In Connie we Trust
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Conroy is the greatest leader in team history, on and off the ice.
We will see. I think he is going to get handcuffed by ownership desires and it will again screw up the retool landing them back in the land of Meh
I don't see how we can make any judgements on Conroy.
The Tofolli deal was ok not great. The Lindholm deal is still up for debate depending on what we do with Kuzmenko.
I don't think he has shown anything to think he is a bad GM but at the same time there is zero reason to be hopeful about him either. We still have a bunch of questions that need to be answered before we can make a decision either way.
So based no that no in Conroy I do not trust at this point because there is no reason to, he has to earn that blanket trust.
The Tofolli deal was ok not great. The Lindholm deal is still up for debate depending on what we do with Kuzmenko.
I don't think he has shown anything to think he is a bad GM but at the same time there is zero reason to be hopeful about him either. We still have a bunch of questions that need to be answered before we can make a decision either way.
So based no that no in Conroy I do not trust at this point because there is no reason to, he has to earn that blanket trust.
Backlund
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Bounces R Way
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At least we know he loves the team and loves the city and is committed to building something here. Not like a certain coward GM who shit his bed and stuffed the sheets in the bottom dresser drawer before high tailing it to Toronto.
If there's anybody that should have a good handle on this franchise's particular brand of brain damage it's Craig Conroy and Jarome Iginla. Whether they're up for actually fixing it or not remains to be seen but I like what he's done so far. Guess we'll see how his deadline goes. Not super sold on Huska either, big substitute teacher vibes.
If there's anybody that should have a good handle on this franchise's particular brand of brain damage it's Craig Conroy and Jarome Iginla. Whether they're up for actually fixing it or not remains to be seen but I like what he's done so far. Guess we'll see how his deadline goes. Not super sold on Huska either, big substitute teacher vibes.
joescores
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Huska has not been able to motivate players enough in my view, he lacks to show enough of passion and emotion for a top coach which would be infectious to lift players in tough moments. Also, I can't believe him and Savard have not been able to work on PP. Surely it's not just Savard's fault to make it work. Just a few observations so far since he has taken over.
JPeeper
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- Jan 4, 2015
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You know this forum has gone full wet blanket when super is one of the few who isn't completely pessimistic.
Conroy is a f***ing beauty.
I'm not worried about ownership, between Connie and Iggy they'll be able to do what ever they want and Edwards won't say no to them.
Conroy is a f***ing beauty.
I'm not worried about ownership, between Connie and Iggy they'll be able to do what ever they want and Edwards won't say no to them.
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I don't trust our ownership.
The only reason we didn't commit 20 million dollars over the next 8 years to Lindholm and Hanifin is because the players declined our overpayment. How do we have faith that there is some sort of plans with this fact.
The only reason we didn't commit 20 million dollars over the next 8 years to Lindholm and Hanifin is because the players declined our overpayment. How do we have faith that there is some sort of plans with this fact.
Mobiandi
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- Jan 17, 2015
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I think we see Iggy there eventually. Not really buying the whole management route for him
crackdown44
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I think the record is pretty on par with the talent so personally I wouldn’t really say huska is underperforming. The PP also lacks the top end talent that good PPs have
I guess it depends more if they think he’s the right coach to keep around to develop the younger guys or not
Are you kidding? The Toffoli and Lindholm trades were amazing.
We traded Toffoli when his value was at its highest with one year left on his contract for a 25 year old top-6 C/W who is on pace for 25+ goals and 55 points in year 1 while being forced to play center (where he doesn’t really fit imo). Sharangovich has so much more value right now than the late first that most fans were expecting. We can only hope guys like Pelletier and other late firsts develop into top-6 players with potential for more at age 25. Plus we got a 3rd. Value wise, he killed it. And extra credit to him for identifying a good young player in a bad situation when most fans couldn’t see the upside. You take that over a late first 10/10 times (see Emile Poirier, Klimchuk, Nemisz, etc.)
The only possible argument against the Toffoli trade being great is that we still needed more picks/prospects, which is why the Lindholm trade was unreal too. We got a 1st, a current top-6/9 winger who nearly scored 40 last year, a blue chip RD prospect, and two secondary picks/prospects. That is an absolute haul for a pending UFA having his worst season in years lol. Literally what more could you want? It checks every single box for me. And how on earth is the success or failure of that trade dependent on Kuzmenko? What about the 1st and A-/B+ prospect that is a huge return for any rental in itself? Plus another mid round pick and depth prospect AND THEN Kuzmenko who could easily secure a top-6 role here or get shipped for another pick next deadline. It’s insane Conroy got that much. I legit didn’t think we had a chance at getting a top prospect on top of the 1st for rental Lindy without extension, not to mention a bounce-back top-6 candidate too.
How can we not trust Conroy at this point? He’s proven to focus on youth, refuse to overpay our vets, and gets great value for our assets. Sure it’s too early to tell if he’s able to build a contender as well as he can sell assets, but based on his first few moves he clearly gets it. And that is all I can ask for as a fan after years of Brad being ‘in on everything’ but never getting anything done and not focusing on youth/building properly through the draft.
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I must say that Conroy seems to have convinced N Murray Edwards to travel further down the rebuild road than I've ever seen before. That's a good thing.
No chance they were amazing. They were ok deals, the Lindhom can work out to be a disaster if we keep Kuzmenko or very good if we can move him for a 1st so the jury is still out on that move.
We moved Toffoli for a guy that is a top 6 player on a non-play-off team but a player that isn't good enough to play top 6 on a quality team and doesn't offer much outside of scoring. We have seen with his recent play how he can be completely invisible at times.
The 3rd is nice but a risk.
The return was good, I have no problem with the deal but it is far from amazing, far from enough that you say based on one deal Conroy is great or can be blindly trusted.
We did not get a blue chip D prospect that is massively overrating Brzustewicz, who has some exciting skills but big questions as well. We also got a player that did well on a non-play-off team putting up points and nothing else but then became a non-factor when that same team started to play successful hockey and had better players to start competing.
To call that return insane is 100% homer.
If Kuzmenko is part of our top 6 going forward we will win nothing, that is a major fail for the team and would show they have no interest in actually competing. That is why he is key to the deal if we keep him beyond this TD that is bad asset management, if we re-sign him that is a disaster. Kuzmenko is the exact kind of player you do not win with.
He hasn't proven to focus on youth though, we have brought in some meh prospects that will have no impact on the team if we want to win things. Zary is the only young guy we have played this year that is going to have an impact on a winning team.
He hasn't signed any of our UFA's but also has not traded guys that need to go- Tanev, Hanifin, Markstorm- and had too many reports that he was willing to re-sign both Lindholm and Hanifin, which would be a disaster.
He also has shown that he is more interested in going in the retool not rebuild direction which again would be a disaster.
Shrangovich and Kuzmenko are warm bodies to fill roles while you rebuild and you try to flip for pieces that actually help you win. Any thought of either of them being top 6 players for us beyond the first half of next season shows Conroy is a fool and buying into the same pursuit of mediocrity that has plagued this franchise for 20+ years. Until I see that is clearly not the case I cannot trust him.
The Sharangovich deal gets a B from me, the Lindholm deal gets a A- if Kuzmenko is moved for a 1st and F if he is re-signed so still so much for Conroy to do to gain blind trust. Which isn't surprising since he has been a GM for 6 months, it would be crazy and delusional to pretend he has done anything to amaze anyone.
I don’t get your take on the Lindholm trade at all. What were you expecting? More than a 1st+good prospect+pick? I literally don’t know what more anyone could’ve expected. Getting any value for Kuzmenko is icing on the cake. Point to any rental deadline deal where a guy brought back that big of a package in like 5 years… it was an absolute haul lol.
And you just ignore the 1st+prospect+3rd rd picks from all 3 trades he’s made as the youth I’m referring to lol.
I am not sure what there isn't to get, if we move Kuzmenko for a 1st then I think it is a excellent return, if we move Kuzmenko for a lesser value I think it is a good return, where the problem comes in is if we don't move Kuzmenko and keep him because we think he has a role in our top 6 which in my view shows we are still aiming for 8th and hope for a fluke run in the play-offs.
That to me is the worst possible way to run a team and until I see that Conroy isn't going down this path I will have questions about him and the deal.
Either way the return isn't amazing, it was good value for a very good player.
What other recent rental went for a 1st+good prospect+another pick+another prospect+top-6/9 RW? lol. Like instead of just making blanket statements like ‘if we trade Kuzmenko it’s good and if we don’t it’s horrible’, look at recent comparables to see that he absolutely got everything you could’ve asked for. I genuinely ask, what more would you have wanted? 2 firsts? A recent top-10 1st rounder and a 1st?
He got the max return you can possibly expect for a rental AND a bounce back candidate who could also be moved for a pick next deadline. The meat of the return is the 1st and prospect. If that’s not focusing on youth and getting amazing value for a rental I don’t know what is. Please show any comparable deal that makes this look like a weak return because I promise you can’t.
I get being negative and not wanting guys like Kuzmenko after living through Brad’s tenure, but come on give Connie the credit he deserves here. When he inevitably deals Hanifin and probably Tanev and maybe Marky for futures you will definitely change your tune lol. He’s done everything right so far
As for Sharangovich being a warm body you don’t win with, agree to disagree lol. He’s 25. But either way, his value is at least equivalent to a late first. What more did you want in a Toffoli trade? Like you can’t just be mad he didn’t get elite prospects or top-10 firsts when we don’t have the assets to acquire those. Value-wise, a 25 year old Sharangovich with an extension and a 3rd for rental Toffoli is a great return. We’d hope any late first turns out to be that good at all, nevermind by age 25.
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We didn't get that return though. Kuzmenko is a guy that has no role on good teams, getting a top 6/9 on a non-play-off team isn't a positive. I would have preferred not to take Kuzmenko and just bring back an asset that will help the team.
There is no "bounce back" candidate for Kuzmenko he isn't a player you win with win, he got lucky last season to put up points but even then had massive questions about him.
I also think you really should read because not once did I say it was a weak return, so why would I show you a similar move to something I don't believe?
When he makes those moves I will give him credit, I won't give him credit for things he hasn't done.
I remember when fans rushed to call Tre the "wizard", when he was with us he was the best. People love Conroy because of his time with the club and his personality but there is nothing wrong with waiting for him to show he is a good Gm before rushing into annointing him the greatest. He has been here for 6 months why not wait to let him show us what he is before giving him credit for moves he hasn't made?
He has not done everything right so far, there is plenty to question about him so far. I would say Huska is a big question mark, Savard a massive question mark, talks to re-sign Hanifin and Lindholm massive question marks as well.
For me there are 3 routes he could go- rebuild, retool or maintain mediocrity and he has yet to show which way he is going. Until we are able to determine that I cam not sure how anyone can say we can 100% back/trust him, the moves that will give us a good understanding of him as a GM have not happened yet, it is too early in his tenure to determine what he is as a GM.
So you agree the Lindholm trade was great value but you wouldve rathered a 3rd or something instead of Kuzmenko? Seems like a small nitpick when the meat of the return is 1st+prospect+mid round pick.
All I’m arguing is that he’s made some very good moves so far and has given us no reason not to trust him. In fact, those moves give us every reason to trust him. I’m not claiming that he’s already proven to be an amazing GM or anything, but he’s given us definite reason to trust him.
You’re quite pessimistic, which I do kinda understand based on previous management, but you gotta give Connie credit for the moves he’s made. He came in here with his back against a wall and he’s pushed his way through. Your thoughts on Kuzmenko and Sharangovich aside, the value he’s been able to get for some pending rentals is great.
And I’m not saying you need to give him credit for moves he hasn’t made yet, but I’m predicting you will eat your words when he continues doing what he’s been doing and stacks our prospect pool and get great value for our non-core vets
I think the return is great if we ship Kuzmenko off for a 1st, any less and it is good. But the problem is that good return is wasted if we then keep Kuzmenko on as a long term piece.
I think very good is an overstatement. He has made some ok moves but not enough to give us a sense of what direction that team is headed. We don't have near enough information to trust him or not trust, we need to wait to see.
I don't think I am pessimistic at all just waiting until we have more information. Conroy also hasn't pushed his way through anything yet. He came in to a situation perfect to rebuild and he has dragged his feet and potentially engaged in franchise crippling contract talks with Hanifin and Lindholm. That isn't pushing his way through anything.
As I said above nobody can say what direction we are going- rebuild, retool or maintain mediocrity. I know people will say that we know we aren't going with the latter option but if we re-sign Sharangovich, Kuzmenko, don't trade Markstrom it is hard to see how we aren't just trying for 8th and a fluke play-off run. The team would we build with those moves isn't competing for anything.
I think right now it is highly unlikely we are going down the much needed rebuild route either. Which again is a massive mistake which would make me not trust Conroy.
With there still needing to be moves for Markstrom, Hanifin, Tanev, Kuzmenko and others, there is just too much uncertainty to say whether we can trust Conroy or not, to say what direction he is taking the team and whether that is a good path to go down or not.
How will I eat any words when my words are we need more time? When he makes the moves I hope he does I will give him praise for it, so what will there be to eat?
Also when you say stuff like
that is just pointless delusion. There is zero reason to think any of that will happen.
But we also got 1st+good prospect+pick+depth prospect as the meat of the trade. That in itself is great value. You keep saying it depends on Kuzmenko but it doesn’t at all lol. Saying that the return (aside from Kuzmenko) isn’t great value without providing any examples of recent similar trades that returned more is useless. Lindy got more than Horvat despite being older and playing his worst hockey in years. It’s great value compared to any recent rental trade.
I meant eat your words that he doesn’t seem to be focusing on youth and futures and isn’t leading us towards a rebuild. Saying we need more time to evaluate him is one thing but then downplaying all his recent moves for picks/prospects and disregarding everything he’s said publicly is another. I agree we need to wait to praise him for future moves, but he’s given us indication that we can trust him to lead us to a rebuild. Can’t ask for anything more imo.
We literally just shipped Lindholm for a 1st+good prospect and Zad for multiple picks. How is that not reason to think that will happen? I’m predicting he will load up on picks and prospects based on his past two moves, idk how that doesn’t indicate stocking our prospect pool lol. That’s all it indicates
Debatable that he got more than Horvat. The return for LIndholm was fine, I have never argued that, if you want to be a homer to label it great but that is silly. Nothing wrong with being level headed about things.
Kuzmenko does matter if we get an extra 1st for him that does raise the value significantly, how can anyone deny that?
He hasn't shown anything that he is moving that way so far, if he changes his approach that doesn't have me eating my words because it wouldn't change anything he has done up to this point.
I haven't down played anything, I said both trades were fine. Both trades had elements that don't fit with a rebuild- Sharangovich and Kuzmenko- so no he hasn't shown he is headed for a rebuild in anyway. He has never said anything to disregard in terms of a rebuild either.
There has been zero indication a rebuild is coming and plenty of reasons to think it isn't. and that it will be a retool or worse more mediocrity.
Because in the Lindholm deal we brought back Kuzmenko, if we keep him rather than flipping him that is not a rebuild move. Trading Zadorov who wanted to go isn't a rebuilding move.
There is nothing at all that points to us going for a rebuild and not a retool and zero reason to think we aren't competing for mediocrity as well.
Usually when you trade your 1C for picks and prospects as the primary return, it signifies a rebuild. Kuzmenko was a cap throw in. Zad could’ve been traded for something that was not picks.
But even more than that, Conroy himself saying we’re rebuilding also indicates we’re rebuilding lol. Idk why you refuse to believe it. Ya maybe he doesn’t want a scorched earth complete tank rebuild, but he literally said we’re rebuilding this week:
“You’re rebuilding, but you want to be competitive and a good team because that’s how the Zarys, and the Pospisils, and all the young guys become better, in my mind.”
But keep on denying it and saying there’s no indication if it makes you feel better to be pessimistic. I’m not even being optimistic, I’m just saying we should trust him because he put his money where his mouth is and made rebuild-type moves
His comments show it isn’t a rebuild, he says it himself you want to remain competitive that isn’t a rebuild its a retool at best.
I am not denying anything just pointing out the truth of what has happened.
He has yet to put his money where his mouth is at all that is the whole point and now has clearly come out to say he is not interested in a rebuild but in remaining competitive.
Ace Rimmer
Stoke me a clipper.
Tanking not part of Conroy's plan amidst Flames' roster rebuild
On the verge of altering his roster by trading a few more core veterans, Craig Conroy isn't about to let the Flames tank.
