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Player Discussion Ilya Samsonov [#35] discussion

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the problem isnt samsanov PER SE. there are layers to this futility clearly. if you cant score u cant win, so thats a huge problem. having said that, thats the second time this series that samsanov has given up a terrible goal within like a minute of us taking the lead, which is so deflating for a team. timely saves are often more important than the number of saves, literally no point making 30 good saves when u allow 2 bad goals in a game/series that the team cant score. joseph woll made every IMPORTANT save we needed him to, sammy didnt, end of story.

blame isnt on him alone, nor was goaltending the biggest issue(3rd behind coaching and the "core") but hes definitely got a big slice of it.
 
Buds17 said:
I thought Bertuzzi was one of our better players in the playoffs but likely wouldn't re-sign him due to the contract he'd figure to command and obtain. I'm hopeful of Cowan making that jump to the NHL as well but we'd have to be realistic about the player who would be replacing Bertuzzi in the top six (not intending to suggest that said player would be Cowan). I absolutely believe a top four defenceman is a must for next season and yet I still can't forget that it was primarily a lack of offence which prematurely ended this playoff run.
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Its all perspective. They need to stop 1 goal per game. This team plays completely differently in front of good goaltending. Id rather get Pesche and or Tanev and a goalie for the Brodie, Samsonov,Bert dump. Who will pay Bert $5.5 Million? He will want that cash just like they all do. I think we go back to 3 lines and a killer 4th line next year. Cowan can make 3rd line and help while being cheap.

1specter said:
Don't want to see Sammy on this team ever again.
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They wasted a year on him and he never had it. 6 and 14.

BraveCanadian said:
Welcome to Leafs-ville.
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6 and 14. Cant hide those stats..ouch.
 
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theTTC said:
Sammy had to earn a shutout for Leafs to win this game. Think about that. He didn't get the shutout so he's a useless loser? WTF???
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He's not a useless loser but he deserves all the criticism for allowing a goal because of mentally crumbling on a muffin less than 2 minutes after we get the lead that an average OHL goalie would be able to stop. He doesn't instill confidence in the group. Everyone keeps looking at it in a vacuum. If the Leafs got a first period lead he would just fold in the first instead. Play like that makes the rest of the team feel hopeless
 
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What a lot of you defending Samsonov are not getting is it's not about his save %. It's about the fact that when he faces pressure he can't deal with it. What you're missing is if Hampus even fired a beach ball at him after they got the lead he wouldn't have stopped it. That's our point not the fact he let in 2 shots.
 
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Sammy wasn't great in the first 4 games. He wasn't unplayble like earlier in the season, but he wasnt stellar.

Joe Woll was stellar in his 2 games & 1 period in relief. Too bad the guy just cant stay healthy, I'm not sure how much faith we can place in him next year. Not because of his abilities, but because he can't stay healthy. Kinda like Danny Jansen on the Jays.

I think they have to trade one big contract and use part of that cap space to sign a #1 goalie. no reclamation projects or someone else's backup.
 
You guys are literally just making things up now.. oh he's weak and mentally crumbling while letting in... *checks notes* one regulation goal in game 7 coming in cold after losing his job..

Get real.

All our goalies are bandaids because our cap structure is screwed. Expecting these guys to be better than a robotic prime Hasek and literally never let in a goal that it is humanly possible to save is just dumb. Blaming goaltending every year because our 4 x 10 million dollar forwards can't get us more than 2 goals a game is dumb.

A team with an average powerplay and offense wins this series 10 times out of 10.
 
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If you took Samsonov and plugged in Colorado’s goal support for the first four games the Bruins would have been out in 4 games. He’s a cheaper goalie who would have done a passable job if the high octane offense and skill this build was premised on was able to deliver on its basic design.

However, the core group never seems capable of delivering anything resembling the offense they were designed for so the focus shifts onto the support players and all of a sudden we act like Sammy was supposed to be a Vezina caliber goalie for us to have a shot.

However, there is the predictability and confidence piece which Sammy doesn’t really deliver on. So I would be fine if they moved off of him and invested real money in the kind of goalie they actually require to have success.
 
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Stephen said:
If you took Samsonov and plugged in Colorado’s goal support for the first four games the Bruins would have been out in 4 games. He’s a cheaper goalie who would have done a passable job if the high octane offense and skill this build was premised on was able to deliver on its basic design.

However, the core group never seems capable of delivering anything resembling the offense they were designed for so the focus shifts onto the support players and all of a sudden we act like Sammy was supposed to be a Vezina caliber goalie for us to have a shot.

However, there is the predictability and confidence piece which Sammy doesn’t really deliver on. So I would be fine if they moved off of him and invested real money in the kind of goalie they actually require to have success.
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Idk why you constantly refer to this sort of reasoning. It's not a math equation or algebra 101 it's real humans and the human in question let in back breaking goals at key times multiple times this series (most notably when Marchand was jostling with Bertuzzi and the play continued and first goal last night) not because of a deficiency in skill but because of a lack of composure. It's not a case of a deflection or a shot too good that beat him. It was him being unable to deal with the pressure of closing out a win which led to a goal less than 2 minutes after we got the lead. Based on this what makes you believe he wouldn't crumble if we had gotten the lead at different stages of the game and we'd lose 5-4 instead of 2-1?
 
ruaware41 said:
Idk why you constantly refer to this sort of reasoning. It's not a math equation or algebra 101 it's real humans and the human in question let in back breaking goals at key times multiple times this series (most notably when Marchand was jostling with Bertuzzi and the play continued and first goal last night) not because of a deficiency in skill but because of a lack of composure. It's not a case of a deflection or a shot too good that beat him. It was him being unable to deal with the pressure of closing out a win which led to a goal less than 2 minutes after we got the lead. Based on this what makes you believe he wouldn't crumble if we had gotten the lead at different stages of the game and we'd lose 5-4 instead of 2-1?
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Colorado scored 304 goals and Toronto scored 303 goals in the regular season. So if our offensive talent was actually reliable we would have gotten a lot more of a margin for Sammy to be a leaky cheap goalie and still won the series.

Once all that offense dried up there wasn’t any margin for a goalie to make a mistake. And for the Toronto Boston series to come down to 1 OT goal, so much else had to go wrong for Toronto.
 
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BraveCanadian said:
All our goalies are bandaids because our cap structure is screwed. Expecting these guys to be better than a robotic prime Hasek and literally never let in a goal that it is humanly possible to save is just dumb. Blaming goaltending every year because our 4 x 10 million dollar forwards can't get us more than 2 goals a game is dumb.

A team with an average powerplay and offense wins this series 10 times out of 10.
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Impossible to argue against this.
 
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Stephen said:
Colorado scored 304 goals and Toronto scored 303 goals in the regular season. So if our offensive talent was actually reliable we would have gotten a lot more of a margin for Sammy to be a leaky cheap goalie and still won the series.

Once all that offense dried up there wasn’t any margin for a goalie to make a mistake. And for the Toronto Boston series to come down to 1 OT goal, so much else had to go wrong for Toronto.
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I think you have more faith in him than I do. The first goal he let in was so so so bad and amateur on a complete muffin by a guy who almost never scores that I simply can't believe he wouldn't also fold every other time we got the lead on a much better shot. After a goal like that in game 7 he just has to go. It's hard for the offence to push and take chances when they have no trust in their goalie. The offence also sucked but there's no excuse to let that goal in and if he let that in due to lack of skill he would've never made the NHL.
 
Make a play for Swayman.
Stephen said:
Colorado scored 304 goals and Toronto scored 303 goals in the regular season. So if our offensive talent was actually reliable we would have gotten a lot more of a margin for Sammy to be a leaky cheap goalie and still won the series.

Once all that offense dried up there wasn’t any margin for a goalie to make a mistake. And for the Toronto Boston series to come down to 1 OT goal, so much else had to go wrong for Toronto.
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Yeah, the Leafs offense just isnt capable to shift into playoffs mode. The scoring consistency from the star players has always been an issue.

Granted, this year the bizarre mysterious injuries to Nylander & Matthews contributed to the issue, but Marner, Tavares, Bertuzzi & Domi scored a goal each in 7 games, Matthews 1 goal in 5 and nothing from Rielly our supposed offensive D.

Sad part is that it they were this close to winning it, had they gotten a save or two in the first 3 out of 4 games and also stayed out of the box.

I'm hoping to see some major changes on the roster and the coaching/front office.
 
ruaware41 said:
I think you have more faith in him than I do. The first goal he let in was so so so bad and amateur on a complete muffin by a guy who almost never scores that I simply can't believe he wouldn't also fold every other time we got the lead on a much better shot. After a goal like that in game 7 he just has to go. It's hard for the offence to push and take chances when they have no trust in their goalie. The offence also sucked but there's no excuse to let that goal in and if he let that in due to lack of skill he would've never made the NHL.
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I don’t have any faith in Samsonov and I don’t want him back. But the blame goes to 16, 34, 91, 88 and 44 well before the budget Russian goalie because it’s always been that group that has failed to be the stars we need them. Within that group there are obviously guys who deserve more blame than others. But as a group of cornerstone players, they failed to do their job. I might be happy to walk away from the spare parts but I’m not raking them over the coals when we know who is to be blamed for the same failure year after year.
 
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MK78 said:
Make a play for Swayman.
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We did and chose Scott instead.

Now? Impossible. On principle, we're not going cap in hand to our archnemesis, moreover on the heels of having lost to said team and target and moreover when...there is no play for him.

We have nothing the Bruins want, and what we do have that they might want, they have the good sense to stay away from it because they're interested in championships and a robust championship culture, not in rewarding, or honoring contracts without merit.
 
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A1LeafNation said:
Sammy many not have lost his job bc of game 7, but he lost his job bc of games 1-4.
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He lost his job partly because of his play and the fact that his team did nothing for him. I bet he wants to leave the Leafs

Pathetic bunch couldn't muster more than 2 goals last 13 of 14 games
 
BraveCanadian said:
You guys are literally just making things up now.. oh he's weak and mentally crumbling while letting in... *checks notes* one regulation goal in game 7 coming in cold after losing his job..

Get real.

All our goalies are bandaids because our cap structure is screwed. Expecting these guys to be better than a robotic prime Hasek and literally never let in a goal that it is humanly possible to save is just dumb. Blaming goaltending every year because our 4 x 10 million dollar forwards can't get us more than 2 goals a game is dumb.

A team with an average powerplay and offense wins this series 10 times out of 10.
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100% true.

The team gambled years back the core 4 + Rielly can win a cup based on pure run and gun offence. Like going back to the 80s/90s and Oilers and Penguins were racking up goals at will. Who care if the team lets in 3 or 4 goals when the team can score 5 or 6.

The annual strategy was relying on the core players, then praying they could find the right support cast for $2-5M each at F, D, or G to put them over the top. And none of them have. And the core 4 as whole flame out too. So unsurprisingly, that means first round exit almost every time.

The last time a hockey team won the cup on pure offence is probably the Oilers/Pens days. That was 35-40 years ago. You need some kind of half decent and reliable defence and goaltending at minimum. They dont have to be Hall of Famers, but at least string together a good season. Nobody would say Darcy Kuemper is HoF, but he played solid enough for Avs to win.

The modern day Oilers are the exact same boat as Leafs. The key difference is that Skinner has played well this year, so it looks like they've found that year a goalie looks good.
 
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