence.

 

[crackdown44]

I mean, isn't that the point?
He'll be entering his 30 year old season when he hits FA next summer, I don't think he's ever been in the Flames' long term plans outside of that.

He's a goal scorer, that's something teams generally need; throw him on a deeper team and the guy would be a nice addition almost anywhere for instant offence.

To add to this, he originally had Calgary on his no trade list but they managed to get him to waive

I imagine there was a wink wink nudge nudge that we’ll give you an opportunity and flip you if you perform

 

[Khrox]

To add to this, he originally had Calgary on his no trade list but they managed to get him to waive

I imagine there was a wink wink nudge nudge that we’ll give you an opportunity and flip you if you perform

Which is basically the same as what Montreal promised Monahan if he re-signed that one year contract. "If we're not in the playoff picture, we'll trade you to a team that is by the deadline, until then just be a good veteran presence for our team"

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Winter of Craig

Toffoli? Check
Backlund? Check
Zadorov? Check
Lindholm? Check
Tanev? Check
Hanifin?

 

[Lunatik]

Toffoli? Check
Backlund? Check
Zadorov? Check
Lindholm? Check
Tanev? Check

Kylington?

 

[Zirakzigil]

Winter of Craig

Toffoli? Check
Backlund? Check
Zadorov? Check
Lindholm? Check
Tanev? Check
Hanifin?

Signed

Kylington?

Signed



I still am holding out a small amount of hope that Hanifin enjoys the last bit so much that he signs here. Conroy is putting his stamp on things and the team is winning AND having fun. He might like the direction they are headed now. I dont see how Kylington doesnt sign again. Hes been publicly very grateful for how the Flames have supported and handled his situation. Cant see him leaving after that.

 

[Lunatik]

Signed



Signed



I still am holding out a small amount of hope that Hanifin enjoys the last bit so much that he signs here. Conroy is putting his stamp on things and the team is winning AND having fun. He might like the direction they are headed now. I dont see how Kylington doesnt sign again. Hes been publicly very grateful for how the Flames have supported and handled his situation. Cant see him leaving after that.

I think Kylington stays too. The only question in my mind is it a 1-year incentive laden show me deal, a bridge style deal for 2-4 years, or will they take the risk and go 5+

 

[Zirakzigil]

I think Kylington stays too. The only question in my mind is it a 1-year incentive laden show me deal, a bridge style deal for 2-4 years, or will they take the risk and go 5+

I wonder if they dont just roll things back and sign a similar 2 year deal to the one now. Good chances he exceeds the contract, but it gives the Flames some maneuvering as a thank you for how they handled things.

 

[Lunatik]

I wonder if they dont just roll things back and sign a similar 2 year deal to the one now. Good chances he exceeds the contract, but it gives the Flames some maneuvering as a thank you for how they handled things.

It wouldn't be a shock. I could also see an incentivized 1-year deal since he's eligible for performance bonuses on a 1-year deal. 1-year 1m, with up to 3m in bonuses. Kinda like the Connor Brown contract